Tannehill and draft Haskins. Start Tannehill and let Haskins sit and learn.

Foles for that kind of money was always a terrible move. Sign Tannehill for cheap.

Also you just said the team has gotten worse. They peaked in his first season (riding a wave of great luck and backup QBs) and have gotten worse ever since.

This team will most likely be bad again this year and so they’ll fire Marrone a year after they should have. If the never ending cycle of the Jags waiting too long to cut bait when the choice is so obvious.

So you would sacrifice Allen for Haskins?  Interesting.  Tannehill would have been an interesting choice, but I don't think he was the difference between us having a winning season or not.  I think last year we end up losing with Tannehill and everyone concludes he wasn't the answer.  In Tennessee, he had everything around him to succeed with minimal production from him.  He had a strong running game and a good group of receivers and a typically tough defense.  I don't see him carrying a team.

Yeah, the team did get worse since 2017.  Not all of that falls on Marrone.

I fault Marrone for his response to that season by firing some very good assistants.  I expressed concerns at the time those firings were made and I haven't changed my mind since (though the Gruden hiring is promising).

Not all of it falls on Caldwell.  Caldwell drafted talented players.  TC traded two of them away.

Not all of it falls on TC, though he was the first to be fired for it.

TC got good free agents here, but then alienated four contributors (Robinson, Ramsey, Fowler and Yan).  Three of them are gone, and one is trying deaperately to leave.

Will Marrone likely be fired after a losing year this year?  Probably.  I think Caldwell has more rope, but both are on short leashes I think.

I just hope if either or both are fired, they are upgraded, and the team is able to draft AND RETAIN top tier talent and freaking win!  I'm not talking  a few game winning streak.  I'm not talking one season of winning.  I'm talking sustained winning...that excites the city into buying season tickets and fans into buying merchandising, winning a Super Bowl or three.

Had TC not been called out by the NFLPA he'd still be here.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Damn man, glad you're not the GM.  Dave got a better QB in the 6th and we wouldn't have Allen

Well hindsight is 2020 right? We all know I was on the Haskins train and he finished the season strong last year. And do we really want to get into all the decisions you would have made at GM? You would have had Tebow as the QB.....

It’s great to have Allen now but he’s not going to a SB unless the Jags find a QB.

Hell, I know I shudder to think of the ramifications of some of my recs.  Hell, we've SEEN them (Foles).

I cant knock you too bad for your proposed QB approach even if I don't think Tannehill would have been the answer.

But I will ask you about one result of your actions.

Had we taken those two players instead of Allen, this team would have absolutely zero leverage in the Ngakoue negotiations. 

Without Allen, do you pay Yan what he wants or limit your offer to him to what is currently on the table?

Anyone else feel free to answer the question, because there is no shortage of people on this board who relied on the fact we had Allen as justification for letting Yan walk.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

So you would sacrifice Allen for Haskins?  Interesting.  Tannehill would have been an interesting choice, but I don't think he was the difference between us having a winning season or not.  I think last year we end up losing with Tannehill and everyone concludes he wasn't the answer.  In Tennessee, he had everything around him to succeed with minimal production from him.  He had a strong running game and a good group of receivers and a typically tough defense.  I don't see him carrying a team.

Yeah, the team did get worse since 2017.  Not all of that falls on Marrone.

I fault Marrone for his response to that season by firing some very good assistants.  I expressed concerns at the time those firings were made and I haven't changed my mind since (though the Gruden hiring is promising).

Not all of it falls on Caldwell.  Caldwell drafted talented players.  TC traded two of them away.

Not all of it falls on TC, though he was the first to be fired for it.

TC got good free agents here, but then alienated four contributors (Robinson, Ramsey, Fowler and Yan).  Three of them are gone, and one is trying deaperately to leave.

Will Marrone likely be fired after a losing year this year?  Probably.  I think Caldwell has more rope, but both are on short leashes I think.

