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Draft Speculation (merged threads)
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(04-26-2022, 10:25 PM)Jag149 Wrote:(04-26-2022, 07:49 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: 1. Even if we are in a nickel most of the time, Walker will have no place to play when we are in a base 3-4. He's certainly not an OLB and we are already loaded at 3-4 DE and NT. If I'm spending a #1 overall pick on a player, I want him in there every down. Hutchinson can play every down in both schemes. While I wouldn't be happy about drafting an OG #1 overall, I could at least deal with Ickey being picked, since he is my top rated OG. As long as he isn't used at LT, because he does not work well in space and is an average pass protector at best. Moving him inside to OG would allow him to work in a "phone booth" and would maximize his power and nastiness that he possesses. I don't feel the same about Evan Neal though. I'm not high on him at all and wouldn't even touch him at #33. With that said, I still don't see such a move being that beneficial to Trevor Lawrence. I believe 65% of the struggles of the O-Line last season could be directly attributed to Jawaan Taylor. He was visibly terrible and has been from the time we drafted him. Simply by moving him to the bench and replacing him with Walker Little should create a huge improvement in protection for our QB, but who is Trevor gonna throw to? I don't think drafting an OG would keep keep us on the field more, no matter how good they were, because we still lack receivers who can get open. The main issue our offense had last season was the lack of a running game when Robinson got injured and a complete lack of talent at WR and TE. We've done very little to change that. We've brought in an overpriced, average slot receiver and a TE with potential (Engram), but he's only on a 1 year deal. Hardly an investment in the future. IMO, a much better way to truly help the offense would be to draft a WR like Jameson Williams. If we're looking for a "homerun" pick among a sea of potential players with no standouts, why not address our biggest need with a guy most of the board had been clamoring for before he got injured? He's way, way ahead of schedule on his rehab and could be this team's version of CeeDee Lamb for the immediate future. I just think when people talk about giving Lawrence some help, the best way to do that would be giving him much, much better receivers than what we had last season. I'm certainly not advocating ignoring the O-Line. I'm not at all. I just believe good interior O-Line players could be found in the middle rounds of the draft and a swing tackle could be found in the later rounds. Taking an OG at #1 overall, just makes no sense to me. Yes, we'd be getting a good player. That is undeniable, but how much better would he be than an OG we could get in round 3 or 4 and how much of an offensive impact would an OG make in our offense compared to a big time WR? We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today! (04-26-2022, 11:39 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote:(04-26-2022, 10:25 PM)Jag149 Wrote: Since I am in the minority that favor going with offensive line, I'll take a crack at it. You play Ickey at OG. Giving us Cam, Scherff, Ickey Little/Taylor. Also Shatley/draftee at center. Ickey or Neal can most likely jump right in at guard, tackle in a pinch but will need some pass protection refinement. This gives them time to do that. It should give us a solid offensive line for the first time in a while. This will help the running backs, help our QB and let the receivers get downfield better. In crunch time last year they had no chance getting downfield. This will help our offense stay on the field more (we were 31st in time of possession) and score more as well. It will help our defense as the offense will be less prone to go 3 and out most of the first half. The D gave up 27 ppg last year. If they improve by 6 points down to 21 they would have ranked between #7 and #15 last year. (LA was #15) I can believe by the offense staying on the field more and actually scoring more we can get half of that. The offense only average 14.something last year and needs to get into the mid 20's. If they don't I don't care how good the D is we will be here again next year. Drafting an edge rusher while a real need will not help them do that and the defense will continue to be stressed every game by the offense not able to move the ball when the game is in doubt. The draft we went with Fowler, Scherff was drafted right after that, we just paid him how much? Looking at this year's prospects since there really is no true #1's I think of our pick as a top 10 pick not the magical #1. Who cares where Little was drafted if he plays a part in providing a solid O line for our offense. Thinking like that (pride) will keep us in the bottom third of the league forever. Yea I know I have a crackpot scheme...LOL Like they say there are multiple ways to skin a cat. Offensive defects I saw last year were TE, WR, RB and O-line. Also a disconnected coach over his head and a rookie QB thrown to the wolves. That is a lot of defects, but we did only score 14 ppg. TE is fixed for next year with Arnold and Engram. We can find another later in draft. WR also can be found later, The top heavy WR comment was just another smoke screen to make other people nervous. We will need to be drafting at least 1 or 2 for the next few years. I would do that later in the draft this year though as the ones from this FA class and already on the roster will benefit from this new coaching staff. Lets face it Treavor couldn't throw any timing passes except to Marvin because the other guys may not be where they were suppose to be. (depth angle etc) No matter how fast or skilled a WR is if there is no time the routes can't develop or we are restricted to short routes. RB can come later in the draft too. I can remember Denver having a run many years ago of 6th round picks just tearing up the league. That leaves O-line. This is where we have different opinions of how we should go. I believe we can find what we need for a DE - LB etc later in the draft. I do not believe we can find the o-line personnel later. We draft one of those 2 and we will get a starter at guard this year and for many more years that can be groomed to kick outside in the future. It would also with what we already have on the roster give us the quality depth we need for the season. It also may make one of them disposable. The personnel we would get later in the draft would not be as flexible. So really the only differences we have is the depth of o-linemen and DE's in this draft. I truly expect 8 to 12 o-linemen to go before we see pick #33. Ways to skin a cat .... ![]()
A new broom always sweeps clean.
