If you get the chance, re-watch the NFL 75th anniversary special.

Former Raiders owner Al Davis talked about scouting Namath when he (Namath) was in college and raved about his passing ability.

Oh, I loved the AFL.  And I've seen that piece.

I loved Lance Alworth, Kenny Stabler, Cliff Branch, Don Maynard, George Sauer, Joe Namath, John Hadl.  I could rattle off 100 names that most people on this board have never heard of.  My favorite teams were the Jets, Chargers, and Raiders.  They always seemed to be on the national games on NBC.  It's ironic that the 'weaker league' now has some of the more dominant teams now.  Although, it's all different.

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I remember both of those guys very well actually…. And it mainly has to do with their big plays to win a SB. Maybe we should get Foles in the HOF? Where’s Ronster?!

If Namath doesn’t win that 1 game, he likely isn’t in the Hall and I think that speaks pretty loudly. 1 game shouldn’t determine if a player makes the HOF and yet, here we are.

You're really doing your best to downplay the significance of that 'one win'.  I guess that's you prerogative.  

How many of those players that you mentioned were largely responsible for the landscape of the entire league?  Hell, two leagues.

I’m downplaying the notion that a single win gives a person the credentials to make the HOF.

This is more an indictment on the HOF than it is one against Namath.

Someone didn’t give Ken Griffey JR a HOF vote because Gehrig didn’t get a unanimous vote so neither should Griffey. It’s all baffling to me.

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Oh, I loved the AFL.  And I've seen that piece.

I loved Lance Alworth, Kenny Stabler, Cliff Branch, Don Maynard, George Sauer, Joe Namath, John Hadl.  I could rattle off 100 names that most people on this board have never heard of.  My favorite teams were the Jets, Chargers, and Raiders.  They always seemed to be on the national games on NBC.  It's ironic that the 'weaker league' now has some of the more dominant teams now.  Although, it's all different.

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You're really doing your best to downplay the significance of that 'one win'.  I guess that's you prerogative.  

How many of those players that you mentioned were largely responsible for the landscape of the entire league?  Hell, two leagues.

I’m downplaying the notion that a single win gives a person the credentials to make the HOF.

This is more an indictment on the HOF than it is one against Namath.

Someone didn’t give Ken Griffey JR a HOF vote because Gehrig didn’t get a unanimous vote so neither should Griffey. It’s all baffling to me.

And you still focus one 'that one win'.

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If you get the chance, re-watch the NFL 75th anniversary special.

Former Raiders owner Al Davis talked about scouting Namath when he (Namath) was in college and raved about his passing ability.

Oh, I loved the AFL.  And I've seen that piece.

I loved Lance Alworth, Kenny Stabler, Cliff Branch, Don Maynard, George Sauer, Joe Namath, John Hadl.  I could rattle off 100 names that most people on this board have never heard of.  My favorite teams were the Jets, Chargers, and Raiders.  They always seemed to be on the national games on NBC.  It's ironic that the 'weaker league' now has some of the more dominant teams now.  Although, it's all different.

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I am in awe.

I only watched many of the AFL guys like Alworth, Maynard, Sauer, Hadl, and others through NFL Films.

My football frame of reference begins mid to late 70s- '77 to be specific.

I have some recordings of some late 60s early 70s games (SB III and VII).

But those are only snapshots of those guys careers.  I wish I could have seen them over the course of their careers.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Oh, I loved the AFL.  And I've seen that piece.

I loved Lance Alworth, Kenny Stabler, Cliff Branch, Don Maynard, George Sauer, Joe Namath, John Hadl.  I could rattle off 100 names that most people on this board have never heard of.  My favorite teams were the Jets, Chargers, and Raiders.  They always seemed to be on the national games on NBC.  It's ironic that the 'weaker league' now has some of the more dominant teams now.  Although, it's all different.

---

I am in awe.

I only watched many of the AFL guys like Alworth, Maynard, Sauer, Hadl, and others through NFL Films.

My football frame of reference begins mid to late 70s- '77 to be specific.

I have some recordings of some late 60s early 70s games (SB III and VII).

But those are only snapshots of those guys careers.  I wish I could have seen them over the course of their careers.

The AFL was a fun league to watch.  I was a huge fan.  The Jets were almost always on because we were only 90 miles from NY.  So, unless somebody actually saw Namath play....  Whatever.  They're entitled to their opinions.