I just hope if either or both are fired, they are upgraded, and the team is able to draft AND RETAIN top tier talent and freaking win!  I'm not talking  a few game winning streak.  I'm not talking one season of winning.  I'm talking sustained winning...that excites the city into buying season tickets and fans into buying merchandising, winning a Super Bowl or three.

Had TC not been called out by the NFLPA he'd still be here.

Not according to Khan. 

If we took Khan at his word, TC would have been dismissed/allowed to leave after the season.  The separation with TC was hastened by the NFLPA revelations.

Plans were for Coughlin to retire at season's end, according to NFL Network Insider Ian Rapoport, but obviously those plans did not come to fruition.

According to Khan's statement, the plan to part ways with Coughlin was a longtime coming that suddenly found its conclusion this week.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001...operations

I believe the plan was to let TC retire was based in large part on the whole Ramsey fiasco, and perhaps in part on how Ngakoue was handled.

Khan's stance was always that he wanted to keep Ramsey, and tried to get everyone together to hash out those differences.  The team's stance has always been it wanted to retain Ngakoue.

TC was the catalyst in both of those situations, which explains why he was gone one way or another while DM and DC were retained.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Well hindsight is 2020 right? We all know I was on the Haskins train and he finished the season strong last year. And do we really want to get into all the decisions you would have made at GM? You would have had Tebow as the QB.....

It’s great to have Allen now but he’s not going to a SB unless the Jags find a QB.

Hell, I know I shudder to think of the ramifications of some of my recs.  Helll, we've SEEN them (Foles).

I cant knock you too bad for your proposed QB approach even if I don't think Tannehill would have been the answer.

But I will ask you about one result of your actions.

Had we taken those two players instead of Allen, this team would have absolutely zero leverage in the Ngakoue negotiations. 

Without Allen, do you pay Yan what he wants or limit your offer to him to what is currently on the table?

Anyone else feel free to answer the question, because there is no shortage of people on this board who relied on the fact we had Allen as justification for letting Yan walk.

Well if we are doing hindisight, I would have paid Yan before the 2019 season even began but that’s for another day.

Taking Haskins in 2019 completely alters the draft. Who knows what our 2nd rounder becomes which has a trickle down effect for the rest of the draft. In my Message Board draft last year I had the Jags. I selected McLaurin, Tytus Howard and David Montgomery in rounds 2/3. So the Jags would have had 2 young and ascending WRs (Chark and Mclaurin), a RT and a complete RB so they can move on from Fournette.

Not having Allen is a bummer but having a potential franchise QB surrounded by young weapons they can grow with is a better situation IMO.

Now the opinion on Haskins varies greatly but this was my plan before the 2019 season.

---

Hell, I know I shudder to think of the ramifications of some of my recs.  Helll, we've SEEN them (Foles).

I cant knock you too bad for your proposed QB approach even if I don't think Tannehill would have been the answer.

But I will ask you about one result of your actions.

Had we taken those two players instead of Allen, this team would have absolutely zero leverage in the Ngakoue negotiations. 

Without Allen, do you pay Yan what he wants or limit your offer to him to what is currently on the table?

Anyone else feel free to answer the question, because there is no shortage of people on this board who relied on the fact we had Allen as justification for letting Yan walk.

Well if we are doing hindisight, I would have paid Yan before the 2019 season even began but that’s for another day.

Taking Haskins in 2019 completely alters the draft. Who knows what our 2nd rounder becomes which has a trickle down effect for the rest of the draft. In my Message Board draft last year I had the Jags. I selected McLaurin, Tytus Howard and David Montgomery in rounds 2/3. So the Jags would have had 2 young and ascending WRs (Chark and Mclaurin), a RT and a complete RB so they can move on from Fournette.

Not having Allen is a bummer but having a potential franchise QB surrounded by young weapons they can grow with is a better situation IMO.

Now the opinion on Haskins varies greatly but this was my plan before the 2019 season.

Agreed completely on taking care of Yan well before now.

But now I can't stop thinking of all of the potential dominoes that fall.

If you don't draft Allen and keep Yan, do we still switch to a 3-4?

