Agreed. If we're picking first overall, take Lawrence. Although I'm not as high on him as some, I can not deny the kid's talent or deny that picking first overall means Minshew likely isn't "the guy".

If we're picking 3rd-5th, It is a bit more muddled. I want to see Fields play before being sold on him being a top 5 pick. I'm not sold on Lance and won't get any more games to watch. I'd like to see how Trask finishes the year. And a few other QBs too. As of right now I'd be more inclined to continue building the team around the QB instead of reaching for a QB. The OL isn't perfect, Robinson is a FA, Linder is always hurt, both guards are unimpressive usually.... There's certainly room to get better there. TE is still lacking a legit weapon. And the defense could use a lot of help.

By college season's end (and Minshew's 2nd season), I may feel differently about when and where to draft a QB.

I agree. Take Lawrence if we get the #1 overall pick or if he's on the board when we pick, but if he isn't, don't reach for a QB. Take the BAP. We have enough needs on this team that an elite player at any position would certainly help. We reached for Gabbert and Bortles and look what happened. Reaching for a QB with a top 10 pick is never a good idea. I'd rather wait and see what is available with our late first round pick or even our high second round pick. Maybe we can find a proven QB in that range.

Lol, Gabbs wasn't a reach, he was a consensus Top 5 pick going into the draft. You really like to revise history to suit your anger.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Completely reasonable. I think people look at a few different QBs who enjoy success early on and forget that the majority of them have rough patches in their first couple of years. He's looked out of sorts at times but it's not like he's playing badly. He is being asked to share an extraordinary amount of the load for a young player. Since the tacks game, he's averaging 44 pass attempts per game. I'd like him to get down to more like 30. Part of that is because the Jags have been down but it's still asking a lot of the guy. 

If the Jags do end up with the number one pick, I think they got to go for Lawrence even though there's no guarantee he'll be any better. (People see the draft as some magic panacea that will make things all right. They're almost always wrong.)

I think we see so many passes because most of his passes are check downs. Lol

I’m going to admit im horribly bias. I’m bias because of this organizations failures at QB and in the fact that Minshew doesn’t have the pedigree your typical starting QB has. 

I don’t want to waste another 3-4 years watching a team that gets it together on certain aspects and yet we are stuck with a bum qb. The last couple decades have been exhausting and I realize that isn’t fair to Minshew, but it is what it is.

In my opinion you need two things to win a Super Bowl, a good QB and a good defense. Talent around the offense can come from much later in the draft.

You could argue that the number of completions or completion percentage is due to check downs but not passes thrown. Passes thrown is completely reliant on play calling.

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I agree. Take Lawrence if we get the #1 overall pick or if he's on the board when we pick, but if he isn't, don't reach for a QB. Take the BAP. We have enough needs on this team that an elite player at any position would certainly help. We reached for Gabbert and Bortles and look what happened. Reaching for a QB with a top 10 pick is never a good idea. I'd rather wait and see what is available with our late first round pick or even our high second round pick. Maybe we can find a proven QB in that range.

Lol, Gabbs wasn't a reach, he was a consensus Top 5 pick going into the draft. You really like to revise history to suit your anger.

He wasn't a consensus Top 5 pick... but not a big reach.  He was projected as a mid-first rounder (13-19 range).  Mel Kiper had him at #14 on his Final board, ironically ahead of Cam Newton who was the Number 1 pick.

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This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.

I think we see so many passes because most of his passes are check downs. Lol

I’m going to admit im horribly bias. I’m bias because of this organizations failures at QB and in the fact that Minshew doesn’t have the pedigree your typical starting QB has. 

I don’t want to waste another 3-4 years watching a team that gets it together on certain aspects and yet we are stuck with a bum qb. The last couple decades have been exhausting and I realize that isn’t fair to Minshew, but it is what it is.

In my opinion you need two things to win a Super Bowl, a good QB and a good defense. Talent around the offense can come from much later in the draft.

You could argue that the number of completions or completion percentage is due to check downs but not passes thrown. Passes thrown is completely reliant on play calling.

I like how many complain about the checkdowns and quick throws, but that's a *feature* not a bug of the West Coast offense. Which is what Gruden is running. 

Oh, and then they flip the script and complain if he holds the ball too long; well you kind of have to hold on a bit longer if you want to take the deep shot.

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You could argue that the number of completions or completion percentage is due to check downs but not passes thrown. Passes thrown is completely reliant on play calling.

I like how many complain about the checkdowns and quick throws, but that's a *feature* not a bug of the West Coast offense. Which is what Gruden is running. 

Oh, and then they flip the script and complain if he holds the ball too long; well you kind of have to hold on a bit longer if you want to take the deep shot.

Don’t forget when he takes the deep shot his arm is too weak to throw in stride... 

Otherwise decent recap.

