Top 5?!

Man. Drinking this early huh?

He is already currently Top 5/Top 10 in certain statistics this year. Even on team with a really bad defense and a losing record.

He's top 5 in passing stats right now. He's top 7 in TD's right now. And that's factoring in his performance against the Miami. Imagine if the team had a more competent defense and a better record. And he wasn't being pressured to try and overcome large deficits a lot of the time.

If things could improve around, whether it's on this Jags team or another team, I could see him being at least a Top 10 QB overall at some point. Definitely top 12-15. As for being a top five at some point, you never know.

Keep in mind in 2016 in stats Joe Flacco was number 2 and Bortles was number 3 in QB rankings. 

There are statistics and then there are damn statistics.. 

Good thing Ravens still decided to draft Lamar Jackson.

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Lol let's trade Minshew to the Patriots, he sucks. Awful let's draft Lawrence.

I'll be curious to see what ya'lls thoughts are in 10 years after that happened.

I honestly think you guys don't know what a good QB looks like. We been seeing bad ones too often. To even bring up Bortle's apologists just goes to show you don't understand what you're seeing. Bortles was actually pretty decent except in one key category, he could not throw the football. Which is a pretty laughable problem to have as a QB. There is one key difference between Minshew and Bortles. Minshew, the entire league recognizes he is a good QB, except some traumatized Jags fans. Bortles the entire league recognized as a bad QB, except some traumatized Jags fans.

Minshew checks all the boxes, we're just a bad football team, which is frustrating because our Offense is good enough to hang with most teams in this league, being 3 years removed from on of the League's best defenses, this hurts.

The plan is obviously to push next year, and I trust we will be just improved. But honestly without some big free agent signings I'm not sure it will be enough. Not sure who's all going to be available this off season

Bingo, I think there's a little bit of this going on. People see the great plays other young QBs are making but the bad plays aren't typically on the highlights and since we're not watching those players on a game by game basis, we don't see those. Burrows forced some bad decisions in a few instances yesterday that could have been easy picks and would have altered the perception of his performance dramatically. With that said, Minshew still had a better stat line even for a game most people think of as "bad".

Even the best players throw picks, scramble when they should have stayed in the pocket, and take sacks they shouldn't at times. It happens.

He may end up not being the answer but at least wait to the end of the season to decide.

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I'm condescending. That means I talk down to you. 
Check out the Jag's Forum Alternative: Duval Football Fans.

Do you really think he's a Top 5 QB in the NFL because of some meaningless stats?  Really?  You will be very lonely on that island if you do.

His QBR is 19th.  Pedestrian at best.  I'm not saying he can't become better, but he could also get worse.   The thing is, we don't know.  Let's play the season out before we get any real evaluation or projection of him.

Technically he is top 5 in that one statistic. And he had a top five performance in the the first week. And top 10 performances the first two weeks of this season. I can't think of more than 9 QB's that played/looked better than Gardner did the first couple of weeks this season. Off the top of my head, I would say Russell Wilson, Josh Allen, Aaron Rodgers, Lamar, Mahomes, etc... I can't think of too many beyond that. He was showing that he could hang in there with a really good group of players.

I think he has the potential to be a good QB and a longer starter in this league. Look at what he's putting up with a team that has some really bad problems. When you factor in everything and I'll include QBR in that he may already be like top 15 overall right now. At the very least close to it. It's very possible (especially with all of the teams that are currently also 1-3 and 0-4 right now.) We have a lot of teams right now with bad records and a lot their QB's are not putting up the numbers/production that Gardner has been doing. And some of these teams have better coaches, weapons and defenses than Gardner has.

I think that he can definitely grow and improve, especially if the situation around him becomes better.
 

And he has the room to go up, if this team could play better overall. Or if he finds himself in a much better situation.

I have said it many, many times. He reminds me of Tony Romo as far as his playing style. I think if he is able to carve that sort of a career out, Jags fans should be happy. Unfortunately, Romo was held back by coaching and defense in his career... sounds familiar

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Thing that sticks out to me this season with Minshew is the clock management situations during 2 minute offense at end of games.

I understand taking the middle of the field if you can get a chunk yardage out of it. But, going to that 3 times in a row and not hurrying up to spike/clock the ball is wasting a lot of time. Announcers yesterday were going on about it, I had to agree. There was probably 30-40 seconds wasted by not clocking the ball, instead trying to organize a play while shifting players to opposite sides of the line.