Probably contributing to my AFL fandom was the fact the the Eagles sucked when I was growing up in Philly.  Boy there were some horrible players on those Birds teams in the 60's and 70's.  You think the Jags have had bad QBs.  Hah!!  That, and they still had the stupid rule that you couldn't televise home games unless they were sold out.

There were also some great announcer teams that ending up doing NFL broadcasts eventually.

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You forget, it is the Hall of FAME, not the Hall of the Best of the Best. Unfortunately Fame and Noteriety are a factor.

So then David Tyree should be in the HOF too? He has, arguably, the biggest catch in SB history. Or Santonio Holmes.

There have been plenty of super famous and cool players who aren’t in the HOF because their skill level isn’t high enough.

This isn’t necessarily a gripe with Namath but the HOF in general for most sports. There’s never a real criteria and how your perceived is sometimes more important. TO wasn’t a first ballot HOFer which is absolutely insane. All because he wasn’t very liked at the moment.

That Super Bowl certainly plays a large part in the legend of Joe Namath, but I disagree with the implication that he wasn't a great QB.  Did David Tyree win multiple league MVP awards or ever make it to a Pro Bowl?  You have to look at players in the era that they played, and Namath has two MVP awards, five Pro Bowls, one First Team All-Pro and MVP in the Super Bowl win.  He's more than just that one big game.

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Terry Bradshaw 51.9%
Johnny Unitas 54.6%
Joe Namath 50.1%

Bradshaw's career was played from 1970-1983.
Joe Namath played from 1965-1977.
Johnny Unitas played from 1956-1973.

Prior to the NFL rules changes in 1978, CBs could maul WRs all the way down field, as opposed to the one chuck rule we see today.

Prior to those 1978 rules changes, offensive linemen could not extend their arms while pass blocking.

http://www.footballperspective.com/tag/1...s-changes/



The game was VASTLY different before those rules changes, and that's not even factoring in the concussion mitigation and QB protection measures implemented in the Goodell era.

The Hall of Famers you list above played their entire careers (Bradshaw the bulk of his)  under rules that made it far more difficult to pass the ball than what you see now.  The pro game was a primarily a running game back then.

Even with the vast differences in the rules, most of which have the effect of neutering defenses, every guy you listed STILL had higher completion percentages than Tebow.  Even with those differences, all three of the QBs you named won at least one NFL Championship/Super Bowl.  Tebow?  Not so much.

It's spectacularly disingenuous to make such a comparison without offering the context, to say nothing of insulting, considering Tebow was nowhere near the passer these guys were.  Watch NFL films clips of those guys.  Unitas invented the two minute drill.  Namath and Bradshaw were two great deep ball throwers. 

Next time, make that argument to someone who doesn't remember those rules changes or understand the impact those rules changes have had.

Alot of the completion percentage increase is simply due to the short yardage West Coast Offense dink and duck.
So sure yeah 3 yard 5 yard pass, 10 yard pass increase the percentage.

But what Denver was running was read option/wildcat whatever you want to call it where the shortyardage was coming from Tebow,McGheee, etc. No reason to pass shortyardage when you can run and get yards and eat clock.  So his throws were all intermeidate to long throws which are lower completion percentages for everyone.

Once again you conveniently over look this in your analysis.

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Bradshaw's career was played from 1970-1983.
Joe Namath played from 1965-1977.
Johnny Unitas played from 1956-1973.

Prior to the NFL rules changes in 1978, CBs could maul WRs all the way down field, as opposed to the one chuck rule we see today.

Prior to those 1978 rules changes, offensive linemen could not extend their arms while pass blocking.

http://www.footballperspective.com/tag/1...s-changes/



The game was VASTLY different before those rules changes, and that's not even factoring in the concussion mitigation and QB protection measures implemented in the Goodell era.

The Hall of Famers you list above played their entire careers (Bradshaw the bulk of his)  under rules that made it far more difficult to pass the ball than what you see now.  The pro game was a primarily a running game back then.

Even with the vast differences in the rules, most of which have the effect of neutering defenses, every guy you listed STILL had higher completion percentages than Tebow.  Even with those differences, all three of the QBs you named won at least one NFL Championship/Super Bowl.  Tebow?  Not so much.