While Campbell and Dareus still carry large cap numbers and advancing age. if we signed Tannehill to a lower dollar contract than we gave Foles, then maybe the salary cap wouldn't have been in such bad shape (though perhaps had we re-signed Yan, that effect would have been lessened).  

Do you still trade Campbell or try to keep him?  What of Bouye?


Jeez.  This discussion reinforces the idea these decisions can't be taken in a vacuum.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

So you would sacrifice Allen for Haskins?  Interesting.  Tannehill would have been an interesting choice, but I don't think he was the difference between us having a winning season or not.  I think last year we end up losing with Tannehill and everyone concludes he wasn't the answer.  In Tennessee, he had everything around him to succeed with minimal production from him.  He had a strong running game and a good group of receivers and a typically tough defense.  I don't see him carrying a team.

Yeah, the team did get worse since 2017.  Not all of that falls on Marrone.

I fault Marrone for his response to that season by firing some very good assistants.  I expressed concerns at the time those firings were made and I haven't changed my mind since (though the Gruden hiring is promising).

Not all of it falls on Caldwell.  Caldwell drafted talented players.  TC traded two of them away.

Not all of it falls on TC, though he was the first to be fired for it.

TC got good free agents here, but then alienated four contributors (Robinson, Ramsey, Fowler and Yan).  Three of them are gone, and one is trying deaperately to leave.

Will Marrone likely be fired after a losing year this year?  Probably.  I think Caldwell has more rope, but both are on short leashes I think.

I just hope if either or both are fired, they are upgraded, and the team is able to draft AND RETAIN top tier talent and freaking win!  I'm not talking  a few game winning streak.  I'm not talking one season of winning.  I'm talking sustained winning...that excites the city into buying season tickets and fans into buying merchandising, winning a Super Bowl or three.

Had TC not been called out by the NFLPA he'd still be here.

Nah he earlier was going to be made retire in the offseason. The NFLPA issue just forced their hand to part earlier

---

Had TC not been called out by the NFLPA he'd still be here.

Nah he earlier was going to be made retire in the offseason. The NFLPA issue just forced their hand to part earlier

Sure, sure, that's easy to say once he's gone. He would've been given one more chance just like the other two.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Nah he earlier was going to be made retire in the offseason. The NFLPA issue just forced their hand to part earlier

Sure, sure, that's easy to say once he's gone. He would've been given one more chance just like the other two.

No they'd already decided upon Tom leaving before the NFLPA, hadn't decided on Marrone and Dave yet

---

Sure, sure, that's easy to say once he's gone. He would've been given one more chance just like the other two.

No they'd already decided upon Tom leaving before the NFLPA, hadn't decided on Marrone and Dave yet

Yes, that is what they say.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

No they'd already decided upon Tom leaving before the NFLPA, hadn't decided on Marrone and Dave yet

Yes, that is what they say.

(that's not something they have said)

---

If a team is not successful after 2 or 3 seasons you don't just "blow it all up" Sure, you give awful HCs and GM at least 5 years, maybe more, depends on the excuses you can make up for them. Wait, let me guess, that's is not what you meant. You evaluate and determine where changes need to be made and make them Like what changes? Coordinators? Like when JDR had like 5 OCs and we still had a mediocre Offense?. 2 years was more than enough to know Bradley was a mistake. 3 years for Gene Smith. 3 years for Caldwell as well since he never had a winning season until TC arrived and did his job. 

Many fans wanna win now hahahahahahahaha can you blame them? DC record before TC was 15-49, if we want a record of all the years he's been here 36-76. Fans understand pretty well that if we get a new FO and coaching staff we are not gonna win right away, the thing is, WE DON'T WANNA STAY WITH WHAT WE KNOW IT DOESN'T WORK!

If we somehow manage to have a decent (doesn't mean winning season) season this year and next it will be thanks to Minshew, a Coughlin's guy, but I know some people will still give the credit to DC anyway and will be saying we need to extend him and we'll stay awful/mediocre for 3-4 more year, just the way you like it.

