The entire last drive was nothing but lasers. Elite level throws only a handful in this league makes. If that’s the guy he’s becoming screw the rest of the season, that’s a win.

And they came on the *Have to have it downs*. Big time 3rd and 4th downs.

So refreshing to see that. So many years of QB’s that couldn’t deliver on those clutch plays. He’s fun to watch..

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"If you always do what you've always done, You'll always get what you always got"

To make it easier to understand for some, this is Trevor's first 16 games vs his last 12 games. The NE game last season was week 16. So it's basically including the final clots game (week 17) of his rookie season and this season's games on the 2nd listed stats.
https://twitter.com/theryanmichael/statu...7467844608

Obviously theze stats don’t paint the whole picture eric. His decision making is juss turrible. I mean, whyz he got to run with the ball to extend a play when obviously he should have known his hindsight would show him he had someone blitzing behind him and nothing was open. Just turrible. This is just foolz gold 

Amirite lol

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As this team has taught us over the years, keep your optimism guarded. If we can pull off two wins in a row (beginning of the season doesn’t count) I’ll start to believe just a little bit.

Just a little.

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Well first off, 10 pages of posts and no clown face avatars.  Thank you Trevor. My guess is he is on the Ravens board this week calling their QB a bust.  (or waiting a bit so he can say he always thought this is the way it would go) 

The kid is getting experience and learning from it. Maybe he has people now to talk with during the week that use his mistakes as teaching moments now?  Remember Doug (after his evaluation) always said he was going to have to start from scratch with him.  I am pretty sure the last HC had no idea how to do that. 

Trevor appears now to have reads across the whole field now. At the start of the season they had cut the field in half to make it easier for him. Defenses figured this out pretty fast and adjusted.

Ok so this was game winning drive number one.    We should begin the count?

This wasn't GWD #1.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

welcome to large market popularity contests.

Yeah. We beat Baltimore. They beat... Chicago. Meh...

you mean they beat Trevor Siemann. Without Fields, that ain't "Chicago".

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So punt. Cool. That wins lots of games as we have learned the past decade.

Orrrrr take a chance scrambling as he is an athlete. He wasn’t careless with it, just got blind sided. That play is a positive to neutral 9/10.

Mahomes threw a pick on the goal line today. I assume you’d rather him start throwing away balls instead of trying to make plays too?

Turnovers happen sometimes trying to make plays, can’t let it cut your man hood off.

Mahomes didn't turn the ball over on 3rd and 8 on his own 27 down by only 2 points which lead to his team being down by two scores.

Yes, you punt it in that situation. The worst thing you can do is turn the ball over.

There was nowhere for TL to run. He should have just thrown the ball away or accepted the fact that the defenders had him dead to rights and protected the ball.

You act like it was late in the game or we were down multiple scores and it was a critical drive.

It was a blindside hit. Without all-22, I can't see what Trev saw on the scramble, but if he looks and the dude is on the dirt or engaged with a blocker, of course he should put the burners on and try to keep the drive rolling. It was a great hit by the defender, and I don't want Trevor to turn into the next Gabbert and turn turtle whenever he sees a jersey of a different color in his periphery.

Some of y'all act like the dude tried to set us back. It was a good play by the defense. That'll happen every now and again. It happens to the best players, too.

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Who gives a [BLEEP]? He overcame all of that and got the win + 2 PT conversion. [BLEEP] happens. Defenders are allowed to make plays as well. Robinson putting you into a 3rd and obvious long passing situation and then following that up by giving up on his block also hurt us there. 

Good to great QB's make mistakes and figure out a way to make up for it. He did more than enough to make up for it yesterday. Take the W and be happy. Cheers.

I give a [BLEEP].

This isn't an isolated incident.

When your QB leads the league in fumbles, that's something to be concerned about.

He had a fantastic 4th quarter and overcame this, but it has cost us games in the past, and if he doesn't get a handle on the issue (no pun intended), it will cost us more games in the future.

You can't keep making mistakes like this that put you in the hole and rely on 4th quarter heroics to get you out of it.

I'm sure even TL would admit this is an issue that he has to get better at if he is going to take the next step in his development.

