A General Manager IS that though. THAT's my point. If Caldwell did his job as a General Manager and properly added the right pieces to the roster and the right people to the coaching staff he wouldn't have had to have worried about Khan going to Coughlin to come in behind him and hope that he fixed the issues that were generated BECAUSE of Caldwell. 

That's the biggest problem right now with our team. Caldwell is a left over from Bradley. Marrone and Wash are all left over's from Bradley's era as well. You can't change the culture nor the identity here when you continue to hold onto left overs that have failed you over and over again. Something isn't adding up. 

Until we see a clean sweep of past regimes here I highly doubt anything will change. We've passed on opportunities to land better General Managers and Coaches while holding onto people like Caldwell and Bradley's left overs for nearly 7 - 8 years. That's really, really bad management.

They are not going to understand what you are saying but you are 1000% correct. Caldwell must have something on Shad or Shad just feels like he will use a different approach feeling he will give Dave time to [BLEEP] up and improve rather than just get rid of him after 3 to 4 years. The problem is, is that Caldwell keeps [BLEEP] up the time given, he has showed no improvement. I am starting believe the only reason for the 2017 season was because of Coughlin. Coughlin, just got to involved because he saw Dave not doing [BLEEP]. THE ANSWER IN SIMPLE GET RID OF DAVE CALDWELL and try someone else

Or Shad looks at the team and thinks "Geez, Dave sure did bring in a bunch of really talented players over the years, and he looked after expenses pretty well too." The groceries were fine, the chef has been terrible. This team was in good shape talent-wise and with the salary cap when Coughlin got here and "opened up Shad's wallet", kinda like 1999 all over again. For the record, I would've fired Marrone already and am on the fence about Caldwell, but the fact remains that this team was pretty talented on paper in 2017 before the culture stuff started being a problem, and that problem is all on Coughlin as the NFLPA rightly noted.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

This team drives me to drink. As if I didn’t already drink too much last night.. work today is gonna be hell boys.

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For all the complaints, saw an interesting article that noted the Jaguars had the highest payroll expense.

Cowboys were lowest.

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Birth of the Franchise - November 30, 1993
Death of the Franchise - November 29, 2011

Fans deserve better. Thanks for all the good times too many are in the past.

How about on the field, purposely getting 15 yard penalties by taunting the opponent when he ran back a fumble or INT?  He stated after the games that he would continue the taunting policy even if it resulted in giving the opponent field position on the 40 after the ensuing kickoff.  Who cares about the team, he wants to taunt when he makes a play and nobody's going to tell him different.  It's cancerous.

Lol you must not be watching the NFL then.

They literally have choreographed dances after they score.... which is taunting but they just don’t call it. Telvin had issues no doubt but it was in the locker room and not on the field.

You are incorrect.  The penalties were issued ON THE FIELD. 
And I do watch the NFL, I observe the choreographed celebrations, and I observe they are not penalized.  Telvin knew the difference yet CHOSE to draw the penalty each time by taunting ON THE FIELD.

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They are not going to understand what you are saying but you are 1000% correct. Caldwell must have something on Shad or Shad just feels like he will use a different approach feeling he will give Dave time to [BLEEP] up and improve rather than just get rid of him after 3 to 4 years. The problem is, is that Caldwell keeps [BLEEP] up the time given, he has showed no improvement. I am starting believe the only reason for the 2017 season was because of Coughlin. Coughlin, just got to involved because he saw Dave not doing [BLEEP]. THE ANSWER IN SIMPLE GET RID OF DAVE CALDWELL and try someone else

Or Shad looks at the team and thinks "Geez, Dave sure did bring in a bunch of really talented players over the years, and he looked after expenses pretty well too." The groceries were fine, the chef has been terrible. This team was in good shape talent-wise and with the salary cap when Coughlin got here and "opened up Shad's wallet", kinda like 1999 all over again. For the record, I would've fired Marrone already and am on the fence about Caldwell, but the fact remains that this team was pretty talented on paper in 2017 before the culture stuff started being a problem, and that problem is all on Coughlin as the NFLPA rightly noted.

We had 1 winning season since 2013 when Dave became the GM, the only winning season we had was when Coughlin got here. He lost before Coughlin, 7 yearsa is enough to for someone to show you, no matter what little unforeseen issues may have caused whatever, you have to be accountable. Ok he may be decent a scouting players but terrible at everything else. Stop giving him excuses, we as fans want to see the team win, the players want to win. With Dave at the GM that is not happening. We should try someone else. Would you get 6 years at your current position to [BLEEP] up if you 1 good year?  Why would this job be any different? GM is supposed to select the right people to do the correct things, that they cant do. If they don't work out its on you.. that is all I am saying

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Or Shad looks at the team and thinks "Geez, Dave sure did bring in a bunch of really talented players over the years, and he looked after expenses pretty well too." The groceries were fine, the chef has been terrible. This team was in good shape talent-wise and with the salary cap when Coughlin got here and "opened up Shad's wallet", kinda like 1999 all over again. For the record, I would've fired Marrone already and am on the fence about Caldwell, but the fact remains that this team was pretty talented on paper in 2017 before the culture stuff started being a problem, and that problem is all on Coughlin as the NFLPA rightly noted.