It's spectacularly disingenuous to make such a comparison without offering the context, to say nothing of insulting, considering Tebow was nowhere near the passer these guys were.  Watch NFL films clips of those guys.  Unitas invented the two minute drill.  Namath and Bradshaw were two great deep ball throwers. 

Next time, make that argument to someone who doesn't remember those rules changes or understand the impact those rules changes have had.

Alot of the completion percentage increase is simply due to the short yardage West Coast Offense dink and duck.
So sure yeah 3 yard 5 yard pass, 10 yard pass increase the percentage.

But what Denver was running was read option/wildcat whatever you want to call it where the shortyardage was coming from Tebow,McGheee, etc. No reason to pass shortyardage when you can run and get yards and eat clock.  So his throws were all intermeidate to long throws which are lower completion percentages for everyone.

Once again you conveniently over look this in your analysis.

Why are you lying?

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Back in the day, the defense would take your head off literally. The era that I miss the most though is the 90s. Great foot ball

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No. I’m a Bucs season ticket holder and a Cowboys fan.  But if he doesn’t get cut I will trade Bucs tix for Jags tix straight up.

Doesn't sound like you're a bucs fan if you're ready to give up season tickets so readily.

I’m not. I said I was a Cowboys fan.  The Hard Rock comps me on Bucs home game weekends.  Dallas is too far from Gainesville…

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Back in the day, the defense would take your head off literally. The era that I miss the most though is the 90s. Great foot ball

yeah, someone like Tom Brady probably wouldn't have lasted under pre 90s NFL defensive rules.

Same thing with KD in basketball. The physicality of the game would have been too much for their scrawny bodies.

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I am in awe.

I only watched many of the AFL guys like Alworth, Maynard, Sauer, Hadl, and others through NFL Films.

My football frame of reference begins mid to late 70s- '77 to be specific.

I have some recordings of some late 60s early 70s games (SB III and VII).

But those are only snapshots of those guys careers.  I wish I could have seen them over the course of their careers.

The AFL was a fun league to watch.  I was a huge fan.  The Jets were almost always on because we were only 90 miles from NY.  So, unless somebody actually saw Namath play....  Whatever.  They're entitled to their opinions.

Probably contributing to that was the fact the the Eagles sucked when I was growing up in Philly.  Boy there were some horrible players on those Birds teams in the 60's and 70's.  You think the Jags have had bad QBs.  Hah!!  That, and they still had the stupid rule that you couldn't televise home games unless they were sold out.

There were also some great announcer teams that ending up doing NFL broadcasts eventually.

I feel similarly about the USFL-being a fun league to watch.  Some great talent came through that league, too, though obviously it didn't have the longevity/stability of the AFL.

But one team I'd like to have seen are those KC Chiefs teams.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Bradshaw's career was played from 1970-1983.
Joe Namath played from 1965-1977.
Johnny Unitas played from 1956-1973.

Prior to the NFL rules changes in 1978, CBs could maul WRs all the way down field, as opposed to the one chuck rule we see today.

Prior to those 1978 rules changes, offensive linemen could not extend their arms while pass blocking.

http://www.footballperspective.com/tag/1...s-changes/



The game was VASTLY different before those rules changes, and that's not even factoring in the concussion mitigation and QB protection measures implemented in the Goodell era.

The Hall of Famers you list above played their entire careers (Bradshaw the bulk of his)  under rules that made it far more difficult to pass the ball than what you see now.  The pro game was a primarily a running game back then.

Even with the vast differences in the rules, most of which have the effect of neutering defenses, every guy you listed STILL had higher completion percentages than Tebow.  Even with those differences, all three of the QBs you named won at least one NFL Championship/Super Bowl.  Tebow?  Not so much.

It's spectacularly disingenuous to make such a comparison without offering the context, to say nothing of insulting, considering Tebow was nowhere near the passer these guys were.  Watch NFL films clips of those guys.  Unitas invented the two minute drill.  Namath and Bradshaw were two great deep ball throwers. 

Next time, make that argument to someone who doesn't remember those rules changes or understand the impact those rules changes have had.

Alot of the completion percentage increase is simply due to the short yardage West Coast Offense dink and duck.
So sure yeah 3 yard 5 yard pass, 10 yard pass increase the percentage.