He also did similar stuff in the Tennessee game, taking middle of field with practically no time.

Idk if this is something that needs taught/bled down from the coaching staff (Marrone's clock management, lol). But, Minshew has seemed very lackadaisacal lately with last minute situations.

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Do you really think he's a Top 5 QB in the NFL because of some meaningless stats?  Really?  You will be very lonely on that island if you do.

His QBR is 19th.  Pedestrian at best.  I'm not saying he can't become better, but he could also get worse.   The thing is, we don't know.  Let's play the season out before we get any real evaluation or projection of him.

Technically he is top 5 in that one statistic. And he had a top five performance in the the first week. And top 10 performances the first two weeks of this season. I can't think of more than 9 QB's that played/looked better than Gardner did the first couple of weeks this season. Off the top of my head, I would say Russell Wilson, Josh Allen, Aaron Rodgers, Lamar, Mahomes, etc... I can't think of too many beyond that. He was showing that he could hang in there with a really good group of players.

I think he has the potential to be a good QB and a longer starter in this league. Look at what he's putting up with a team that has some really bad problems. When you factor in everything and I'll include QBR in that he may already be like top 15 overall right now. At the very least close to it. It's very possible (especially with all of the teams that are currently also 1-3 and 0-4 right now.) We have a lot of teams right now with bad records and a lot their QB's are not putting up the numbers/production that Gardner has been doing. And some of these teams have better coaches, weapons and defenses than Gardner has.

I think that he can definitely grow and improve, especially if the situation around him becomes better.
 

And he has the room to go up, if this team could play better overall. Or if he finds himself in a much better situation.

Well, I will respectfully disagree that he is a Top 15 QB.  I think he has played well, particularly the first 2 games of the season.  You think he can grow and improve, but I actually expect a regression over the course of the season to who he is... a below average starting QB in the NFL.  Its only been 4 games this year and we have already seen a regression in these last 2.  Time will tell.

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This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.

And yes, I agree that any qb would have a hard time winning anything with a defense like the Jags are currently fielding.

Wow, incredibly bad. If Jack hadn't intercepted that ball in the end zone yesterday after Cincy drove all the way down there yet again, another 7 would've been tacked on.

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This Offense is good enough to win games. That's not the issue.

This Defense is the problem. It's hilariously bad. They've given up an average of 400 yards and 33 points in the past 3 games.. Two of which were against winless teams. It's not going to matter who the QB is. You're not going to win much of any games with a Defense this bad.

This.

It puts undue pressure on the offense to score 30 points a game. 

Also, it seems like Minshew has been nutered to an extent. He thrives off of the deep ball last year and in week 1. Has the deep ball been written out of the playbook? Because it seems as if we are resigned to dunking and dunking down the field now, It seems as when he went to the 2 minute offense at half and at the end of the game he was throwing those passes with precision. The back shoulder fade to Chark comes to mind.

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"Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he's a mile away and barefoot."

This Offense is good enough to win games. That's not the issue.

This Defense is the problem. It's hilariously bad. They've given up an average of 400 yards and 33 points in the past 3 games.. Two of which were against winless teams. It's not going to matter who the QB is. You're not going to win much of any games with a Defense this bad.

This.

It puts undue pressure on the offense to score 30 points a game. 

Also, it seems like Minshew has been nutered to an extent. He thrives off of the deep ball last year and in week 1. Has the deep ball been written out of the playbook? Because it seems as if we are resigned to dunking and dunking down the field now, It seems as when he went to the 2 minute offense at half and at the end of the game he was throwing those passes with precision. The back shoulder fade to Chark comes to mind.

It's the paradox of both needing to score every possession and protecting the ball from turnover at all costs.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Arm strength, or velocity, or ability to "zip" the throws into tight windows probably is a legitimate knock.

The two big throws that I've seen where it was just clear that Minshew doesn't have what it takes to be elite is the deep pass to Chark in week 2 that should have been an easy TD. Minshew has the deep ball accuracy to drop it in the bucket for a nice gain, but he doesn't have the arm to see a guy like Chark streaking three yards past the defender and gun it to him to turn the 30 yard gain into a catch and run TD.

