Watch Jrob suddenly light us up on TNF.

Actually, that may be a blessing in disguise; will show Baalke to be even more of a clown then he already is

Oliver damn near beat us at home in a one point game.
Chark absolutely got the best of us yesterday.

I mean, yeah, wouldn't be shocked at all if Robinson goes off for 100+ or somehow turns into the fantasy RB of the week when he gets primarily used inside the red zone and hits pay dirt two, three times. 

I keep saying it. But, again, if this defense struggles against predominately run first teams between the tacks twice, Dallas at home and the Jets on the road? Baalke HAS to GO. The money and draft capital on defense was basically a complete selling out on getting good against the running game defensively since we play in a run heavy division. 

You [BLEEP] around and let Henry go off on you twice, a former teammate in Robinson go off on you in New York and the tinhorns get their 2nd win of the year on you? Man, somebody's [BLEEP] head needs to roll and it starts with the talent evaluator and the guy making deals with agents and players.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

our pass rush is a running joke, they need to be benched

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Just going to provide 2 links. https://www.espn.com/nfl/team/stats/_/na...-york-jets ; https://www.espn.com/nfl/team/stats/_/na...le-jaguars

ESPN links about stats on rushing. You can look it up yourself. Robinson has had a substantial year coming off his Achilles surgery when compared to the rest of the NY Jet RB squad.

NYJ - Breece Hall: 463 Total Yards. (66 yards per game) 5.8 AVG/Rush
JAX - Robinson : 340 Total Yards. (48 yards per game) 4.2 AVG/Rush

That's pretty comparable, and that's with the Jets shutting down their running game. I'm sorry, but we could have used Robinson. The Jet's have no clue what the heck they are doing.

Dumping Robinson may have looked wise in October when we pulled off the trade. But looking back on it? It was obviously a terrible move.

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Hasty has been better than JRob since the trade. Just sayin. JRob is nothing now. Dude had 4 rushes for 10 whole yards! Meanwhile, an undrafted rookie is outplaying him even with Michael Carter not playing.

JRob post achilles just isn't the same and I'm glad Baalke was able to get something for him because he might be cooked.

I don't have an issue with the Robinson trade. My concern circles back to Baalke. You're trading up to get players at positions that you're still backfilling now mid season or outright benching in favor of another player you ultimately drafted later on in Muma. That's a mismanagement of draft picks and it's bad. 

Little actually played good last year when he came in for Cam.  We should of never resigned Cam and put Little there but they wanted Cam so bad and he was horrible yesterday, and has been average at best this year where a number of games where he got destroyed like yesterday to a rookie.  It sad how many needs this team has.  On top of starters that need upgraded we seen in preseason we have the worst depth in the league

You say that but here it is he had every opportunity back in training camp to outright take a job away from Taylor at RT and he couldn't get it done. Also, again, you're correct about the lack of depth. That allllllll circles back on Baalke wheeling and dealing like Ric Flair but not actually finding any real talent that adds any actual flair to the depth chart. 

He needs to go before he does like Dave Caldwell did before he left. He'll take a defender and pass up on a top offensive lineman like Skoronski or a premier receiver like Johnston or Mayer at TE.

I'm talking about LT, not RT.  The position he was great at in college instead of trying to switch positions with him when LT needs to be upgraded.  We always draft these guys and try to play them out of position instead of just keeping them the same position the playd in college.  Fowler, Cann, Bryan, Walker etc.  We had all of these guys switch positions and all have failed.

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Just going to provide 2 links.  https://www.espn.com/nfl/team/stats/_/na...-york-jets ;  https://www.espn.com/nfl/team/stats/_/na...le-jaguars

ESPN links about stats on rushing.  You can look it up yourself.  Robinson has had a substantial year coming off his Achilles surgery when compared to the rest of the NY Jet RB squad. 

NYJ - Breece Hall:  463 Total Yards.  (66 yards per game)  5.8 AVG/Rush
JAX - Robinson  :  340 Total Yards.  (48 yards per game)  4.2 AVG/Rush

That's pretty comparable, and that's with the Jets shutting down their running game.  I'm sorry, but we could have used Robinson.  The Jet's have no clue what the heck they are doing. 

