The Jungle is self-supported by showing advertisements via Google Adsense.
Please consider disabling your advertisement-blocking plugin on the Jungle to help support the site and let us grow!
We also show significantly less advertisements to registered users, so create your account to benefit from this!
Please consider disabling your advertisement-blocking plugin on the Jungle to help support the site and let us grow!
We also show significantly less advertisements to registered users, so create your account to benefit from this!
Questions or concerns about this ad? Take a screenshot and comment in the thread. We do value your feedback.
AOC’s amendment, to limit US military ads, fails
|
(08-02-2020, 11:20 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote:(08-02-2020, 11:10 AM)mikesez Wrote: Not sure if that photo is legit, but it was amazing when I went to the last air show and got a chance to walk through one of those c5s. One of the people there mentioned that it does carry helicopters. C-5s are being phased out and have been for a while. The AF calls them FREDs: Fu, er, Freaking Ridiculous Economic Disasters. While they can hold a lot, they also break a lot. C-17s are taking their place, which are wonderful aircraft that fly with a joystick. We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today! (08-02-2020, 11:30 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote:(08-02-2020, 10:59 AM)mikesez Wrote: I guess we disagree about that. Why those three hubs? Aren't France, Israel and the UK capable of watching over the Mediterranean? Isn't Japan capable of watching over their area? Isn't the Arabian sea / Persian gulf really narrow? Isn't it easy to cover the whole of it from airstrips in Qatar? Like others here, you are confusing what is with what should be. What do you think should be? wouldn't you agree that the top brass in the Navy is biased towards having more stuff, rather than less? Wouldn't you agree that the lobbyists they listen to want to build more ships, not less ships? (08-02-2020, 11:33 AM)homebiscuit Wrote:(08-02-2020, 11:20 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: ...and we've moved on to reducing the amount of C5's. Pretty sure the Air Force is trying to expand that number. Those planes are instrumental in troop and equipment transport. Good. That all sounds sensible. notice I'm not the one who brought up the C5 in this thread...
My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.
(08-02-2020, 11:20 AM)mikesez Wrote:(08-02-2020, 11:15 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: When confronted with immutable facts: As many as needed to do the job. 12 seems to be the happy number. What you're failing to take into account is the availability of the carriers at any given time while several are going through maintenance, upkeep and upgrade. These can take months at a time. So while we may have 12 carriers, perhaps only 8 are available for deployment. It fluctuates. There's also consideration for aging carriers that will be decommissioned while newer ones take their place with better technology and capabilities. Again, that number fluctuates. The numbers of ships we have, of any type, are produced with the availability factor in mind.
(08-02-2020, 10:44 AM)mikesez Wrote:(08-02-2020, 10:42 AM)jagibelieve Wrote: That's what makes it so funny. Let me show exhibit A. Figure it out. At any point in time a Navy ship (as well as aircraft) is in one of three basic phases. Pre-deployment where testing, evaluation and training takes place. Deployment (including moving to/from the patrol area). Post-deployment when maintenance and time consuming repairs commonly take place. Now keep in mind a couple of things. 1. A ship stays "on station" until it is relieved. In other words, a ship patrolling say the Mediterranean will stay there until the ship(s) relieving it arrives and they do turnover, so at any time there might be two ships on the deployment cycle assigned to the same area. 2. There is also a break in the "normal cycle" of operations for major work such as an overhaul or refueling. (08-02-2020, 10:59 AM)mikesez Wrote:(08-02-2020, 10:49 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: Continuous and indefinite coverage of 3 naval hubs (Med, Arabian, W Pac) requires 16 fleet carriers. We currently have 11 fleet carriers. If we have to dispatch two carriers for a single event we do not have sufficient capacity to do so. Really you should just stop... unless you genuinely want to learn something. There are 10 kinds of people in this world. Those who understand binary and those who don't. (08-02-2020, 11:46 AM)jagibelieve Wrote:(08-02-2020, 10:59 AM)mikesez Wrote: I guess we disagree about that. Why those three hubs? Aren't France, Israel and the UK capable of watching over the Mediterranean? Isn't Japan capable of watching over their area? Isn't the Arabian sea / Persian gulf really narrow? Isn't it easy to cover the whole of it from airstrips in Qatar? I find it ridiculous that one country, that has maybe 5% of the world's population, became responsible for maritime security in all five oceans... Common Sense dictates that's just as ridiculous as the island of great Britain ruling over the continent of North America.
My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.
We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today! (08-02-2020, 11:46 AM)jagibelieve Wrote:(08-02-2020, 10:44 AM)mikesez Wrote: Fine. I know all of that. a ship is only available for battle operations maybe a third of the time, at least during a peace time cycle. Why do you assume we need to have a battle ready ship 24/7, in every potential hot spot? Would a one or two month delay in response to something going on near Muscat or Singapore really be catastrophic in a naval context? None of our potential adversaries make this assumption. And please pay attention to what I said about ICBM armed submarines. If the range of the ICBM is 2/3 of the circumference of the Earth, how many submarines do you need deployed to complete the triad and have mutual assured destruction of every point of the globe? (The answer is two) if those submarines need to be cycled in and out such that you need three submarines for every one that's battle ready at any given time, how many do you need? (The answer is two times three, six.) And how many of these did we actually build?