(04-27-2022, 01:05 AM)Jag149 Wrote:(04-26-2022, 11:39 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: While I wouldn't be happy about drafting an OG #1 overall, I could at least deal with Ickey being picked, since he is my top rated OG. As long as he isn't used at LT, because he does not work well in space and is an average pass protector at best. Moving him inside to OG would allow him to work in a "phone booth" and would maximize his power and nastiness that he possesses. I don't feel the same about Evan Neal though. I'm not high on him at all and wouldn't even touch him at #33. No, by far our biggest difference is the notion that we could find a WR later in the draft. I believe there is a substantial dropoff in receivers after Williams, Olave, Garrett and London and a COLOSSAL drop-off after Dotson. Other than those 5, I wouldn't even bother drafting a WR until day 3 of the draft and we'd just be praying that we get lucky on finding a receiver that would produce. I've said this receiver class is EXTREMELY top heavy months. It's not a smokescreen by the team at all. That is one area where I totally agree with them 100%. Trevor couldn't throw any timing passes, because our receivers last year were so poor at running routes and getting any separation and when he did get the ball to them, they dropped it. Remember last season when they were so incompetent they were running into one another? That can't be blamed on coaching, that is just pure ineptitude. As far as pressure by opposing defenses, probably 65% of that came via Jawaan Taylor. Benching him and replacing him with Little combined with finding interior help in the middle rounds should help a lot. The key to real improvement is finding a WR who can consistently make crucial receptions whether it be via running away from defenders with sheer speed, creating separation by running excellent routes or consistently winning contested catches. It doesn't matter to me how it gets done, we just have to do it and those 5 WR's I mentioned are the only ones I see with those qualities who don't have major flaws. Our main difference by far, is the quality of WR's in this draft, but we also differ on ways to fix the O-Line. I see plenty of good interior o-linemen who should be available between the 3rd and 5th rounds. I also see a huge drop-off in the quality of edge rushers who fit our scheme in this draft after the 2nd round. To me, that sounds like we differ on almost everything. (04-27-2022, 01:55 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote:(04-27-2022, 01:05 AM)Jag149 Wrote: Like they say there are multiple ways to skin a cat. Offensive defects I saw last year were TE, WR, RB and O-line. Also a disconnected coach over his head and a rookie QB thrown to the wolves. That is a lot of defects, but we did only score 14 ppg. I also think your assessment of the WR last year is incomplete. Yes, they were running into each other. Yes they had trouble getting separation. However, the videos of the guys running into each other or in the same space was like halfway into the season with practice squad and waiver guys who probably had few if any reps and basic understandings of the plays. Additionally, you are greatly underestimating the importance of coaching for last years offense. Yes, Bevell is a pro coach. However, he has a reputation of not using scheme to help get guys open, and not putting guys in position to get the ball where guys can do things. He has the same issues that McCarthy does. Also, given how poorly "he who should not be named" ran practices, he did not set up the young WRs like Shenault didn't get a full grasp of the offense and probably didn't implement methods to help guys learn the nuances and 2nd keys/reads on routes and plays. Also during the second losing streak, Trevor has to take some of the blame. There were some opportunities out there but he missed them. As much as I would love the Jags to get a top WR, they may be a position where just probably cannot pull it off. None of them are really worth the No. 1 pick. Way too many teams are WR needy, and most of those teams are drafting between 13 and 26. Lots of evaluators have noted there isn't a lot of top level talent to push the elite WR's down, unless somehow there is an early QB run. Baalke doesn't really ever trade up. I think there is a possibility one of the decent upside 2nd tier WR falls into the late 2nd round/early 3rd, so there is always that possibility even if seems unlikely. The solace may be if they still have a bunch of those late round picks, and just take a glut of project/upside type guys and maybe a few will pan out. Any draft pick on day 3 is a numbers game anyways. We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today!