(Italics and underline added)

How did you determine Marrone is an "awful" coach?  Was it after he brought Buffalo their first winning season in a decade, or when he brought the Jaguars their first winning season in a decade?  Was it the next year, when the team was down to it's 4th LT by mid season?  BTW, that 4th LT wasn't even on the roster a the beginning of the season.  In fact, he was on our opponent's opening day roster as starting RT.  Or was it last year, when the starting QB was injured eleven (11) offensive plays into the season to be replaced by a rookie QB, and the started CB lost all patience with the team because of TC (among other possible reasons)? 

As for how long it takes to know if hring a coach was a mistake, given the state of our roster at the end of 2012 and the start of 2013, there was no way to definitively know Bradley was a mistake.  You could suspect it, yes.  But if you are basing it solely on W-L, NOBODY would have won with that roster. 

To illustrate

Consider the coach with the following records in his first 6 seasons as a head coach:

6-10
7-9
7-9
11-5
5-11
5-11

Only one (1) winning record in SIX (6) seasons-without even managing one playoff win?!?

Certainly he is not worthy to be a head coach, right?

Congrats. 

You would have canned or not hired  Bill freaking Beliichick.

Now I don't compare Marrone to Belichick-or any number of coaches most deem to be or have been great.

But what happened with Belichick after 2000?  Did he not know anything about coaching despite his father being a coach, despite him being a defensive coordinator for a decade under hall of fame coach Bill Parcells, and being head coach in Cleveland from 1991-1995?  Did he have to return to Parcells with the Jets to learn the how to coach?  If so, why didn't he win in 2000?  What happened between 2000 and 2001 to make him a coach capable of winning for 20 straight seasons, reaching Nine Super Bowls and winning six?

Want a hint? 

Guys named Tom Brady, Matt Light, and Richard Seymour.  I'm no expert, but I would say those guys were pretty important to their success, wouldn't you?  They were added to players like Troy Brown, Tedy Bruschi, Willie McGinest, Ty Law and Lawyer Millloy.


That nucleus enabled him to go on an unprecedented span of winning.

If a coach like Belichick needs talent to win, why should it be any different for Marrone? 

More importantly as it pertains to your analysis, if the team didn't win until TC arrived, then why didn't it continue to win while TC was still here?  If TC were the catalyst, and he was here for three years, shouldn't we be coming off three straight winning seasons?

While TCs contributions to the team helped (I credit him with bringing the key free agents aboard like Campbell, Bouye, and Church), there were plenty of Caldwell's picks that were catalysts on that 2017 team, including Ramsey, Bortles, Yann, Jack, Telvin Smith, et al.

Accordingly, it is quite possible that Khan legitimately thought that despite the disappointing records, neither Dace Caldwell mor Doug Marrone were completely blameworthy for the final results the past two years.

As for not waiting 3 years to move on from a coach deemed not good enough, the browns have had SEVEN (7) head coaches within the last decade.  Where has such instability gotten them?

I can't... I just can't...

That's what happened? so if you put Marrone instead of BB they still win 6 SBs? I forgot the Patriots are the only team in the NFL with talent in their roster (in some seasons because they've had seasons with mediocre talent in a lot of positions and still had winning seasons... I wonder why....). You say you are not comparing Marrone to BB, then why you posted all that?. BB is BB, not every coach can be like him. I am not old enough to know what happened in Cleveland but looking at those records it was either lack of talent, problems with the owner and/or BB was obviously not the same BB from now. You know, SOME people actually learn and improve from past experiences but others don't, you can give Bradley 20 years as a HC and he will never be at BB level. JDR had another chance with the Raiders and still ended up being the same he was here. 

I see that BB had 4 years before being a HC again, I bet he was (still is) pretty much obsessed with being a great HC, he spent a lot of time thinking about his time in Cleveland and what went wrong and what he should improve, not everyone is like that.

Bradley was awful. Marrone is mediocre. I am not gonna waste my time telling you why when it has been discussed for months in the MB, when it is obvious for any person who has watched all his games as the HC of the Jags, after the blowouts last year and awful awful defense and yet still keeping Wash. He was supposed to be a O-line specialist and ours has been mediocre at best and makes no effort to improve it.