We had 1 winning season since 2013 when Dave became the GM, the only winning season we had was when Coughlin got here. He lost before Coughlin, 7 yearsa is enough to for someone to show you, no matter what little unforeseen issues may have caused whatever, you have to be accountable. Ok he may be decent a scouting players but terrible at everything else. Stop giving him excuses, we as fans want to see the team win, the players want to win. With Dave at the GM that is not happening. We should try someone else. Would you get 6 years at your current position to [BLEEP] up if you 1 good year?  Why would this job be any different? GM is supposed to select the right people to do the correct things, that they cant do. If they don't work out its on you.. that is all I am saying

I understand your frustration, but Caldwell did his job. The first coach (a roundly lauded hire btw) failed him. The EVP ruined the roster and culture. The second coach isn't particularly good. Did Caldwell keep Bradley on or was it the owner? Was Marrone a Caldwell hire or was it Coughlin? Personally I think Caldwell's work has been very good, because the players are, again, highly praised coming in and then -poof- they go in the tank. And the one thing he doesn't control, and what everyone wants to fire him for, is what happens once he gets them here. If this roster were given to someone like Carroll, or Reich, McVay, or Payton we'd be a dynasty. Instead we got Bobblehead and Bologna Marrona. Ain't no roster winning with that and we all know it.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

We had 1 winning season since 2013 when Dave became the GM, the only winning season we had was when Coughlin got here. He lost before Coughlin, 7 yearsa is enough to for someone to show you, no matter what little unforeseen issues may have caused whatever, you have to be accountable. Ok he may be decent a scouting players but terrible at everything else. Stop giving him excuses, we as fans want to see the team win, the players want to win. With Dave at the GM that is not happening. We should try someone else. Would you get 6 years at your current position to [BLEEP] up if you 1 good year?  Why would this job be any different? GM is supposed to select the right people to do the correct things, that they cant do. If they don't work out its on you.. that is all I am saying

I understand your frustration, but Caldwell did his job. The first coach (a roundly lauded hire btw) failed him. The EVP ruined the roster and culture. The second coach isn't particularly good. Did Caldwell keep Bradley on or was it the owner? Was Marrone a Caldwell hire or was it Coughlin? Personally I think Caldwell's work has been very good, because the players are, again, highly praised coming in and then -poof- they go in the tank. And the one thing he doesn't control, and what everyone wants to fire him for, is what happens once he gets them here. If this roster were given to someone like Carroll, or Reich, McVay, or Payton we'd be a dynasty. Instead we got Bobblehead and Bologna Marrona. Ain't no roster winning with that and we all know it.

It takes many systems of failure to get the results we have had since Caldwell was hired as GM. 

It's not *just* coaching , nor is it *just* the FO. Both have done very poor jobs from 2013 to present day

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Coughlin turned this franchise around.

It rolled into 2017 with some solid drafts and the cap under control and caught several lucky breaks (schedule, injuries to other team's QBs, no injuries here) on the way to the AFC title game which the incompetent Balogna Marrona (likely a Coughlin hire) blew by sitting on a lead in Foxboro.

Had they left well enough alone with Caldwell, we'd be fine.

It was all Coughlin- lousy coaching hire, unhappy players, people walking on eggshells and the brink of cap hell again.

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Season Ticket holder since 2004.

 

        

I understand your frustration, but Caldwell did his job. The first coach (a roundly lauded hire btw) failed him. The EVP ruined the roster and culture. The second coach isn't particularly good. Did Caldwell keep Bradley on or was it the owner? Was Marrone a Caldwell hire or was it Coughlin? Personally I think Caldwell's work has been very good, because the players are, again, highly praised coming in and then -poof- they go in the tank. And the one thing he doesn't control, and what everyone wants to fire him for, is what happens once he gets them here. If this roster were given to someone like Carroll, or Reich, McVay, or Payton we'd be a dynasty. Instead we got Bobblehead and Bologna Marrona. Ain't no roster winning with that and we all know it.

It takes many systems of failure to get the results we have had since Caldwell was hired as GM. 

It's not *just* coaching , nor is it *just* the FO. Both have done very poor jobs from 2013 to present day

Wrong.

Coughlin turned this franchise around.