The other one was a play in week 3 where he got flushed out of the pocket and one of the receivers broke free in the scramble drill and was open just beyond the sticks. A franchise QB consistently makes teams pay for that by throwing a quick dart to that open receiver for a first down. Minshew just doesn't have the arm strength to get the ball there without having his base and momentum under him, and the ball fell a yard short of the targets feet.

Those were two glaring throws that a franchise QB needs to make, in addition to those honey hole deep out cover 2 beaters that we apparently don't even have in the playbook because they know Minshew can't hit them.

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Arm strength, or velocity, or ability to "zip" the throws into tight windows probably is a legitimate knock.

The two big throws that I've seen where it was just clear that Minshew doesn't have what it takes to be elite is the deep pass to Chark in week 2 that should have been an easy TD. Minshew has the deep ball accuracy to drop it in the bucket for a nice gain, but he doesn't have the arm to see a guy like Chark streaking three yards past the defender and gun it to him to turn the 30 yard gain into a catch and run TD.

The other one was a play in week 3 where he got flushed out of the pocket and one of the receivers broke free in the scramble drill and was open just beyond the sticks. A franchise QB consistently makes teams pay for that by throwing a quick dart to that open receiver for a first down. Minshew just doesn't have the arm strength to get the ball there without having his base and momentum under him, and the ball fell a yard short of the targets feet.

Those were two glaring throws that a franchise QB needs to make, in addition to those honey hole deep out cover 2 beaters that we apparently don't even have in the playbook because they know Minshew can't hit them.

Strong post.  Great points.

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This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.

Lol let's trade Minshew to the Patriots, he sucks. Awful let's draft Lawrence.

I'll be curious to see what ya'lls thoughts are in 10 years after that happened.

I honestly think you guys don't know what a good QB looks like. We been seeing bad ones too often. To even bring up Bortle's apologists just goes to show you don't understand what you're seeing. Bortles was actually pretty decent except in one key category, he could not throw the football. Which is a pretty laughable problem to have as a QB. There is one key difference between Minshew and Bortles. Minshew, the entire league recognizes he is a good QB, except some traumatized Jags fans. Bortles the entire league recognized as a bad QB, except some traumatized Jags fans.

Minshew checks all the boxes, we're just a bad football team, which is frustrating because our Offense is good enough to hang with most teams in this league, being 3 years removed from on of the League's best defenses, this hurts.

The plan is obviously to push next year, and I trust we will be just improved. But honestly without some big free agent signings I'm not sure it will be enough. Not sure who's all going to be available this off season

Bingo, I think there's a little bit of this going on. People see the great plays other young QBs are making but the bad plays aren't typically on the highlights and since we're not watching those players on a game by game basis, we don't see those. Burrows forced some bad decisions in a few instances yesterday that could have been easy picks and would have altered the perception of his performance dramatically. With that said, Minshew still had a better stat line even for a game most people think of as "bad".

Even the best players throw picks, scramble when they should have stayed in the pocket, and take sacks they shouldn't at times. It happens.

He may end up not being the answer but at least wait to the end of the season to decide.

I agree and overall he has been performing better than most of the other young QB's including from his class. Some more lists to show how he's measured up against the other 2019 QBs:

https://twitter.com/KTVBSportsGuy/status...6753001474

https://twitter.com/KTVBSportsGuy/status...1338796034

He's performed better than just about all of them, though almost all of them were taken in rounds ahead of him. Though some of them haven't really played yet and, you could definitely give Drew Lock some credit for being the only QB of that class to have a winning record and how's he's performed in a more limited amount of starts. Yet Gardner continues to get doubted more than some of the other QB's on this list.

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Bingo, I think there's a little bit of this going on. People see the great plays other young QBs are making but the bad plays aren't typically on the highlights and since we're not watching those players on a game by game basis, we don't see those. Burrows forced some bad decisions in a few instances yesterday that could have been easy picks and would have altered the perception of his performance dramatically. With that said, Minshew still had a better stat line even for a game most people think of as "bad".

Even the best players throw picks, scramble when they should have stayed in the pocket, and take sacks they shouldn't at times. It happens.

He may end up not being the answer but at least wait to the end of the season to decide.

I agree and overall he has been performing better than most of the other young QB's including from his class. Some more lists to show how he's measured up against the other 2019 QBs:

https://twitter.com/KTVBSportsGuy/status...6753001474

https://twitter.com/KTVBSportsGuy/status...1338796034

He's performed better than just about all of them, though almost all of them were taken in rounds ahead of him. Though some of them haven't really played yet and, you could definitely give Drew Lock some credit for being the only QB of that class to have a winning record and how's he's performed in a more limited amount of starts. Yet Gardner continues to get doubted more than some of the other QB's on this list.