Really his QB went down last year? so? BB (since you love talking about him) lost Brady too and still had a winning season with freaking Matt Cassel. You think Bortles is better than Foles? didn't Foles came back and we were worse with him?

I am done here. 
I hope all you people who defend DC and DM enjoy another losing season.

---

I am a fan, not a cheerleader.

(Italics and underline added)

How did you determine Marrone is an "awful" coach?  Was it after he brought Buffalo their first winning season in a decade, or when he brought the Jaguars their first winning season in a decade?  Was it the next year, when the team was down to it's 4th LT by mid season?  BTW, that 4th LT wasn't even on the roster a the beginning of the season.  In fact, he was on our opponent's opening day roster as starting RT.  Or was it last year, when the starting QB was injured eleven (11) offensive plays into the season to be replaced by a rookie QB, and the started CB lost all patience with the team because of TC (among other possible reasons)? 

As for how long it takes to know if hring a coach was a mistake, given the state of our roster at the end of 2012 and the start of 2013, there was no way to definitively know Bradley was a mistake.  You could suspect it, yes.  But if you are basing it solely on W-L, NOBODY would have won with that roster. 

To illustrate

Consider the coach with the following records in his first 6 seasons as a head coach:

6-10
7-9
7-9
11-5
5-11
5-11

Only one (1) winning record in SIX (6) seasons-without even managing one playoff win?!?

Certainly he is not worthy to be a head coach, right?

Congrats. 

You would have canned or not hired  Bill freaking Beliichick.

Now I don't compare Marrone to Belichick-or any number of coaches most deem to be or have been great.

But what happened with Belichick after 2000?  Did he not know anything about coaching despite his father being a coach, despite him being a defensive coordinator for a decade under hall of fame coach Bill Parcells, and being head coach in Cleveland from 1991-1995?  Did he have to return to Parcells with the Jets to learn the how to coach?  If so, why didn't he win in 2000?  What happened between 2000 and 2001 to make him a coach capable of winning for 20 straight seasons, reaching Nine Super Bowls and winning six?

Want a hint? 

Guys named Tom Brady, Matt Light, and Richard Seymour.  I'm no expert, but I would say those guys were pretty important to their success, wouldn't you?  They were added to players like Troy Brown, Tedy Bruschi, Willie McGinest, Ty Law and Lawyer Millloy.


That nucleus enabled him to go on an unprecedented span of winning.

If a coach like Belichick needs talent to win, why should it be any different for Marrone? 

More importantly as it pertains to your analysis, if the team didn't win until TC arrived, then why didn't it continue to win while TC was still here?  If TC were the catalyst, and he was here for three years, shouldn't we be coming off three straight winning seasons?

While TCs contributions to the team helped (I credit him with bringing the key free agents aboard like Campbell, Bouye, and Church), there were plenty of Caldwell's picks that were catalysts on that 2017 team, including Ramsey, Bortles, Yann, Jack, Telvin Smith, et al.

Accordingly, it is quite possible that Khan legitimately thought that despite the disappointing records, neither Dace Caldwell mor Doug Marrone were completely blameworthy for the final results the past two years.

As for not waiting 3 years to move on from a coach deemed not good enough, the browns have had SEVEN (7) head coaches within the last decade.  Where has such instability gotten them?

I can't... I just can't...

That's what happened? so if you put Marrone instead of BB they still win 6 SBs? I forgot the Patriots are the only team in the NFL with talent in their roster (in some seasons because they've had seasons with mediocre talent in a lot of positions and still had winning seasons... I wonder why....). You say you are not comparing Marrone to BB, then why you posted all that?. BB is BB, not every coach can be like him. I am not old enough to know what happened in Cleveland but looking at those records it was either lack of talent, problems with the owner and/or BB was obviously not the same BB from now. You know, SOME people actually learn and improve from past experiences but others don't, you can give Bradley 20 years as a HC and he will never be at BB level. JDR had another chance with the Raiders and still ended up being the same he was here. 