It rolled into 2017 with some solid drafts and the cap under control and caught several lucky breaks (schedule, injuries to other team's QBs, no injuries here) on the way to the AFC title game which the incompetent Balogna Marrona (likely a Coughlin hire) blew by sitting on a lead in Foxboro.

Had they left well enough alone with Caldwell, we'd be fine.

It was all Coughlin- lousy coaching hire, unhappy players, people walking on eggshells and the brink of cap hell again.

Right.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

It takes many systems of failure to get the results we have had since Caldwell was hired as GM. 

It's not *just* coaching , nor is it *just* the FO. Both have done very poor jobs from 2013 to present day

Wrong.

Where do you rank Caldwell out of the current GMs in the league?

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Wrong.

Where do you rank Caldwell out of the current GMs in the league?

He's at the minimum in the low 20's. That's just a starting point. I don't give two [BLEEP] what anybody thinks about the "talent" he selected. You are what your record says you are. And that record speaks (negatively) for itself. 

Even if you want to state that Gus Bradley was Khan's move and NOT Caldwell's. That still doesn't erase the poor selections made in 2014 (I'll start with 2014 since everyone likes to use 2013 as an excuse that it was horrible, which, to an extent I'll agree with) and 2015. 2016 was his biggest claim to fame but now that's turning into a brick with the Ramsey trade, Jack extension playing out of position and Ngakoue pretty much denouncing this team publicly to get the [BLEEP] out of here (All Coughlin's fault I am sure since that's what we've been told around here). 

He's just not good at his job. I still harp on it. And I'll continue to harp on it. But the Bortles selection and failure there is normally what does any General Manager in. It's rare a General Manager selects a QB that high and lives to see another day after that signal caller fails and is released from the team. Usually those two jobs are joined at the hip. Somehow though, that's Coughlins fault I am sure. Even though you can make the argument that Coughlin was hired because Caldwell couldn't handle it all in the first place.

It's just exceedingly frustrating to be a fan of this team. When we're stuck with holdovers from 2013 that have been here every step of the way tripping this franchise up. And now here we are in the doorstep of a draft with multiple picks that are more than likely going to be utilized to back fill positions because everybody's dumb [BLEEP] ego got in the way of things inside that building. 

The General Manager sucks. The Coaching sucks. And Ownership certainly sucks the most out of this group. 

But hey. . . make sure you renew your [BLEEP] folks. Otherwise they're shipping across the pond at some point. It's some passive aggressive B.S if you ask me. But to each their own.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Where do you rank Caldwell out of the current GMs in the league?

He's at the minimum in the low 20's. That's just a starting point. I don't give two [BLEEP] what anybody thinks about the "talent" he selected. You are what your record says you are. And that record speaks (negatively) for itself. 

Even if you want to state that Gus Bradley was Khan's move and NOT Caldwell's. That still doesn't erase the poor selections made in 2014 (I'll start with 2014 since everyone likes to use 2013 as an excuse that it was horrible, which, to an extent I'll agree with) and 2015. 2016 was his biggest claim to fame but now that's turning into a brick with the Ramsey trade, Jack extension playing out of position and Ngakoue pretty much denouncing this team publicly to get the [BLEEP] out of here (All Coughlin's fault I am sure since that's what we've been told around here). 

He's just not good at his job. I still harp on it. And I'll continue to harp on it. But the Bortles selection and failure there is normally what does any General Manager in. It's rare a General Manager selects a QB that high and lives to see another day after that signal caller fails and is released from the team. Usually those two jobs are joined at the hip. Somehow though, that's Coughlins fault I am sure. Even though you can make the argument that Coughlin was hired because Caldwell couldn't handle it all in the first place.

It's just exceedingly frustrating to be a fan of this team. When we're stuck with holdovers from 2013 that have been here every step of the way tripping this franchise up. And now here we are in the doorstep of a draft with multiple picks that are more than likely going to be utilized to back fill positions because everybody's dumb [BLEEP] ego got in the way of things inside that building. 

The General Manager sucks. The Coaching sucks. And Ownership certainly sucks the most out of this group. 

But hey. . . make sure you renew your [BLEEP] folks. Otherwise they're shipping across the pond at some point. It's some passive aggressive B.S if you ask me. But to each their own.

I think folks just don't follow other teams enough to know what good rosters/front offices look like so they assume Caldwell is good just from two drafts. 

He'd have been fired and let go from pretty much any other organization yet here he's given multiple chances. Anyway, let's just hope he hits it out of the park the season, lord knows he has enough capital to do so

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Coughlin turned this franchise around.