You can't make any strong judgements about any QB in the 2019 class after Week 4 of 2020.  Kyler Murray is still the best of that bunch imo.  His athleticism separates him from the rest, not his draft position.  Re-run this list at the end of this season and see where the rankings are.  Minshew will start falling.  I like him and I hope I am wrong, but you can see it regressing already these last 2 weeks against bad teams.

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This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.

I agree and overall he has been performing better than most of the other young QB's including from his class. Some more lists to show how he's measured up against the other 2019 QBs:

https://twitter.com/KTVBSportsGuy/status...6753001474

https://twitter.com/KTVBSportsGuy/status...1338796034

He's performed better than just about all of them, though almost all of them were taken in rounds ahead of him. Though some of them haven't really played yet and, you could definitely give Drew Lock some credit for being the only QB of that class to have a winning record and how's he's performed in a more limited amount of starts. Yet Gardner continues to get doubted more than some of the other QB's on this list.

You can't make any strong judgements about any QB in the 2019 class after Week 4 of 2020.  Kyler Murray is still the best of that bunch imo.  His athleticism separates him from the rest, not his draft position.  Re-run this list at the end of this season and see where the rankings are.  Minshew will start falling.  I like him and I hope I am wrong, but you can see it regressing already these last 2 weeks against bad teams.

Murray has not looked good the last two weeks though. Yesterday he had 130 yards passing or something, with Nuke Hopkins on the field.
3 INTs the week before...

I'm not saying he sucks, or Minshew is better... I've long said of that class Murray was still the probable better QB than Minshew, but he's showing some signs of regression as well. 

But that all goes to your point about deciding on that class 4 games into year 2. Minshew has arguably performed better than most up to this point though, with less physical ability... so that should be promising yet some QBs are getting a pass while Minshew is getting trashed.

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You can't make any strong judgements about any QB in the 2019 class after Week 4 of 2020.  Kyler Murray is still the best of that bunch imo.  His athleticism separates him from the rest, not his draft position.  Re-run this list at the end of this season and see where the rankings are.  Minshew will start falling.  I like him and I hope I am wrong, but you can see it regressing already these last 2 weeks against bad teams.

Murray has not looked good the last two weeks though. Yesterday he had 130 yards passing or something, with Nuke Hopkins on the field.
3 INTs the week before...

I'm not saying he sucks, or Minshew is better... I've long said of that class Murray was still the probable better QB than Minshew, but he's showing some signs of regression as well. 

But that all goes to your point about deciding on that class 4 games into year 2. Minshew has arguably performed better than most up to this point though, with less physical ability... so that should be promising yet some QBs are getting a pass while Minshew is getting trashed.

I haven't seen anyone is trashing Minshew or giving a pass to others.  If anything, Minshew is getting overhyped.  I'm not 100% sold on Murray, but what separates him from Minshew in my mind is athleticism.  Murray has a greater ability to improvise than Minshew, which I why I would place him ahead at this point.  Murray had Hopkins on the field yesterday, but Hop was playing with a bad ankle and it showed. I have actually been more impressed with Burrows after 4 games than either of those 2 after 16+.

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This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.

I really don't know why people expect Minshew to be perfect every single game. No QB is, not even the greats.

I feel that some people aren't even watching these games honestly. How can you sit here and watch this team the last couple weeks and point blame anywhere else but at this Defense.

Hell, Dak Prescott is throwing for 500 yards and 3+ TDs a game and they're still losing because their Defense is just as terrible as ours. At some point it goes far beyond QB play and this is where we're at. Our Defense is historically bad.

What good will it do drafting another QB in the top 5 when our Defense continues to give up 400+ yards and 40 points a game. We'll just be sitting here calling that rookie a bust by seasons end because we only won 3 or 4 games and everybody will be wanting to draft another QB in the top 5 again.

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I really don't know why people expect Minshew to be perfect every single game. No QB is, not even the greats.

I feel that some people aren't even watching these games honestly. How can you sit here and watch this team the last couple weeks and point blame anywhere else but at this Defense.