He deserves credit when it is due, but he also deserves criticism over a serious issue when it's due.

How many of those fumbles were from the game played in a Tropical weather remnant, though? Remember how pitiful both sides of our line played that game?
Get your face out of the stat sheet and actually put some critical thought into the causes of the stats.

What you think is serious is absolutely not, plain and simple.

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This is the classic definition of unrealistic expectation - especially considering his rookie year situation.

It's not even remotely "unrealistic" to predict that a rookie quarterback taken #1 overall would have fewer than 17 interceptions.

Oh really? Let's break it down then, 1st pick QBs rookie season TD/INTs since 2000:

Trevor - 12/17 in 17 games
Burrow - 13/5 in 10 games
Kyler - 20/12 in 16 games
Mayfield - 27/14 in 16 games
Goff - 3/7 in 7 games
Winston - 22/15 in 16 games
Luck - 23/18 in 16 games
Newton - 21/17 in 16 games
Bradford - 18/15 in 16 games
Stafford - 13/20 in 10 games
JaMarcus - 2/4 in 4 games
Smith - 1/11 in 9 games
Eli - 6/9 in 9 games
Carson Palmer - 18/18 in 16 games* year 2, his rookie year was lost to the ACL.
Cam - 9/15 in 16 games
Vick - 2/3 in 8 games

I think you're suffering an undue influence of Recency Bias and don't remember just how bad rookie QBs play.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

This is the classic definition of unrealistic expectation - especially considering his rookie year situation.

It's not even remotely "unrealistic" to predict that a rookie quarterback taken #1 overall would have fewer than 17 interceptions.

The two of you have raised a frequent topic of discussion, but with a surprising and fascinating twist.

To confirm/refute Duke's argument, I conducted research of every QB taken #1 overall (as opposed to the 1st QB taken in a draft) over the last forty (40) years to see how many INTs each QB threw in their rookie years.

At face value, Duke is right.  It's not necessarily unrealistic to expect a rookie QB taken #! overall to throw <17 INTs in their rookie years.

Here is a listing of the QBs taken first overall, games started, games played, TD passes, and the # of INTs they threw their rookie years.

1.  1983  John Elway, 11GP, 10 GS, 7TDs, 14 INTs.
2.  1984S Steve Young 5 GP, 5 GS, 3 TDs, 8 INTs.
3.  1987  Vinny Testaverde  6 GP, 4 GS, 5 TDs, 7 INTs
4.  1989 Troy Aikman 11 GP, 11 GS 9 TDs, 18 INTs
5.  1989(S) Steve Walsh 8 GP, 5 GS, 5 TDs, 9 INTs
6.1990 Jeff George 13 GP, 12 GS, 16 TDs, 13 INTs
7.  1993 Drew Bledsoe 13 GP, 12 GS, 15 TDs, 15 INTs
8.  1998 Peyton Manning  16 GP, 16 GS, 26 TDs, 28 INTs
9.  1999 Tim Couch  15 GP, 14 GS, 15 TDs, 13 INTs
10. 2001 Michael Vick  8 GP, 2 GS, 2 TDs, 3 INTs
11.  2002 David Carr  16 GP, 16 GS, 9TDs, 15 INTs
12.  2003 Carson Palmer  0 GP, 0 GS, 0 TDs, 0 INts (ist year starting was 2004 and he played and started 13threw 18 INTs and 18 INTs
13.  2004 Eli Manning 9 GP, 7 GS, 6 TDs, 9 INTs
14.  2005 Alex Smith  9 GP, 7 GS 1 TD, 11 INTs
15.  2007 Jamarcus Russell 4 GP, 1 GS 2 TDs, 4 INTs
16.  2009 Matthew Stafford 10 GP, 10 GS, 13 TDs, 20 INTs
17.  2010 Sam Bradford 16 GP, 16 GS, 18 TDs, 15 INTs
18.  2011 Cam Newton 16 GP, `16 GS, 21 TDs, 17 INTs
19.  2012 Andrew Luck 16 GP, 16 GS, 23 TDs, 18 INTs
20.  2015 Jameis Winston 16 GP, GS 16, 22 TDs, 15 TDs
21.  2016 Jared Goff  7 GP, 7 GS, 5 TDs, 7 INTs
22.  2018 Baker Mayfield 14 GP, 13 GS, 27 TDs, 14 INTs
23.  2019 Kyler Murray  16 GP, 14 GS, 20 TDs 12 INTs
24.  2020 Joe Burrow 10 GP. 10 GS, 13 TDs, 5 INTs
25.  2021 Trevor Lawrence 16 GP, 16 GS, 12 TDs, 17 INTs