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Looks like I'm not the only one getting frustrated with Gruden.

https://www.firstcoastnews.com/article/s...g9O8Xey7_o

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Looks like I'm not the only one getting frustrated with Gruden.

https://www.firstcoastnews.com/article/s...g9O8Xey7_o

But but but he is the best we've ever had!!!

People forget last year we were praising DeFilippo early in the season too. Also, the guy gets so much hate around here when he built that offense for Foles, not Minshew.
Gruden doesn't really look like an upgrade, they are about the same.

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I am a fan, not a cheerleader.

Looks like I'm not the only one getting frustrated with Gruden.

https://www.firstcoastnews.com/article/s...g9O8Xey7_o

But but but he is the best we've ever had!!!

People forget last year we were praising DeFilippo early in the season too. Also, the guy gets so much hate around here when he built that offense for Foles, not Minshew.
Gruden doesn't really look like an upgrade, they are about the same.

I think the Washington firing broke him.

I mean what OC in their right mind would have a RB that sees 40% of the snaps only get 6 carries the entire season. You are basically telling the defense to defend the pass whenever Thompson is on the field.

And people wonder why Minshew hasn't looked as sharp. He is constantly trying to throw against a defense that already knows what to defend against.

It's a wonder Minshew has been able to do what he has with an OC that is undermining his ability to make plays throwing the ball due to his incompetence.

He is making Wash look like the best coordinator on the team.

Unbelievable.

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I do agree with Predator that play calling the last couple games have been bad. I like Gruden and what he did the first 2 games, these last couple have been pretty bad though

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But but but he is the best we've ever had!!!

People forget last year we were praising DeFilippo early in the season too. Also, the guy gets so much hate around here when he built that offense for Foles, not Minshew.
Gruden doesn't really look like an upgrade, they are about the same.

I think the Washington firing broke him.

I mean what OC in their right mind would have a RB that sees 40% of the snaps only get 6 carries the entire season. You are basically telling  the defense to defend the pass whenever Thompson is on the field.

And people wonder why Minshew hasn't looked as sharp. He is constantly trying to throw against a defense that already knows what to defend against.

It's a wonder Minshew has been able to do what he has with an OC that is undermining his ability to make plays throwing the ball due to his incompetence.

He is making Wash look like the best coordinator on the team.

Unbelievable.

I disagree.  Go back and watch the Houston game.  They were loading up against the run and daring us to throw it.  They knew they had been gashed by the run all year and they knew we had been running it well.  They schemed to take it away from us more than we gave up on it.

I am by no means a Gruden apologist.  That 4th down Wildcat run-pass option was absolutely disgraceful... I 100% agree with you on that.  But for the most part, they just shut our run down and forced us to move on from it.  You can argue we moved away from it too early, but I was not screaming at the TV to run the damn ball in the 2nd half. It wasn't working.

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This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.

But but but he is the best we've ever had!!!

People forget last year we were praising DeFilippo early in the season too. Also, the guy gets so much hate around here when he built that offense for Foles, not Minshew.
Gruden doesn't really look like an upgrade, they are about the same.

I think the Washington firing broke him.

I mean what OC in their right mind would have a RB that sees 40% of the snaps only get 6 carries the entire season. You are basically telling  the defense to defend the pass whenever Thompson is on the field.

And people wonder why Minshew hasn't looked as sharp. He is constantly trying to throw against a defense that already knows what to defend against.

It's a wonder Minshew has been able to do what he has with an OC that is undermining his ability to make plays throwing the ball due to his incompetence.

He is making Wash look like the best coordinator on the team.

Unbelievable.

Does anybody else get the feeling maybe Gruden is trying to get Doug fired so he will get the interim job?

Jason Garrett is pretty well known to have done this in Dallas when he was under Wade Phillips.

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Just look at Justin Herbert. They're down 3 of their O-Line, star RB, and even Keenan got hurt today... and this kid just knows how to ball. That arm strength is great. He looks like a franchise QB.

While I love Minshew and the guy he is... he just doesn't look like a franchise QB.

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Yep in one quarter Herbert made 3 or 4 throws that Minshew simply doesn't have the capacity to make. World of difference.

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Yep in one quarter Herbert made 3 or 4 throws that Minshew simply doesn't have the capacity to make. World of difference.

Herbert can make throws that most QBs in this league cant

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I think the Washington firing broke him.

I mean what OC in their right mind would have a RB that sees 40% of the snaps only get 6 carries the entire season. You are basically telling  the defense to defend the pass whenever Thompson is on the field.

And people wonder why Minshew hasn't looked as sharp. He is constantly trying to throw against a defense that already knows what to defend against.

It's a wonder Minshew has been able to do what he has with an OC that is undermining his ability to make plays throwing the ball due to his incompetence.

He is making Wash look like the best coordinator on the team.

Unbelievable.

I disagree.  Go back and watch the Houston game.  They were loading up against the run and daring us to throw it.  They knew they had been gashed by the run all year and they knew we had been running it well.  They schemed to take it away from us more than we gave up on it.