My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.
(08-02-2020, 12:02 PM)mikesez Wrote:(08-02-2020, 11:46 AM)jagibelieve Wrote: Figure it out. At any point in time a Navy ship (as well as aircraft) is in one of three basic phases. Pre-deployment where testing, evaluation and training takes place. Deployment (including moving to/from the patrol area). Post-deployment when maintenance and time consuming repairs commonly take place. Given that an adversary isn’t tracking and targeting precious assets. I understand your argument but you’re attempting to simplify it to the extreme by not putting it into context of the world stage. (08-02-2020, 12:44 PM)homebiscuit Wrote:(08-02-2020, 12:02 PM)mikesez Wrote: I know all of that. a ship is only available for battle operations maybe a third of the time, at least during a peace time cycle. You think they can track our subs?
My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.
(08-02-2020, 11:33 AM)homebiscuit Wrote:(08-02-2020, 11:20 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: ...and we've moved on to reducing the amount of C5's. Pretty sure the Air Force is trying to expand that number. Those planes are instrumental in troop and equipment transport. This could be. I read an article a few years back about the Air Force increasing the number of C-5's in their fleet, but I couldn't tell you how long ago that was. I remember they had cut their fleet in half, but were going to make some more for some reason. Can't remember the details. It's not really a subject I follow. I can tell you that we flew through a typhoon on the way from Hawaii to S. Korea, and the turbulence was so bad, everyone thought we were going to die. I was making light of the situation. We made an emergency stop in Guam, and when we got off, I made a joke to the pilot about the fun ride. He said, "son, you don't know how close we came to dying. That hull is split from wing to wing, and I have no idea what kept that plane together." We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today!
(08-02-2020, 01:27 PM)mikesez Wrote:(08-02-2020, 12:44 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: Given that an adversary isn’t tracking and targeting precious assets. They can and do. It’s a constant battle of cat and mouse in the sub service. (08-02-2020, 01:39 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote:(08-02-2020, 11:33 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: C-5s are being phased out and have been for a while. The AF calls them FREDs: Fu, er, Freaking Ridiculous Economic Disasters. While they can hold a lot, they also break a lot. C-17s are taking their place, which are wonderful aircraft that fly with a joystick. When I was TAD to military customs in the Philippines I would clear a C-5 on occasion. A crewman told me of all the issues it had. I’m still awed at how big they are. (08-02-2020, 08:36 AM)mikesez Wrote:(08-01-2020, 11:32 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: Dude. Shut up. You have never served and don't know what you're talking about. I'm an Army veteran and don't know exactly what Jagibelieve and Homebicuit are saying (regarding ships and other Navy stuff) because the Navy and Marine Corps speak a very different language than the Army. But I know they know what they're talking about and are making you look like an idiot. Dude just stop! Why do you insist on being the smartest person in every room you walk in? Your narcissism rivals Trumps. Look, I drive a 4WD Tacoma with street tires. I would never dream of taking it to a mud pit and go where guys with lift kits and mud tires go play. The comparison of my truck and those trucks is ridiculous and that is what you are attempting to do here, so just stop.
Original Season Ticket Holder - Retired 1995 - 2020
At some point you just have to let go of what you thought should happen and live in what is happening. (08-02-2020, 01:55 PM)copycat Wrote:(08-02-2020, 08:36 AM)mikesez Wrote: JIB is mistaking terms of art for meaningful knowledge. So are you. I'm not insisting on that. In fact, I'm the only one on this thread asking questions. I'm the only one here admitting to having stuff to learn. So here's your question: if UK and France have one big carrier each, and Russia has only one, why do we need 11 or 12?
My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.
(08-02-2020, 02:46 PM)mikesez Wrote:That question was answered already. Like it or not the USN is the arbitrator/protector of free shipping lanes. Do you really trust Russia, China, or North Korea to protect your interests? Does any non communist country? We Right now on August 2, 2020 do not have teleporters. So while you do what you do so well which is to move the goalpost (any ship that can carry a plane is equal to an aircraft carrier) to how many aircraft carriers does America need, l have to ask why are you opposed to making America self sufficient?(08-02-2020, 01:55 PM)copycat Wrote: Dude just stop! Why do you insist on being the smartest person in every room you walk in? Your narcissism rivals Trumps.