Dumping Robinson may have looked wise in October when we pulled off the trade.  But looking back on it?  It was obviously a terrible move.

Sorry but if you think Breece and JRob are comparable, you have already lost the argument.

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I don't like the J Rob trade but the running game is the least of our worries right now

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his stats were trending downward, a sign that something was up

- maybe the foot was not yet ready for the wear and tear of workload from week to week
- maybe ETN was supplanting him on the roster
- maybe the team wanted to move more toward speed and agility than straight-line power
- maybe Jrob got caught wearing a clown mask last offseason

The Jets were able to run before he got there, with Hall gradually increasing workload and hitting stats similar to early season JRob, so you can't fault their team for his lack of production. It has to be something else.

JRob was great for a year or two with us, and that's awesome. But outside of that one 50- yard carry, he hasn't done much this season for either team he's suited up for. Questioning whether or not he's done is not a matter of disrespect, it's a matter of his current ability. History don't mean much, @just ask Russ@

I already addressed everything you originally said and now you're just repeating yourself.  So if that's the case, let's agree to disagree and move on.

Here was my discussion to you that you have ignored....

• Robinson was averaging 4.3 yards per carry THIS YEAR.  Hasty has been trash besides that one TD.  
  
• Robinson carried our running game throughout September.  Go check our record in September. 
  
• ETN has become a fumble machine.  Wouldn't it be nice to have a vet RB that could teach him a thing or two?
  

If you don't want to address these points, cool.  But I just don't have the patience to read you constantly ignoring the conversation to repeat the same things I've already addressed.

If you think that trading Robinson was a good move...  OK. But the facts of this season kinda make that decision look terrible.  ETN has a case of the dropsies.  Hasty is nowhere near as good as Robinson.  Snoop is trash.  And we had to go dumpster dive for a back RB that hasn't even played since we picked  him up 2 weeks ago.  

So with all that said...  Robinson, who has been more effective than Hasty or Snoop, was traded for a 5th round pick.  Kinda seems like we'd be better off right now with Robinson than a future 5th that will probably not mean squat for us.

I've addressed the average in other threads, apologies if I chose not to continue beating the dead horse.

4.3 yd average don't mean dook when you are getting that average on 11 carries a game. We've already established that he had over 25% of his yards with us this year on two carries. If we are losing because we miss his 45-50 yards a game, the agony of losing him is worthwhile. I don't believe that is the case.

I believe you're mixing correlation with causation. JRob carried the load early, yes, but we did not win because JRob was domination in Running Back clothing. We were giving him carries when we had a lead, and the defense were the big reasons we started out so quickly. I did check our record, and we have as many wins in 5 games without him as we did in the 7 with him. Again, I am stating that neither wins nor losses in either span of time are the direct result of his absence or presence. Merely correlation.

You might want to check your work, the so-called "fumble machine" Etienne did have a fumble on Sunday, his first in five weeks. He's had 4 all season long, and only lost 2. You can allege that he is risky with contact for sure, but it's not like every series we wait with hopeless expectation that he's putting the ball on the turf. As to the vet presence, vet's jobs, in the words of Torry Holt, are to "coach em right to the bench". RB coach is there and tasked with this responsibility.

I am not saying that our RB room mandated the trade. You're right, outside of Etienne, we got pretty much a vacuum at the spot. But having that knowledge, the fact that team opted to put all their eggs in Etienne's basket has to tell you something. Either JRob wasn't a fit in their plans/scheme, they thought the injury was starting to hamper his production, they hate the owner and want to sabotage our chances to succeed, or somewhere in the middle of all those factors.

This trade wasn't about the pick. It never was. Don't concern yourself with the pick. The team opted to move on, plain and simple. The choice was made and the paths to follow were either to waive him outright, or see if anyone had any interest in his prospects. The Jets offered us something, which is always more than nothing. Would we have another win to show for keeping him around? Nobody knows. Would Etienne be a better back with JRob around? Again, nobody knows. Was the team right to trade him when they did? We can't say, definitively, yet.