But what Denver was running was read option/wildcat whatever you want to call it where the shortyardage was coming from Tebow,McGheee, etc. No reason to pass shortyardage when you can run and get yards and eat clock.  So his throws were all intermeidate to long throws which are lower completion percentages for everyone.

Once again you conveniently over look this in your analysis.

Let's take everything you say here completely at face value for the moment.

1.  The WCO principles to which you refer did not begin to spread throughout the league until after Bill Walsh won his first Super Bowl with the 49ers in 1981.  The more successful the 49ers were in the 80s, the more assistants got hired around the league like Mike Holmgren and Dennis Green.  They brought those principles to the various teams.  None of the three guys you mentioned benefitted from those principles, as Unitas and Namath played their entire careers before Walsh became head coach at San Francisco in 1979. While teams didn't pass as much back in the 60s and 70s as they do now, the deep pass was a far more prominent role in pro offenses then.

2.  The WCO became so successful and so ubiquitous throughout football, many of its principles were incorporated into offenses even though they may not technically be West Coast Offenses.  Tebow's coach in Denver, Josh McDaniels, came from New England, where Brady dinked and dunked throughout the bulk of his career.  Even though Tebow may not have been in a WCO and may have used read option principles, to suggest the WCO had no influence on the philosophy on any  level is misguided and naive.


3.  Even assuming Tebow derived NO benefit whatsoever from the WCO principles you cite, it is beyond question he benefitted from playing his entire career under the 1978 rules changes.  Namath and Unitas retired from football before those changes were instituted, and most of Bradshaw's career was already over when those rules were implemented.  When those rules were implemented, Bradshaw won two more Super Bowls, including two Super Bowl MVPs for SB XIII and XIV.  Tebow?  Not so much.  Furthermore, Namath's, Unitas, and Bradshaw's receivers did NOT benefit from the anti concussion rules implemented by Tagliabue and Goodell.  There were no "defenseless receivers."  If you were a receiver and you jumped for a pass, you were liable to get blasted by a defender.  Tebow's receivers got far more protection.  There were far fewer protections for QBs back when they played.  Glancing blows to the head, etc. were not penalized.  Intentional grounding rules were for more restrictive for QBs than they have been since Tebow was in the league.  Back then, even if you were outside of the pocket/tackle box and you threw the ball beyond the line of scrimmage, you could still be called for intentional grounding if it was obvious you were trying to avoid the sack.  Tebow wasn't hindered by such an interpretation/enforcement of the rules.  During the Namath, Unitas and Bradshaw eras, the headslap-a move used prominently by Hall of Fame DE Deacon Jones-was legal.  So offensive linemen could not extend their arms to block nor could they hold the way they can now, defenders could pop them in the heads while rushing the passer.

Within that context, there is ZERO excuse for Tebow to have below a 50% completion rate.  That is reflected in the overwhelming lack of interest in him by the majority of NFL teams once his career in Denver was over.

He simply could not play the position effectively at the NFL level, which is why he was out of the league for nine years and is why he is trying out at TE now. Tebow cultists' obdurate inability/refusal to grasp this causes much of the antipathy towards Tebow evident even now.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Body bag.

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I came to page 113 to see if Tebow did anything but instead I read about the AFL.

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I came to page 113 to see if Tebow did anything but instead I read about the AFL.

Isn't it better to read about people doing something good in football than it is to read about a guy who has done nothing in the game when on a Pro Football board?

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Back on topic, Tim Tebow, eh? Eh!?

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Who?

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Back on topic,  Tim Tebow, eh?  Eh!?

The only way to get rid of this problem once and and for all is to get him to say Mit Wobet..

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Who?

That’s right! That’s the spirit!  Y’all have your goals of 150.  I’m thinking bigger.  I want to see an infinity sign on this thread.

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Back on topic,  Tim Tebow, eh?  Eh!?

The only way to get rid of this problem once and and for all is to get him to say Mit Wobet..

I’ll be honest, I’ve no clue what you’re talking about.  But I’m glad I can express that in this thread.  Very briefly I googled it.  Seems like you social media-ers say all kinds of funky stuff that I don’t understand.  I finally figured out the [BLEEP] poster thing.  Maybe, with a collective effort, I can figure out how to send one of these electric mails.

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