Original Season Ticket Holder - Retired 1995 - 2020
At some point you just have to let go of what you thought should happen and live in what is happening. We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today! (08-02-2020, 03:54 PM)copycat Wrote:(08-02-2020, 02:46 PM)mikesez Wrote: I'm not insisting on that.That question was answered already. Like it or not the USN is the arbitrator/protector of free shipping lanes. Do you really trust Russia, China, or North Korea to protect your interests? Does any non communist country? We Right now on August 2, 2020 do not have teleporters. So while you do what you do so well which is to move the goalpost (any ship that can carry a plane is equal to an aircraft carrier) to how many aircraft carriers does America need, l have to ask why are you opposed to making America self sufficient? I don't understand why you keep beating that dead horse. Whether we have 11 aircraft carriers or 20, we have way more than everyone else, combined, which was my point. I don't think aircraft carriers play a big role in protecting shipping. The main threat to cargo ships, historically, is submarines. While an aircraft carrier would certainly be useful in preventing piracy or breaking blockades, other ships are just as useful. Guided missiles, guided torpedoes, and artillery still work. Captain Phillips was saved by naval marksmen with rifles, not Navy pilots in planes. The unique ability of the aircraft carrier is that you can stage an air raid from the ocean. But with every country having its own fleet of satellites, knowing where all of our ships are at all times, this kind of surprise attack ability is not nearly as useful as it used to be.
My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.
(08-02-2020, 04:11 PM)mikesez Wrote:(08-02-2020, 03:54 PM)copycat Wrote: That question was answered already. Like it or not the USN is the arbitrator/protector of free shipping lanes. Do you really trust Russia, China, or North Korea to protect your interests? Does any non communist country? We Right now on August 2, 2020 do not have teleporters. So while you do what you do so well which is to move the goalpost (any ship that can carry a plane is equal to an aircraft carrier) to how many aircraft carriers does America need, l have to ask why are you opposed to making America self sufficient?
Original Season Ticket Holder - Retired 1995 - 2020
At some point you just have to let go of what you thought should happen and live in what is happening.
(08-02-2020, 11:36 AM)mikesez Wrote:(08-02-2020, 11:30 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: If you want to know go ask the Future Navy Force task force, I simply answered your question. The US 6th Fleet is headquartered in Naples and covers the Med and Atlantic. The 5th Fleet is in Bahrain and covers the Persian Gulf to the Indian Ocean. The 7th Fleet is in Japan and covers the Western Pacific. The rest of our carriers are US-based out of San Diego and Virginia. Of course, if you spent your Google time looking at the location and disposition of the US Fleets you might answer your own questions as to why those locations are significant. Lol, there's the issue with you. If you think everyone else is confused then everyone isn't the one who is confused. “An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato
(08-02-2020, 12:02 PM)mikesez Wrote:(08-02-2020, 11:46 AM)jagibelieve Wrote: Figure it out. At any point in time a Navy ship (as well as aircraft) is in one of three basic phases. Pre-deployment where testing, evaluation and training takes place. Deployment (including moving to/from the patrol area). Post-deployment when maintenance and time consuming repairs commonly take place. In case you having noticed you [BLEEP] [BLEEP], A LOT of countries want to take us down or mess with our [BLEEP] allies, none of which have the [BLEEP] capability to handle more than a handful of [BLEEP] coming their way. Like it or not we are the tip of the [BLEEP] spear when it comes to military force. So just [BLEEP] STOP. Coulda, woulda, shoulda doesn't mean [BLEEP]. We don't live in the world we want, we live in the one we have and that means we have to be ready for [BLEEP] to hit the fan at any moment. 9/11 taught us that. But you must not have been old enough to have felt what that did to the country or you wouldn't ask such dumb [BLEEP] questions. Your [BLEEP] questions have been answered. Move the [BLEEP] on. We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today!
(08-02-2020, 04:48 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote:(08-02-2020, 11:36 AM)mikesez Wrote: Like others here, you are confusing what is with what should be. or I've just chosen to pick a fight about military spending with a town that more or less butters all its bread with extra military dollars... with a town where grown men go to bed at night dreaming of the day when an aircraft carrier will be stationed at mayport again... In any case I'm not the only one here agreeing that we need to cut spending on the military. (08-02-2020, 06:08 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote:(08-02-2020, 12:02 PM)mikesez Wrote: I know all of that. a ship is only available for battle operations maybe a third of the time, at least during a peace time cycle. who do you think you are, that you can tell another person to stop talking just because you're angry? What country do you think you live in?
My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.
This is great. Where's the popcorn gif. It's nice to sit back and watch others argue with this dude for once. This is how I feel in every political thread.
|
Users browsing this thread: |
1 Guest(s) |
The Jungle is self-supported by showing advertisements via Google Adsense.
Please consider disabling your advertisement-blocking plugin on the Jungle to help support the site and let us grow!
We also show less advertisements to registered users, so create your account to benefit from this!
Please consider disabling your advertisement-blocking plugin on the Jungle to help support the site and let us grow!
We also show less advertisements to registered users, so create your account to benefit from this!
Questions or concerns about this ad? Take a screenshot and comment in the thread. We do value your feedback.