I am by no means a Gruden apologist.  That 4th down Wildcat run-pass option was absolutely disgraceful... I 100% agree with you on that.  But for the most part, they just shut our run down and forced us to move on from it.  You can argue we moved away from it too early, but I was not screaming at the TV to run the damn ball in the 2nd half.  It wasn't working.

IMHO, the Jaguars Kicking situation as it unfolded led to a chain reaction of events in yesterday's game that changed the complexion of the game. The 4th Down Wildcat run-pass option made a bad Jags situation much worse. The end result was the Texans were able to build a two score lead and hence were able to play to their strengths against Gardner Minshew II and the Jags overall passing game. 

I have plenty of doubts the Lions can execute a similar Defensive strategy effectively enough as the Texans did ( that much more after D.J. Chark was sidelined with an ankle injury. ) if Chark plays and is relatively healthy.  The Texans, with the array of their blitzes and overall pressures, substantionally prevented Minshew from playing to his strengths.  

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I think the Washington firing broke him.

I mean what OC in their right mind would have a RB that sees 40% of the snaps only get 6 carries the entire season. You are basically telling  the defense to defend the pass whenever Thompson is on the field.

And people wonder why Minshew hasn't looked as sharp. He is constantly trying to throw against a defense that already knows what to defend against.

It's a wonder Minshew has been able to do what he has with an OC that is undermining his ability to make plays throwing the ball due to his incompetence.

He is making Wash look like the best coordinator on the team.

Unbelievable.

I disagree.  Go back and watch the Houston game.  They were loading up against the run and daring us to throw it.  They knew they had been gashed by the run all year and they knew we had been running it well.  They schemed to take it away from us more than we gave up on it.

I am by no means a Gruden apologist.  That 4th down Wildcat run-pass option was absolutely disgraceful... I 100% agree with you on that.  But for the most part, they just shut our run down and forced us to move on from it.  You can argue we moved away from it too early, but I was not screaming at the TV to run the damn ball in the 2nd half.

They aren't stacking the box and daring you to pass the 40% of the time that Thompson is out there because they already know what to defend.

It also makes the odds of a run go up significantly during the other 60% so it would make perfect sense based on odds to stack the box a lot when Thompson is on the sideline.

It's what happens when your incompetent OC telegraphs 40% of the plays.

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Yep in one quarter Herbert made 3 or 4 throws that Minshew simply doesn't have the capacity to make. World of difference.

Herbert can make throws that most QBs in this league cant

That’s what we need here...long overdue!

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Yep in one quarter Herbert made 3 or 4 throws that Minshew simply doesn't have the capacity to make. World of difference.

Herbert can make throws that most QBs in this league cant

A lot can't, but a lot can. Get one of them that can.

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I disagree.  Go back and watch the Houston game.  They were loading up against the run and daring us to throw it.  They knew they had been gashed by the run all year and they knew we had been running it well.  They schemed to take it away from us more than we gave up on it.

I am by no means a Gruden apologist.  That 4th down Wildcat run-pass option was absolutely disgraceful... I 100% agree with you on that.  But for the most part, they just shut our run down and forced us to move on from it.  You can argue we moved away from it too early, but I was not screaming at the TV to run the damn ball in the 2nd half.

They aren't stacking the box and daring you to pass the 40% of the time that Thompson is out there because they already know what to defend.

It also makes the odds of a run go up significantly during the other 60% so it would make perfect sense based on odds to stack the box a lot when Thompson is on the sideline.

It's what happens when your incompetent OC telegraphs 40% of the plays.

Think about it this way:  if you were a defensive coordinator game planning our offense... what would you do?  

You'd look at our offense an evaluate it first.  So far this season, we have had a decent running game with a nice little find at RB as a rookie free agent, and an improved O-Line (particularly in the running game at least).  Our passing game is West Coast philosophy (i.e. short, quick passing game, occasional shots and lots of check downs).  Most of our passing yards have been from yards after catch on short routes and check downs.  How would you stop this?

Answer:  Single high safety with the SS down, box loaded, and a Cover 3 zone behind it.  Occasional zone or man blitz.  You could play Cover 2 against us if you felt good about your corners tackling against outside runs.  That is exactly how Houston defended us and shut our running game down.  That is also similar to what Miami did to us.  I did not get to see the whole Cincy game, so I'm not sure there.  They are daring Minshew to throw deep... no one appears to be afraid of that.  They are allowing short completions that can be tackled quickly (hence Minshew's high completion %), but are not afraid of him taking deep shots.  In other words, they took pour running game away, dared us to throw deep, and we didn't get it done.  I am a little afraid the "book" is out on Minshew now.  He is going to have to show he can expand his game and hurt teams downfield, or it will get worse.

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This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.

Herbert can make throws that most QBs in this league cant

A lot can't, but a lot can. Get one of them that can.

Wasnt you the guy that not that long ago that said arm strength wasn't one of the more important traits for a QB?

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