What we do know is that the team took all these concerns into consideration, and decided to move on. That tells me something.

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Watch Jrob suddenly light us up on TNF.

Actually, that may be a blessing in disguise; will show Baalke to be even more of a clown then he already is

@If he hits 180 yards we hit the jackpot, right?@

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I already addressed everything you originally said and now you're just repeating yourself.  So if that's the case, let's agree to disagree and move on.

Here was my discussion to you that you have ignored....

• Robinson was averaging 4.3 yards per carry THIS YEAR.  Hasty has been trash besides that one TD.  
  
• Robinson carried our running game throughout September.  Go check our record in September. 
  
• ETN has become a fumble machine.  Wouldn't it be nice to have a vet RB that could teach him a thing or two?
  

If you don't want to address these points, cool.  But I just don't have the patience to read you constantly ignoring the conversation to repeat the same things I've already addressed.

If you think that trading Robinson was a good move...  OK. But the facts of this season kinda make that decision look terrible.  ETN has a case of the dropsies.  Hasty is nowhere near as good as Robinson.  Snoop is trash.  And we had to go dumpster dive for a back RB that hasn't even played since we picked  him up 2 weeks ago.  

So with all that said...  Robinson, who has been more effective than Hasty or Snoop, was traded for a 5th round pick.  Kinda seems like we'd be better off right now with Robinson than a future 5th that will probably not mean squat for us.

I've addressed the average in other threads, apologies if I chose not to continue beating the dead horse.

4.3 yd average don't mean dook when you are getting that average on 11 carries a game. We've already established that he had over 25% of his yards with us this year on two carries. If we are losing because we miss his 45-50 yards a game, the agony of losing him is worthwhile. I don't believe that is the case.

I believe you're mixing correlation with causation. JRob carried the load early, yes, but we did not win because JRob was domination in Running Back clothing. We were giving him carries when we had a lead, and the defense were the big reasons we started out so quickly. I did check our record, and we have as many wins in 5 games without him as we did in the 7 with him. Again, I am stating that neither wins nor losses in either span of time are the direct result of his absence or presence. Merely correlation.

You might want to check your work, the so-called "fumble machine" Etienne did have a fumble on Sunday, his first in five weeks. He's had 4 all season long, and only lost 2. You can allege that he is risky with contact for sure, but it's not like every series we wait with hopeless expectation that he's putting the ball on the turf. As to the vet presence, vet's jobs, in the words of Torry Holt, are to "coach em right to the bench". RB coach is there and tasked with this responsibility.

I am not saying that our RB room mandated the trade. You're right, outside of Etienne, we got pretty much a vacuum at the spot. But having that knowledge, the fact that team opted to put all their eggs in Etienne's basket has to tell you something. Either JRob wasn't a fit in their plans/scheme, they thought the injury was starting to hamper his production, they hate the owner and want to sabotage our chances to succeed, or somewhere in the middle of all those factors.

This trade wasn't about the pick. It never was. Don't concern yourself with the pick. The team opted to move on, plain and simple. The choice was made and the paths to follow were either to waive him outright, or see if anyone had any interest in his prospects. The Jets offered us something, which is always more than nothing. Would we have another win to show for keeping him around? Nobody knows. Would Etienne be a better back with JRob around? Again, nobody knows. Was the team right to trade him when they did? We can't say, definitively, yet.

What we do know is that the team took all these concerns into consideration, and decided to move on. That tells me something.

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Watch Jrob suddenly light us up on TNF.

Actually, that may be a blessing in disguise; will show Baalke to be even more of a clown then he already is

@If he hits 180 yards we hit the jackpot, right?@

I wish there was a way to disagree point for point with what you said.  Some arguements you make are a simple matter of opinion.  Neither of us are objectively right or wrong...

But there are other points you are making where you're missing the point entirely!

At the end of the day, when we traded Robinson, I was shocked by it, but I didn't think it was that big a deal because I assumed Hasty and Snoop would take up the slack.  But that's not what has happened.  ETN is being asked to be the work horse.  And, bro, ETN for how great a RB he is, isn't going to last 3 years as the work horse.  You know it.  I know it.  The American people know it.