Sources:  profootballreference.com
              drafthistory.com

Notes:  Two QBs in this list-Steve Young and Steve Walsh-were selected in the supplemental draft, which translated into the selecting team's first round pick the next year. 

Of the 25 players listed, SIX (6) threw 17 INTs or more in their rookie years:  Aikman, Manning, Luck, Cam Newton and Trevor Lawrence.  Aikman and Manning are first ballot Hall of famers. having won multiple Super Bowls.  Luck made multiple Pro Bowls. Matt Stafford has made Multiple Pro Bowls and won his first Super Bowl this last season. Cam Newton made a Super Bowl and several Pro Bowls.  Though it's early, Trevor Lawrence is on a pace to be a top statistical QB this year.

Those from the list throwing less than 17 INTs their rookie seasons had vaarious reasons for the lack of INTs.  There were many who had a relatively small number of starts.  Testaverde only threw 7 INTs his rookie year, but threw a prolific number of INTs over the course of his career.  His critics called him "Interceptaverde."  He had a total of 4 starts.  Jamarcus Russell started a whopping one (1) game his rookie year, which accounts for his 4 INTs.  There are others below 17 INTs their rookie year who, in NFL terms, were less than successful.  The counterintuitive conclusion is there seems no correlation between the lack of INTs thrown by rookie #1 overall QB picks and their success.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Bro, really? That's a lot of work to just crib my notes.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Bro, really? That's a lot of work to just crib my notes.

1.  It's only cheating if you get caught.

2.  If you aren't cheating, you aren't trying!

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

the one thing that hasnt been mentioned in this thread, is after he got blasted for a fumble on a scramble, later in the game when he was rolling out he peaked behind to see if he had time to throw it safely. it was a risk pass and had kirk been 3 inches taller it's a catch as it was a good throw just not ideal for our wr sizes. so we are seeing growth and learning from past mistakes being used in game as learning.

i can't wait for the next 6 games.

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This is the classic definition of unrealistic expectation - especially considering his rookie year situation.

It's not even remotely "unrealistic" to predict that a rookie quarterback taken #1 overall would have fewer than 17 interceptions.

How many picks do you think he'd have thrown if Urban Meyer didn't throw him to the wolves in a system not tailored to a rookie much less his own strengths and weaknesses?

Even if wasn't Pederson but just a competent NFL coach in 2021 - do you think those numbers are different?  

Because that is exactly what I meant with the second half of the sentence you quoted.

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It's not even remotely "unrealistic" to predict that a rookie quarterback taken #1 overall would have fewer than 17 interceptions.

How many picks do you think he'd have thrown if Urban Meyer didn't throw him to the wolves in a system not tailored to a rookie much less his own strengths and weaknesses?

Even if wasn't Pederson but just a competent NFL coach in 2021 - do you think those numbers are different?  

Because that is exactly what I meant with the second half of the sentence you quoted.

He's credited with 3 comebacks and 4 game winning drives now in 28 starts on Pro Football Reference. The interception argument from his rookie year too is pretty wild. Urban Mayer absolutely did him no favors. Just looking at his gamelogs from last year. He had two games, including his first career start, with over 50 passing attempts. He had another three games with 40 or more pass attempts.

This is with [BLEEP] box blocking, [BLEEP] box receivers and [BLEEP] box running. The guy was entering virtually every game last year in a 6ft hole and they just threw the shovel at him, like, "Here, get us out of this mess because we clearly cannot coach nor scheme effectively at this level to help you out".