I see that BB had 4 years before being a HC again, I bet he was (still is) pretty much obsessed with being a great HC, he spent a lot of time thinking about his time in Cleveland and what went wrong and what he should improve, not everyone is like that.

Bradley was awful. Marrone is mediocre. I am not gonna waste my time telling you why when it has been discussed for months in the MB, when it is obvious for any person who has watched all his games as the HC of the Jags, after the blowouts last year and awful awful defense and yet still keeping Wash. He was supposed to be a O-line specialist and ours has been mediocre at best and makes no effort to improve it.

Really his QB went down last year? so? BB (since you love talking about him) lost Brady too and still had a winning season with freaking Matt Cassel. You think Bortles is better than Foles? didn't Foles came back and we were worse with him?

I am done here. 
I hope all you people who defend DC and DM enjoy another losing season.

The problem with Marrone has been a subpar defensive coordinator. Wash rode the wave of superior defensive talent in 2017 that would make any d-coordinator look awesome and glow for years. 

None of the offensive coordinators have been all that bad. They made lemons out of lemonade. The guy who's now with the Packers managed to embarrass the Patriots with Bortles slinging it around on crossers to a bunch of no-name receivers. That was spectacular. Although when we played them in the postseason the previous year, we cut out Grant and became timid. That was probably more on Marrone. 

Caldwell has been an above average drafter since his time here, and he's been aggressive in free agency, not afraid to take some swings. He's brought in a great capologist. I think we can do much worse and I think we have. So, if you fire him, we might get another Gene Smith or Shack Harris. Be careful what you wish for. I'm all for firing Marrone, however, and hiring Bienemy or Gruden (if the offense shines and the defense falls apart again).

---

"I am only an average man, but by George, I work harder at it than the average man." - Teddy Roosevelt

Had TC not been called out by the NFLPA he'd still be here.

Nightmare fuel.

---

(Italics and underline added)

How did you determine Marrone is an "awful" coach?  Was it after he brought Buffalo their first winning season in a decade, or when he brought the Jaguars their first winning season in a decade?  Was it the next year, when the team was down to it's 4th LT by mid season?  BTW, that 4th LT wasn't even on the roster a the beginning of the season.  In fact, he was on our opponent's opening day roster as starting RT.  Or was it last year, when the starting QB was injured eleven (11) offensive plays into the season to be replaced by a rookie QB, and the started CB lost all patience with the team because of TC (among other possible reasons)? 

As for how long it takes to know if hring a coach was a mistake, given the state of our roster at the end of 2012 and the start of 2013, there was no way to definitively know Bradley was a mistake.  You could suspect it, yes.  But if you are basing it solely on W-L, NOBODY would have won with that roster. 

To illustrate

Consider the coach with the following records in his first 6 seasons as a head coach:

6-10
7-9
7-9
11-5
5-11
5-11

Only one (1) winning record in SIX (6) seasons-without even managing one playoff win?!?

Certainly he is not worthy to be a head coach, right?

Congrats. 

You would have canned or not hired  Bill freaking Beliichick.

Now I don't compare Marrone to Belichick-or any number of coaches most deem to be or have been great.

But what happened with Belichick after 2000?  Did he not know anything about coaching despite his father being a coach, despite him being a defensive coordinator for a decade under hall of fame coach Bill Parcells, and being head coach in Cleveland from 1991-1995?  Did he have to return to Parcells with the Jets to learn the how to coach?  If so, why didn't he win in 2000?  What happened between 2000 and 2001 to make him a coach capable of winning for 20 straight seasons, reaching Nine Super Bowls and winning six?

Want a hint? 

Guys named Tom Brady, Matt Light, and Richard Seymour.  I'm no expert, but I would say those guys were pretty important to their success, wouldn't you?  They were added to players like Troy Brown, Tedy Bruschi, Willie McGinest, Ty Law and Lawyer Millloy.


That nucleus enabled him to go on an unprecedented span of winning.