It rolled into 2017 with some solid drafts and the cap under control and caught several lucky breaks (schedule, injuries to other team's QBs, no injuries here) on the way to the AFC title game which the incompetent Balogna Marrona (likely a Coughlin hire) blew by sitting on a lead in Foxboro.

Had they left well enough alone with Caldwell, we'd be fine.

It was all Coughlin- lousy coaching hire, unhappy players, people walking on eggshells and the brink of cap hell again.

I have to agree although I supported the hire at the time and still consider him a HOF head coach. Being an executive is different though and the techniques he used in his coaching capacity clearly didn't serve him well in that position.

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I'm condescending. That means I talk down to you. 
Check out the Jag's Forum Alternative: Duval Football Fans.

He's at the minimum in the low 20's. That's just a starting point. I don't give two [BLEEP] what anybody thinks about the "talent" he selected. You are what your record says you are. And that record speaks (negatively) for itself. 

Even if you want to state that Gus Bradley was Khan's move and NOT Caldwell's. That still doesn't erase the poor selections made in 2014 (I'll start with 2014 since everyone likes to use 2013 as an excuse that it was horrible, which, to an extent I'll agree with) and 2015. 2016 was his biggest claim to fame but now that's turning into a brick with the Ramsey trade, Jack extension playing out of position and Ngakoue pretty much denouncing this team publicly to get the [BLEEP] out of here (All Coughlin's fault I am sure since that's what we've been told around here). 

He's just not good at his job. I still harp on it. And I'll continue to harp on it. But the Bortles selection and failure there is normally what does any General Manager in. It's rare a General Manager selects a QB that high and lives to see another day after that signal caller fails and is released from the team. Usually those two jobs are joined at the hip. Somehow though, that's Coughlins fault I am sure. Even though you can make the argument that Coughlin was hired because Caldwell couldn't handle it all in the first place.

It's just exceedingly frustrating to be a fan of this team. When we're stuck with holdovers from 2013 that have been here every step of the way tripping this franchise up. And now here we are in the doorstep of a draft with multiple picks that are more than likely going to be utilized to back fill positions because everybody's dumb [BLEEP] ego got in the way of things inside that building. 

The General Manager sucks. The Coaching sucks. And Ownership certainly sucks the most out of this group. 

But hey. . . make sure you renew your [BLEEP] folks. Otherwise they're shipping across the pond at some point. It's some passive aggressive B.S if you ask me. But to each their own.

I think folks just don't follow other teams enough to know what good rosters/front offices look like so they assume Caldwell is good just from two drafts. 

He'd have been fired and let go from pretty much any other organization yet here he's given multiple chances. Anyway, let's just hope he hits it out of the park the season, lord knows he has enough capital to do so

Bull, any other organization would've fired Bobblehead in year 3. Any other organization wouldn't have kept Marrone. Khan and Coughlin, too patient and too obsolete.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

I think folks just don't follow other teams enough to know what good rosters/front offices look like so they assume Caldwell is good just from two drafts. 

He'd have been fired and let go from pretty much any other organization yet here he's given multiple chances. Anyway, let's just hope he hits it out of the park the season, lord knows he has enough capital to do so

Bull, any other organization would've fired Bobblehead in year 3. Any other organization wouldn't have kept Marrone. Khan and Coughlin, too patient and too obsolete.

That's actually the point. The organisation continually doesn't fire people when it's supposed to and is too patient with bad staff. 

That includes Caldwell

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Bull, any other organization would've fired Bobblehead in year 3. Any other organization wouldn't have kept Marrone. Khan and Coughlin, too patient and too obsolete.

That's actually the point. The organisation continually doesn't fire people when it's supposed to and is too patient with bad staff. 

That includes Caldwell

And there's the rub, we disagree that Caldwell is bad.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

That's actually the point. The organisation continually doesn't fire people when it's supposed to and is too patient with bad staff. 

That includes Caldwell

And there's the rub, we disagree that Caldwell is bad.

Caldwell isn't bad. You're right. He's worse than bad. He's:



Caldwell's cult followers on draft night:

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

That's actually the point. The organisation continually doesn't fire people when it's supposed to and is too patient with bad staff. 

That includes Caldwell

And there's the rub, we disagree that Caldwell is bad.

That's why I asked you where you ranked him in the NFL out of the current GMs

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And there's the rub, we disagree that Caldwell is bad.

That's why I asked you where you ranked him in the NFL out of the current GMs

Somewhere 16 to 20. I like what he's done more than teams in the bottom half like the Cardinals, Jets, Redskins, Lions, and Bengals but he's not in the bracket with the upper tier guys by any means. I think the problem with this team was and is the coaching, bringing Coughlin in made the front office and culture worse and didn't help the coaching any IMO.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Unbelievable that there's people who still defend Caldwell.

People always defending mediocrity around here.

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