And yes, ETN is currently a fumble machine.  4 fumbles in 11 games???  That's unacceptable for your work horse RB.  You know it.  I know it.  The American people know it.  As a work horse RB you should be fumbling more than 1 or 2 times per season.  ETN's ball protection is absolutely an issue.   https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/running...umble-2022  Notice how the #1 fumbler isn't even in the NFL anymore.  ETN is in the 2nd tier of RBs but he's one of the highest fumblers.  Dude, it's important.  His fumble against the Lions can very well be seen as a momentum changer.  Let's not act as those a RB fumbling so much is not a big deal.  

With everything else you mentioned, I hear ya.  You are right.  Baalke decided that Robinson was expendable.  Then after Baalke traded him, he realized he messed up and picked up Henderson.  I feel like you're ignoring certain facts in order to be OK with getting rid of Robinson.  

Robinson was never an all pro.  But he was a very good RB.  And we pushed him out too early.  That's all I'm saying.  We could have used him this season.  And based on how we have utilized (or did not utilize) Hasty and Snoop, while also picking up a Henderson on Waivers tells me that a mistake was made and Baalke was trying to fix it.

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I wish there was a way to disagree point for point with what you said.  Some arguements you make are a simple matter of opinion.  Neither of us are objectively right or wrong...

But there are other points you are making where you're missing the point entirely!

At the end of the day, when we traded Robinson, I was shocked by it, but I didn't think it was that big a deal because I assumed Hasty and Snoop would take up the slack.  But that's not what has happened.  ETN is being asked to be the work horse.  And, bro, ETN for how great a RB he is, isn't going to last 3 years as the work horse.  You know it.  I know it.  The American people know it.

And yes, ETN is currently a fumble machine.  4 fumbles in 11 games???  That's unacceptable for your work horse RB.  You know it.  I know it.  The American people know it.  As a work horse RB you should be fumbling more than 1 or 2 times per season.  ETN's ball protection is absolutely an issue.   https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/running...umble-2022  Notice how the #1 fumbler isn't even in the NFL anymore.  ETN is in the 2nd tier of RBs but he's one of the highest fumblers.  Dude, it's important.  His fumble against the Lions can very well be seen as a momentum changer.  Let's not act as those a RB fumbling so much is not a big deal.  

With everything else you mentioned, I hear ya.  You are right.  Baalke decided that Robinson was expendable.  Then after Baalke traded him, he realized he messed up and picked up Henderson.  I feel like you're ignoring certain facts in order to be OK with getting rid of Robinson.  

Robinson was never an all pro.  But he was a very good RB.  And we pushed him out too early.  That's all I'm saying.  We could have used him this season.  And based on how we have utilized (or did not utilize) Hasty and Snoop, while also picking up a Henderson on Waivers tells me that a mistake was made and Baalke was trying to fix it.

I went back and looked at JRob's stats. 1st year, 3 fumbles, last year, 4, so maybe it's best we don't have him coaching ETN up  

You're right, JRob was a very good RB. Currently, he is not.

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I wish there was a way to disagree point for point with what you said.  Some arguements you make are a simple matter of opinion.  Neither of us are objectively right or wrong...

But there are other points you are making where you're missing the point entirely!

At the end of the day, when we traded Robinson, I was shocked by it, but I didn't think it was that big a deal because I assumed Hasty and Snoop would take up the slack.  But that's not what has happened.  ETN is being asked to be the work horse.  And, bro, ETN for how great a RB he is, isn't going to last 3 years as the work horse.  You know it.  I know it.  The American people know it.

And yes, ETN is currently a fumble machine.  4 fumbles in 11 games???  That's unacceptable for your work horse RB.  You know it.  I know it.  The American people know it.  As a work horse RB you should be fumbling more than 1 or 2 times per season.  ETN's ball protection is absolutely an issue.   https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/running...umble-2022  Notice how the #1 fumbler isn't even in the NFL anymore.  ETN is in the 2nd tier of RBs but he's one of the highest fumblers.  Dude, it's important.  His fumble against the Lions can very well be seen as a momentum changer.  Let's not act as those a RB fumbling so much is not a big deal.  