If a coach like Belichick needs talent to win, why should it be any different for Marrone? 

More importantly as it pertains to your analysis, if the team didn't win until TC arrived, then why didn't it continue to win while TC was still here?  If TC were the catalyst, and he was here for three years, shouldn't we be coming off three straight winning seasons?

While TCs contributions to the team helped (I credit him with bringing the key free agents aboard like Campbell, Bouye, and Church), there were plenty of Caldwell's picks that were catalysts on that 2017 team, including Ramsey, Bortles, Yann, Jack, Telvin Smith, et al.

Accordingly, it is quite possible that Khan legitimately thought that despite the disappointing records, neither Dace Caldwell mor Doug Marrone were completely blameworthy for the final results the past two years.

As for not waiting 3 years to move on from a coach deemed not good enough, the browns have had SEVEN (7) head coaches within the last decade.  Where has such instability gotten them?

I can't... I just can't...

That's what happened? so if you put Marrone instead of BB they still win 6 SBs? I forgot the Patriots are the only team in the NFL with talent in their roster (in some seasons because they've had seasons with mediocre talent in a lot of positions and still had winning seasons... I wonder why....). You say you are not comparing Marrone to BB, then why you posted all that?. BB is BB, not every coach can be like him. I am not old enough to know what happened in Cleveland but looking at those records it was either lack of talent, problems with the owner and/or BB was obviously not the same BB from now. You know, SOME people actually learn and improve from past experiences but others don't, you can give Bradley 20 years as a HC and he will never be at BB level. JDR had another chance with the Raiders and still ended up being the same he was here. 

I see that BB had 4 years before being a HC again, I bet he was (still is) pretty much obsessed with being a great HC, he spent a lot of time thinking about his time in Cleveland and what went wrong and what he should improve, not everyone is like that.

Bradley was awful. Marrone is mediocre. I am not gonna waste my time telling you why when it has been discussed for months in the MB, when it is obvious for any person who has watched all his games as the HC of the Jags, after the blowouts last year and awful awful defense and yet still keeping Wash. He was supposed to be a O-line specialist and ours has been mediocre at best and makes no effort to improve it.

Really his QB went down last year? so? BB (since you love talking about him) lost Brady too and still had a winning season with freaking Matt Cassel. You think Bortles is better than Foles? didn't Foles came back and we were worse with him?

I am done here. 
I hope all you people who defend DC and DM enjoy another losing season.

No I do not assert Marrone wins 6 Super bowls when placed in New England instead of Belichick.  Lots of different variables to determine success or failure over the course of seasons and playoffs.

But it's pretty safe to assume he'd have more than the one winning season out of three here in Jacksonville.

The point is-or should be-obvious.  Coaches need talent to succeed.

NFL history-from the distant past and contemporary history- is replete with examples illustrating this.

What's the difference between the Steelers of last year and 2017?  We're talking the same three year period as Marrone's Jacksonville HC stint. This presumably took place AFTER you were born, so that's not an excuse for ducking the analysis.

How did they go from 13-3 to 9-6-1 to 8-8?

Did Tomlin suddenly forget how to win, or is it possible that the Steelers missed the on field contributions of Leveon Bell who held out in 2018 and left last year, Antonio Brown, who left last year, and a healthy Big Ben?

You also mentioned Marrone's specialty as being the offensive line and the OL under Marrone has been "mediocre at best."

That is patently false!

Under Marrone, the OL set a franchise record for fewest sacks allowed in a season, with 24.  That's one and a half sacks a game.

That year the team was also 3rd in rushing yards.

This continued two prior years of considerable reduction of sacks allowed while he was OL coach.

What are YOU using to determine offensive line efficacy?

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

I can't... I just can't...