Hell, Dak Prescott is throwing for 500 yards and 3+ TDs a game and they're still losing because their Defense is just as terrible as ours. At some point it goes far beyond QB play and this is where we're at. Our Defense is historically bad.

What good will it do drafting another QB in the top 5 when our Defense continues to give up 400+ yards and 40 points a game. We'll just be sitting here calling that rookie a bust by seasons end because we only won 3 or 4 games and everybody will be wanting to draft another QB in the top 5 again.

You’re reading more into the thread than what was posted. No one has said Minshew is the reason we have lost the last two games. Anyone with half a brain can see defense is a HUGE problem right.... My thread is discussing Minshews performance alone, on an island, by himself. 

He is playing startled like he did in the London game last year. I have a growing concern over his ability to handle mental pressure. For a lack of better words he’s freaking out, and making mistakes reading the field. His throws are off, he misses receivers wide open, and he’s holding the ball too long. 

So yes- the defense sucks, but Minshew should be picking apart these defenses...no excuses.

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But i mean let's look at the other QB's over the past 3 seasons:
2020: Joe Burrow, Tua Tagovailoa, Justin Herbert.
2019: Kyler Murray, Daniel Jones, Dwayne Haskins, Drew Lock.
2018: Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson.

There a few guys who have moments like Murray, Herbert, and Burrow from last 2 drafts, but have yet to produce results better than Minshew. And honestly there isn't that much tape out on Herbert and Burrow yet.
Allen looked horrible until this year, year 3. Have to see if it persists.
Lamar had an offense built around him that plays into his elite running ability that no one can match and makes his reads easier, yet he still inconsistent as a passer and has fewer comebacks than Minshew.

So if I had to make a decision today, Minshew is probably not the guy. But honestly it is way too early to make that call. Plus You don't have to for 12 more games. And even if the season goes down the hole and they decide to draft Trevor next season, it is not like they will be cutting Minshew who then would become the best back up QB in the league.

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I really don't know why people expect Minshew to be perfect every single game. No QB is, not even the greats.

I feel that some people aren't even watching these games honestly. How can you sit here and watch this team the last couple weeks and point blame anywhere else but at this Defense.

Hell, Dak Prescott is throwing for 500 yards and 3+ TDs a game and they're still losing because their Defense is just as terrible as ours. At some point it goes far beyond QB play and this is where we're at. Our Defense is historically bad.

What good will it do drafting another QB in the top 5 when our Defense continues to give up 400+ yards and 40 points a game. We'll just be sitting here calling that rookie a bust by seasons end because we only won 3 or 4 games and everybody will be wanting to draft another QB in the top 5 again.

If the Top 5 QB turns out to be like Mahomes, its clearly worth it.  I don't think anyone here thinks Minshew is a problem... but many wonder if he is the solution.

This is a long-term rebuild.  If the new GM thinks he can do better than Minshew, he will go get one.  I like him, but I'm on the fence with him myself.  I want to see how he plays the rest of the season.

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This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.

I guarantee all of you that if we cut or traded GM15 tomorrow ....
there would be a line of teams out the door to sign him up.
Other teams see his potential and until we get rid of "Phony Bologna" and "wash woman"
continuing to draft players and ruining them with these two clowns is what we're going to get until
they're G-O-N-E. 

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Because Jaguars is our mantra 

I really don't know why people expect Minshew to be perfect every single game. No QB is, not even the greats.

I feel that some people aren't even watching these games honestly. How can you sit here and watch this team the last couple weeks and point blame anywhere else but at this Defense.

Hell, Dak Prescott is throwing for 500 yards and 3+ TDs a game and they're still losing because their Defense is just as terrible as ours. At some point it goes far beyond QB play and this is where we're at. Our Defense is historically bad.

What good will it do drafting another QB in the top 5 when our Defense continues to give up 400+ yards and 40 points a game. We'll just be sitting here calling that rookie a bust by seasons end because we only won 3 or 4 games and everybody will be wanting to draft another QB in the top 5 again.

If the Top 5 QB turns out to be like Mahomes, its clearly worth it.  I don't think anyone here thinks Minshew is a problem... but many wonder if he is the solution.

This is a long-term rebuild.  If the new GM thinks he can do better than Minshew, he will go get one.  I like him, but I'm on the fence with him myself.  I want to see how he plays the rest of the season.

I dont think this is a long term rebuild.  With the draft picks and cap room we have next year we can make the playoffs

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