With everything else you mentioned, I hear ya.  You are right.  Baalke decided that Robinson was expendable.  Then after Baalke traded him, he realized he messed up and picked up Henderson.  I feel like you're ignoring certain facts in order to be OK with getting rid of Robinson.  

Robinson was never an all pro.  But he was a very good RB.  And we pushed him out too early.  That's all I'm saying.  We could have used him this season.  And based on how we have utilized (or did not utilize) Hasty and Snoop, while also picking up a Henderson on Waivers tells me that a mistake was made and Baalke was trying to fix it.

I went back and looked at JRob's stats. 1st year, 3 fumbles, last year, 4, so maybe it's best we don't have him coaching ETN up  

You're right, JRob was a very good RB. Currently, he is not.

Can you provide the link?  I provided a link for you.  I'd love to see the number of rush attempts Robinson had versus the attempts ETN had during their rookie years.  The yards per rush versus fumbles will also be important.  And then the Yards per Game.

I'm so happy you are interested in actually determining whether or not Robinson's trade was a smart move!  

I look forward to the link you used.

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I went back and looked at JRob's stats. 1st year, 3 fumbles, last year, 4, so maybe it's best we don't have him coaching ETN up  

You're right, JRob was a very good RB. Currently, he is not.

Can you provide the link?  I provided a link for you.  I'd love to see the number of rush attempts Robinson had versus the attempts ETN had during their rookie years.  The yards per rush versus fumbles will also be important.  And then the Yards per Game.

I'm so happy you are interested in actually determining whether or not Robinson's trade was a smart move!  

I look forward to the link you used.

Oof.  Melvin Gordon leads in fumbles on just 90 carries.  Your link works fine for previous years... You can just change the year in the search window.

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I am starting to wonder if the jets realized that Robinson is not as strong of a back as before, and are purposefully limiting his touches so he doesn’t hit the yardage amount that increases the compensation to a fifth rounder.

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Every time I see sackless in the title of this thread, I read 'ball-less'. This defense has no balls.

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I went back and looked at JRob's stats. 1st year, 3 fumbles, last year, 4, so maybe it's best we don't have him coaching ETN up  

You're right, JRob was a very good RB. Currently, he is not.

Can you provide the link?  I provided a link for you.  I'd love to see the number of rush attempts Robinson had versus the attempts ETN had during their rookie years.  The yards per rush versus fumbles will also be important.  And then the Yards per Game.

I'm so happy you are interested in actually determining whether or not Robinson's trade was a smart move!  

I look forward to the link you used.

dude, go to google, type "james robinson stats", not hard to find sites with data. I tend to use pro football reference for a lot of research, they got all kinds of stuff.

I'm not stuck in the past. You could tell that JRob was not a fit for the present mold. Once Etienne was on his feet, the priority shifted. The team moved on.

Here's where I stand. Jrob was good for a us for a while. He's currently putting up quite replaceable numbers. We got a conditional 5th/6th for him. Neither side of the argument is worth fighting over. They're both insignificant.

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Can you provide the link?  I provided a link for you.  I'd love to see the number of rush attempts Robinson had versus the attempts ETN had during their rookie years.  The yards per rush versus fumbles will also be important.  And then the Yards per Game.

I'm so happy you are interested in actually determining whether or not Robinson's trade was a smart move!  

I look forward to the link you used.

dude, go to google, type "james robinson stats", not hard to find sites with data. I tend to use pro football reference for a lot of research, they got all kinds of stuff.

I'm not stuck in the past. You could tell that JRob was not a fit for the present mold. Once Etienne was on his feet, the priority shifted. The team moved on.

Here's where I stand. Jrob was good for a us for a while. He's currently putting up quite replaceable numbers. We got a conditional 5th/6th for him. Neither side of the argument is worth fighting over. They're both insignificant.

I'm not here to argue against the trade, other than, it looks like a bad one now...

I'm just here pointing out facts.

The fact is that ETN was clearly the best RB in the entire group.  ETN has been gifted by God with his physical ability.  There is no doubt.  But with that said, he's coming off an injury and hasn't been proven in the NFL yet.  With the first few games he played, he dropped balls and fumbled as well.  