That's what happened? so if you put Marrone instead of BB they still win 6 SBs? I forgot the Patriots are the only team in the NFL with talent in their roster (in some seasons because they've had seasons with mediocre talent in a lot of positions and still had winning seasons... I wonder why....). You say you are not comparing Marrone to BB, then why you posted all that?. BB is BB, not every coach can be like him. I am not old enough to know what happened in Cleveland but looking at those records it was either lack of talent, problems with the owner and/or BB was obviously not the same BB from now. You know, SOME people actually learn and improve from past experiences but others don't, you can give Bradley 20 years as a HC and he will never be at BB level. JDR had another chance with the Raiders and still ended up being the same he was here. 

I see that BB had 4 years before being a HC again, I bet he was (still is) pretty much obsessed with being a great HC, he spent a lot of time thinking about his time in Cleveland and what went wrong and what he should improve, not everyone is like that.

Bradley was awful. Marrone is mediocre. I am not gonna waste my time telling you why when it has been discussed for months in the MB, when it is obvious for any person who has watched all his games as the HC of the Jags, after the blowouts last year and awful awful defense and yet still keeping Wash. He was supposed to be a O-line specialist and ours has been mediocre at best and makes no effort to improve it.

Really his QB went down last year? so? BB (since you love talking about him) lost Brady too and still had a winning season with freaking Matt Cassel. You think Bortles is better than Foles? didn't Foles came back and we were worse with him?

I am done here. 
I hope all you people who defend DC and DM enjoy another losing season.

The problem with Marrone has been a subpar defensive coordinator. Wash rode the wave of superior defensive talent in 2017 that would make any d-coordinator look awesome and glow for years. 

None of the offensive coordinators have been all that bad. They made lemons out of lemonade. The guy who's now with the Packers managed to embarrass the Patriots with Bortles slinging it around on crossers to a bunch of no-name receivers. That was spectacular. Although when we played them in the postseason the previous year, we cut out Grant and became timid. That was probably more on Marrone. 

Caldwell has been an above average drafter since his time here, and he's been aggressive in free agency, not afraid to take some swings. He's brought in a great capologist. I think we can do much worse and I think we have. So, if you fire him, we might get another Gene Smith or Shack Harris. Be careful what you wish for. I'm all for firing Marrone, however, and hiring Bienemy or Gruden (if the offense shines and the defense falls apart again).

I would say Warhop is a bigger problem at this point than Wash, though it'll be interesting to see how this transition to a 3-4 will work.

We agree completely on Caldwell and Marrone.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Yes, that is what they say.

(that's not something they have said)

RapSheet did.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Continuity and patience VS. the need/desire for change.

It's a sporting argument as old as time itself, across all team sports. It's also something I've never been entirely sure about. Certainly each case needs to be judged on it's own merits. Both sides of the debate have infinite examples that can be thrown out to support their side, so it's not like one side is always right and the other always wrong.

I will say this: generally speaking, across all sports, most long term successful organizations are built upon patience and the ability to look at the big, long term picture. Of course, that also relies upon having a structure and practices in place that breed a winning culture. There's a little bit of the old chicken and egg debate in this whole thing.

Does that mean the Jags were right or wrong to keep DC and DM? I have no idea. I'll probably just wait to see the results in the long term and then claim I was right all along.

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Caldwell Appreciation?

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Damn man, glad you're not the GM.  Dave got a better QB in the 6th and we wouldn't have Allen

Well hindsight is 2020 right? We all know I was on the Haskins train and he finished the season strong last year. And do we really want to get into all the decisions you would have made at GM? You would have had Tebow as the QB.....

It’s great to have Allen now but he’s not going to a SB unless the Jags find a QB.

Haskins certainly isn't taking anyone anywhere.  You miss 2019?

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"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."

I appreciate Dave and John and those guys. We have a pretty good situation. I like the players that were brought in. Schobert, Eiffert, Thompson, Woods, Gunter, Melvin... We have a promising young QB under a rookie contract.

Just brought in a lot of speed and talent, size and talent in the draft, utilizing all 12 picks. Character guys being a bonus, implementing a culture turnover. We still have Leonard. We won with Yannick.

And then, next year we are going to have boo-koo bucks off the books. We will have a ton of cap space. I like it.

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You Gotta Be Able To Run Da' Rock~