Whether this could actually be pulled off would depend of course on players falling to us.
#1 Jameson Williams #33 Arnold Ebiketie #65 Brian Asamoah #70 Cole Strange #106 Jelani Woods #157 Zachary Thomas I just don't see anyone in the building bold enough or who values premium WRs enough to pull it off. When I made the earlier comment about Wigg's assertion that they are satisfied with their WR room for now, I didn't agree with their thinking. But I think he accurately reflects their thinking. ![]() Fix the O-Line!
(04-27-2022, 05:55 AM)I am Yoda Wrote: Whether this could actually be pulled off would depend of course on players falling to us.Woooo buddy. Now we cookin!
https://twitter.com/sethwalder/status/15...ELHTPDwpLQ
Hope you guys are ready for Walker at 1 and Walker at 33.
(04-27-2022, 09:32 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: https://twitter.com/sethwalder/status/15...ELHTPDwpLQ It's 2012 all over again. Everyone sucks. We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today! (04-27-2022, 09:32 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: https://twitter.com/sethwalder/status/15...ELHTPDwpLQ I don't think Quay is making it to 33.
(04-27-2022, 05:25 AM)rpr52121 Wrote:(04-27-2022, 01:55 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: No, by far our biggest difference is the notion that we could find a WR later in the draft. I believe there is a substantial dropoff in receivers after Williams, Olave, Garrett and London and a COLOSSAL drop-off after Dotson. Other than those 5, I wouldn't even bother drafting a WR until day 3 of the draft and we'd just be praying that we get lucky on finding a receiver that would produce. I've said this receiver class is EXTREMELY top heavy months. It's not a smokescreen by the team at all. That is one area where I totally agree with them 100%. Trevor couldn't throw any timing passes, because our receivers last year were so poor at running routes and getting any separation and when he did get the ball to them, they dropped it. Remember last season when they were so incompetent they were running into one another? That can't be blamed on coaching, that is just pure ineptitude. As far as pressure by opposing defenses, probably 65% of that came via Jawaan Taylor. Benching him and replacing him with Little combined with finding interior help in the middle rounds should help a lot. The key to real improvement is finding a WR who can consistently make crucial receptions whether it be via running away from defenders with sheer speed, creating separation by running excellent routes or consistently winning contested catches. It doesn't matter to me how it gets done, we just have to do it and those 5 WR's I mentioned are the only ones I see with those qualities who don't have major flaws. The video of the guys running into one another was not practice squad players. It was Laviska Shenault and Laquan Treadwell. Both were starters during the season. You cannot blame everything on coaching. At some point you have to look at things objectively and say that the WR group was not what we thought it would be. As far as Lawrence taking some of the blame, of course he is responsible for some of the bad play. He was a rookie that was surrounded by no talent players. That was to be expected, but his under-performing had a lot to due with the lack of talent around him. Lawrence is not blameless at all, but it's not like he was getting any help. We have the #1 overall pick. How can we not pull it off? I disagree 1000% that none of these WR's are worth the #1 pick. Had he not gotten injured, Jameson Williams would probably be the top pick in the draft. He was simply unstoppable last season and many on this board had him pegged as our selection. He's long, fast, has good hands, a great motor, consistently gets separation and runs decent routes. Isn't that everything we'd want in a WR? Yes, he tore his ACL, but just 4 months into rehab, it is reported that he is sprinting and doing agility drills, which is nothing short of miraculous. He said he's well on pace to be ready for the start of the season, so what has to change? Why can't we select him #1? I've seen plenty of talent evaluators say had he not gotten injured, he would have been the best player in the draft. Nowadays, ACL tears are not that big of a deal. It's not like this team is gonna compete anytime soon, so why not invest in the future and take the big time receiver that we so desperately need to match with