Even with all that liability Caldwell decided to move on from Robinson.  Caldwell moved off Robinson all while the Coaching staff had no confidence in Hasty or Snoop.  And it's clear that the coaches still have no confidence in Hasty or Snoop.  So what does that tell you?  Probably nothing, cuz you aren't really thinking this through...  But it tells me that the coaching staff had the rug pulled out from under them.  
The fact that they immediately make ETN the work horse and only put in Hasty when ETN got hurt proves my point.  Conversely, when Robinson was on the squad the coaches shared rushes between the 2 Running Backs.

I'm just saying that hindsight is 20/20.  And if you are honest with yourself, you realize that trade of Robinson was a bad move.  A normal person would look at the dynamic between ETN and Robinson and see that this could be sustainable for at least a year and let both players work off eachother.  ETN could have learned a TON from Robinson.  Robinson would have gained trade value after proving his Achille's was no longer an issue.  

Instead, we got the worst of all of it.  We got a young RB that is coming off Lisfranc with no real subsitute and we traded the one mentor and sub he had for a 5th rounder.

Baalke made a terrible move with that one, and it's not even really a debate.

I'm not sure you know this, but there is something similar that happened in Jacksonville with 2 RBs...

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dude, go to google, type "james robinson stats", not hard to find sites with data. I tend to use pro football reference for a lot of research, they got all kinds of stuff.

I'm not stuck in the past. You could tell that JRob was not a fit for the present mold. Once Etienne was on his feet, the priority shifted. The team moved on.

Here's where I stand. Jrob was good for a us for a while. He's currently putting up quite replaceable numbers. We got a conditional 5th/6th for him. Neither side of the argument is worth fighting over. They're both insignificant.

I'm not here to argue against the trade, other than, it looks like a bad one now...

I'm just here pointing out facts.

The fact is that ETN was clearly the best RB in the entire group.  ETN has been gifted by God with his physical ability.  There is no doubt.  But with that said, he's coming off an injury and hasn't been proven in the NFL yet.  With the first few games he played, he dropped balls and fumbled as well.  

Even with all that liability Caldwell decided to move on from Robinson.  Caldwell moved off Robinson all while the Coaching staff had no confidence in Hasty or Snoop.  And it's clear that the coaches still have no confidence in Hasty or Snoop.  So what does that tell you?  Probably nothing, cuz you aren't really thinking this through...  But it tells me that the coaching staff had the rug pulled out from under them.  
The fact that they immediately make ETN the work horse and only put in Hasty when ETN got hurt proves my point.  Conversely, when Robinson was on the squad the coaches shared rushes between the 2 Running Backs.

I'm just saying that hindsight is 20/20.  And if you are honest with yourself, you realize that trade of Robinson was a bad move.  A normal person would look at the dynamic between ETN and Robinson and see that this could be sustainable for at least a year and let both players work off eachother.  ETN could have learned a TON from Robinson.  Robinson would have gained trade value after proving his Achille's was no longer an issue.  

Instead, we got the worst of all of it.  We got a young RB that is coming off Lisfranc with no real subsitute and we traded the one mentor and sub he had for a 5th rounder.

Baalke made a terrible move with that one, and it's not even really a debate.

I'm not sure you know this, but there is something similar that happened in Jacksonville with 2 RBs...

Yeah, I do, and I know it rubbed Fred the wrong way when we brought his replacement in, and that guy started taking his workload. JRob doesn't have the history or talent to make that a fair comparison, nor do the offensive schemes give this any credibility.

In hindsight, the move is insgnificant. Period. JRob wasn't in the plans, he wasn't gonna re-sign with us when his contract ended, we got little more than a ham sandwich to brag over as return from moving on, Etienne wasn't going to become Adrian Peterson because JRob was on the bench cheering him on. All of these things have zero impact on our franchise's current and long-term health. Say it with me, insignificant.

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I’m more concerned with the defense. Big game coming up. I hope we can at least stuff the run. I’m not expecting much though.

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https://twitter.com/Demetrius82/status/1...aK9rPXhb8Q

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