That kind of approach is acceptable in say, year two, maybe year three. He had eight games where he threw no picks. Then he had two really bad games with 4 picks tossed in each loss. The season opener on the road and then the shutout loss to the tacks where the first pick was really on Dan Arnold. So, meh. 

No point in dwelling on the past though. He's not even the same QB this year with competent coaching around him. God only knows where he's at now had it been year two entering the NFL with Pederson instead of being handed four flat tires as a rookie. We all know now it was coaching. Not the player.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

How many picks do you think he'd have thrown if Urban Meyer didn't throw him to the wolves in a system not tailored to a rookie much less his own strengths and weaknesses?

Even if wasn't Pederson but just a competent NFL coach in 2021 - do you think those numbers are different?  

Because that is exactly what I meant with the second half of the sentence you quoted.

He's credited with 3 comebacks and 4 game winning drives now in 28 starts on Pro Football Reference. The interception argument from his rookie year too is pretty wild. Urban Mayer absolutely did him no favors. Just looking at his gamelogs from last year. He had two games, including his first career start, with over 50 passing attempts. He had another three games with 40 or more pass attempts.

This is with [BLEEP] box blocking, [BLEEP] box receivers and [BLEEP] box running. The guy was entering virtually every game last year in a 6ft hole and they just threw the shovel at him, like, "Here, get us out of this mess because we clearly cannot coach nor scheme effectively at this level to help you out".

That kind of approach is acceptable in say, year two, maybe year three. He had eight games where he threw no picks. Then he had two really bad games with 4 picks tossed in each loss. The season opener on the road and then the shutout loss to the tacks where the first pick was really on Dan Arnold. So, meh. 

Not point in dwelling on the past though. He's not even the same QB this year with competent coaching around him. God only knows where he's at now had it been year two entering the NFL with Pederson instead of being handed four flat tires as a rookie. We all know now it was coaching. Not the player.

Jags would be winning the AFC South right now if Pederson was the coach for the last 2 seasons. 

But, like you said, no point in dwelling on the past. The Jags don't get the #1 pick unless they start Minshew, Glennon and Luton. Jags don't land Pederson unless they had the disaster in Urban. I'm grateful that the Jags started bums at QB in 2020 and hired Urban in 2021! Pederson/Lawrence to the moon!

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Wow. For those saying TLaw was thrown to the wolves his rookie season, I argued then that he should sit and Minshew should be QB1. I got blasted on this board by everyone saying that TLaw needed to be the starter immediately.

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Wow. For those saying TLaw was thrown to the wolves his rookie season, I argued then  that he should sit and Minshew should be QB1. I got blasted on this board by everyone saying that TLaw needed to be the starter immediately.

I wasn't opposed to him sitting for two reasons. One, Minshew was capable and could have built up even more trade value for the inevitable departure. Two, Meyer was new to the NFL and would take some time to get his [BLEEP] together, which, he never did. 

The whole thing was a disaster. Going all the way back to training camp. We knew Lawrence would be the starter on the opening day of the season. Meyer still approached it like he was at Ohio St. and Florida and pissed away valuable starting team snaps between the two of them.

Made no sense.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Wow. For those saying TLaw was thrown to the wolves his rookie season, I argued then  that he should sit and Minshew should be QB1. I got blasted on this board by everyone saying that TLaw needed to be the starter immediately.

Minshew?  You mean the liar that hid his injury?  Lawrence should sit behind a liar?

Minshew?  You mean the little guy that can't see over his own pass blockers?  Trevor should learn from a tiny boy that can't see the entire field?

Minshew?  You mean the guy that runs like he's wearing concrete cinder blocks on his feet?   Trevor should learn how to scramble from a doughy thighed slacker?

Minshew had a legit Head Coach that he had worked with the prior year and was all in on being successful.

Conversely, Lawrence, a rookie.  Came into an organization with 1 win.  An organization that just hired Coach Urban Meyer.  [BLEEP].  The greatest "Worst Hire Head Coach" of the modern Era.  [BLEEP] will go down as the worst HC of all time.  The dude did nothing.  The dude tried nothing.  The dude did not coach.  Tim Tebow.  Tim Tebow as Tight End.  He damaged our FG kicker.  He did nothing but ruin the locker room and degrade the progress of our potential. 