our franchise QB? Personally, I don't even see a 2nd tier to this WR class. I like Skyy Moore, but he is more of a slot guy and we just spent a ton of money for Kirk to fill that spot. Other than him I like, Metchie (who is another slot guy) and Bell who is more of a big possession receiver. I see no other receiver I would even gamble on before the final day of the draft. I think that is what the 2nd tier consists of and then the talent level takes a nose dive. Finding a day 3 WR who can contribute the way we need them to contribute is a long shot, so why not throw caution to the wind and select the guy many of us wanted all along (Jameson Williams) with the #1 pick? The more I think about it, the more I think this might be the way to go. (04-27-2022, 05:55 AM)I am Yoda Wrote: Whether this could actually be pulled off would depend of course on players falling to us. While not perfect, I certainly wouldn't be mad at that kind of draft. In fact, it looks pretty good to me. Maybe I would swap out Asamoah for a bigger ILB, as I see Asamoah as more of a 4-3 WLB prospect, but I'd be very satisfied with that draft. (04-27-2022, 09:32 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: https://twitter.com/sethwalder/status/15...ELHTPDwpLQ That makes me wanna puke. (04-27-2022, 09:59 AM)Upper Wrote:(04-27-2022, 09:32 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: https://twitter.com/sethwalder/status/15...ELHTPDwpLQ God, I hope not.
FTR
Treadwell was signed, then cut. Then re-signed TO THE PRACTICE SQUAD - then later elevated due to injury.
We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today! (04-27-2022, 10:00 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote:(04-27-2022, 05:25 AM)rpr52121 Wrote:(04-27-2022, 05:55 AM)I am Yoda Wrote: Whether this could actually be pulled off would depend of course on players falling to us. Yeah. I would prefer someone like Muma or even Tindall. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ![]() Fix the O-Line!
We cannot strikeout with another top pick. Travon Walker, while he may have the highest ceiling, has strikeout potential. At worst, Hutch is Ryan Kerrigan which is a nice floor. I don't even know how this conversation of Walker at #1 is happening. Drafting a guy at #1 and asking him to be something completely different than what he was in college is right in line with #becausejaguars. Walker was never asked to be a pass rusher. His role in the UGA defense was stop the run. He has shown zero pass rush moves other than bull rush. I understand his measurables are off the charts, which is nice, but it's all just potential. We notoriously have been fully striking out with our top picks, just at least get on base with this pick.
(04-27-2022, 05:55 AM)I am Yoda Wrote: Whether this could actually be pulled off would depend of course on players falling to us. We are so good that we have the luxury of drafting a player (who fully requires on speed an quickness) that is coming off an ACL injury. Given the success we had drafting injured WRs (Marqise Lee & Dee Dee Westbrook) why wouldn't we take our chances. (04-27-2022, 07:31 AM)Cleatwood Wrote:(04-27-2022, 05:55 AM)I am Yoda Wrote: Whether this could actually be pulled off would depend of course on players falling to us.Woooo buddy. Fixed We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today!
(04-27-2022, 09:38 AM)TrivialPursuit Wrote:(04-27-2022, 09:32 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: https://twitter.com/sethwalder/status/15...ELHTPDwpLQ Throw in Walker Little to this roster and we're set. The only person missing is Jimmy JJ Walker --- DYNOMITE !!!
(04-27-2022, 03:01 PM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote:(04-27-2022, 05:55 AM)I am Yoda Wrote: Whether this could actually be pulled off would depend of course on players falling to us. If we're gonna gamble on a player, I'd much rather gamble on Williams, who dominated college competition before his injury over a guy like Travon Walker who shows no real pass rush skills, but had an impressive Combine workout ala Mike Mamula. ACL tears are nothing nowadays and Williams is way ahead of schedule in his rehab, so why not?
Here's my speculated wish list for the 2022 NFL Draft.
1st. Round - DL/PR 2nd. Round - C/G 3rd. Round - BAP (two selections) w/respect to what position we missed on within the first two rounds. 4th. Round and beyond - BAP Time Will Tell. NH3...
"AZANE"
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