Lawrence along with the rest of the team was hung out to dry in 2021.  It's not even up for debate.  The entire franchise was in free fall.  Thank god we finally made a big league move and hired Pederson.

You got no clue what you're talking about.

---

Of the 25 players listed, SIX (6) threw 17 INTs or more in their rookie years:  Aikman, Manning, Luck, Cam Newton and Trevor Lawrence.  Aikman and Manning are first ballot Hall of famers. having won multiple Super Bowls.  Luck made multiple Pro Bowls. Matt Stafford has made Multiple Pro Bowls and won his first Super Bowl this last season. Cam Newton made a Super Bowl and several Pro Bowls.  Though it's early, Trevor Lawrence is on a pace to be a top statistical QB this year.

Those from the list throwing less than 17 INTs their rookie seasons had vaarious reasons for the lack of INTs.  There were many who had a relatively small number of starts.  Testaverde only threw 7 INTs his rookie year, but threw a prolific number of INTs over the course of his career.  His critics called him "Interceptaverde."  He had a total of 4 starts.  Jamarcus Russell started a whopping one (1) game his rookie year, which accounts for his 4 INTs.  There are others below 17 INTs their rookie year who, in NFL terms, were less than successful.  The counterintuitive conclusion is there seems no correlation between the lack of INTs thrown by rookie #1 overall QB picks and their success.

I think one of the big factors not listed on a stat sheet is how the team approached their young QB - how many teams embraced the role of game manager vs. gunslinger? How many chose to lean on run game or defense in lieu of relying on deep bombs? You can see with a lot of the guys who did throw a lot of picks, their coach and team gave them the keys to the car and let them drive, fully understanding that the road would be bumpy to start.

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Wow. For those saying TLaw was thrown to the wolves his rookie season, I argued then  that he should sit and Minshew should be QB1. I got blasted on this board by everyone saying that TLaw needed to be the starter immediately.

Minshew?  You mean the liar that hid his injury?  Lawrence should sit behind a liar?

Minshew?  You mean the little guy that can't see over his own pass blockers?  Trevor should learn from a tiny boy that can't see the entire field?

Minshew?  You mean the guy that runs like he's wearing concrete cinder blocks on his feet?   Trevor should learn how to scramble from a doughy thighed slacker?

Minshew had a legit Head Coach that he had worked with the prior year and was all in on being successful.

Conversely, Lawrence, a rookie.  Came into an organization with 1 win.  An organization that just hired Coach Urban Meyer.  [BLEEP].  The greatest "Worst Hire Head Coach" of the modern Era.  [BLEEP] will go down as the worst HC of all time.  The dude did nothing.  The dude tried nothing.  The dude did not coach.  Tim Tebow.  Tim Tebow as Tight End.  He damaged our FG kicker.  He did nothing but ruin the locker room and degrade the progress of our potential. 

Lawrence along with the rest of the team was hung out to dry in 2021.  It's not even up for debate.  The entire franchise was in free fall.  Thank god we finally made a big league move and hired Pederson.

You got no clue what you're talking about.

Hard to say it any better than this. +1

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"Remember Red, Hope is a good thing. Maybe the best of things. And no good thing ever dies."  - Andy Dufresne, The Shawshank Redemption

Wow. For those saying TLaw was thrown to the wolves his rookie season, I argued then  that he should sit and Minshew should be QB1. I got blasted on this board by everyone saying that TLaw needed to be the starter immediately.

BECAUSE HE DID

He was thrown to the wolves because he was trusted to learn what the wolves would do, and find a way to be better than them. We just had hot buttered backside as a shepherd over the flock last year. Now that we have a decent mentor watching over, look what's happening!

Do you honestly think the Shew and Urbz would have survived the year together, assuming we decided Trevor would sit the year and "learn"? Shew would call Urbz out for his demeanor, Urbz would get mad, and we'd have started Luton off the PS just to spite the insubordinate. I'd expect nothing less from the former coach.

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