The Jungle is self-supported by showing advertisements via Google Adsense.
Please consider disabling your advertisement-blocking plugin on the Jungle to help support the site and let us grow!
We also show significantly less advertisements to registered users, so create your account to benefit from this!
Please consider disabling your advertisement-blocking plugin on the Jungle to help support the site and let us grow!
We also show significantly less advertisements to registered users, so create your account to benefit from this!
Questions or concerns about this ad? Take a screenshot and comment in the thread. We do value your feedback.
|
OL - 2023
|
(10-02-2023, 04:00 PM)jessepeck1213 Wrote:Yepper. I would try Shatley out at Center if Little and Robinson resolve the left side. Consider Fortner at RG. That's his more familiar position at Kentucky.(10-02-2023, 03:14 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: Scherff and Anton allowed zero pressures on Sunday. Center wise Van Pran out of Georgia and Nugent out of Michigan are trending up and holding the top two spots ranking wise. These guys are considered 2nd RD / 3rd RD options at the moment. We're in a tough spot going into the draft next year with the Ridley trade costing you one of those two picks. Doesn't look like a good FA class neither. Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk ![[Image: 4SXW6gC.png]](https://i.imgur.com/4SXW6gC.png) "What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king." We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today!
The announcers were annoying and I consider them similar to twitterosity. Have to push for engagements so over and under reactive just like us fans.
The play calling wasn't good because the oline execution was subpar. Need better line play of course but we are not the worst and we sure aren't the best. Help isn't coming, just watch and hope for improvement. No one's job is on the line at this point and we'll it is what it is. I am biased against Baalke and not sure that will change.
Birth of the Franchise - November 30, 1993
Death of the Franchise - November 29, 2011 Fans deserve better. Thanks for all the good times too many are in the past.
So I had some time to go back to last year...
Guess what? Our O-Line was graded almost exactly as this current O-Line... Preseason 2022, PFF graded us as the 26th best O-Line https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-offensive-l...tiers-2022 Preseason 2023, PFF graded us as the 26th best O-Line https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-offensive-l...-offseason But Carp, Press Taylor apologists say that this O-Line is so bad that we can't run the same offense we did last year. So obviously, PFF is wrong and Press Taylor's biggest fan is right. OK... Totally understand. PFF makes you pay for getting a deep dive into their metrics. So why don't we go to an objective source and see how they grade O-Lines. ESPN. ESPN provides analysis for O-Lines. The study of Pass Blocking and Run Blocking. Of course, this is a discussion of Pass Blocking (PB), so we'll ignore any Run Blocking (RB) metrics. ESPN did a study in 2022 regarding the PB win rate of O-Lines for the entire season. PB Win Rate is discussed here: https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2489...q-how-work And here's the 2023 current analysis of PB win rate: https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/3835...eams#teams The assertion of ESPN's analysis is that "...we (ESPN) finally have objective individual stats for linemen for their most critical tasks -- defending and attacking the passer. We can also know who is blocking whom on every snap, who was double-teamed, who got pressure from the edges and who got pressure by collapsing the pocket. The end result is that we can assess individual performance and team-level performance in the trenches separate and apart from the performance of the quarterback, receivers and secondary." On January 10, 2023 ESPN posted their analysis for O-Line individual and team metrics. Just to remind those that may not be aware. In 2022, the Jacksonville Jaguars made it the AFC Divisional Round, and only barely lost to the eventual SB champs. So, back to the ESPN analysis. From their analysis, the Jaguar PB success rate was 31st best in the NFL. And to be honest, if anyone wanted to objectively consider last year, Trevor was getting harrased constantly last year. Similar to this year. You know why? Because we basically have the same O-Line. The metrics don't lie, my friends. The O-Line was bad last year. The O-Line is bad this year... Just to make it easy to understand, and then you can go study my references: 2022: Jaguars O-Line was trash. 2023: Jaguars O-Line is pretty much the same as 2022. I've provided the objective analysis from PFF and ESPN. Not some fan boy lover of Press Taylor, or some angsty blowhard hater of Press Taylor. This is middle of the road analysis, with no horse in the game. The O-Line last year was just as bad as the O-Line this year. Everyone outside of the fanbase agrees. Yet last year we were much more explosive than we are so far this year. Something has changed. And it wasn't the performance of the perennially bad O-Line. (10-02-2023, 05:56 PM)carp8dm Wrote: So I had some time to go back to last year... Those PFF rankings are kind of misleading since they're preseason projections, and not end of season season rankings. It'd be more useful to see where they rank the line at the end of 2022 (which they do and I'll get to in a second) and where they rank it now. Also since most of the consternation around this team is centered on the passing game, it'd be a bit more useful to know where our pass blocking is ranked. That said, their 2023 projection blurb is pertinent for a couple reasons. Quote:26. Jacksonville Jaguars (Down 7) It tells us that the line was ranked 19th overall at the end of the 2022 season (which is what the "Down 7" indicates) and also the second bullet is interesting. Ranked 9th in pass-blocking efficiency is pretty good, and I'd hazard a guess we aren't ranked nearly that high this season. Be interesting to see exactly how ESPN ranked us 31st and PFF had us 9th in their pass blocking metrics. The truth is probably somewhere more in the middle. All that said, the biggest issues that face the offense right now are our horrid RZ and 3rd down percentages. We've actually been successful on 1st and 2nd downs, but our 3rd down conversion percentage has dropped 10 percentage points, from top 10 in 2022 to bottom 5 so far this season. We've also dropped 10 percentage points in RZ TD % from 2022 to so far this season. This team will look a lot better if we can get both of those stats up to even league average instead of bottom of the barrel.
Jags are ranked 26th in the league in pass block win rate and 29th in the league at run block win rate.
Which 100% matches what we are seeing with our eyeballs every week. The line is hindering the offense's ability to get [BLEEP] done. Harrison has been bad in two games. Bartch was bad in every game he played. Fortner bad in all but one. Scherff - really up and down but average overall. Haven't had time to rewatch Shatley - but probably not great in the one game. he was bad last year at LG. Little has been the only constant good player and he just had a down week vs ATL. https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/3835...yers-teams We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today!
(10-02-2023, 07:24 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: Jags are ranked 26th in the league in pass block win rate and 29th in the league at run block win rate.Little had a down week? I thought Little looked good yesterday
Great Questions!!!
In 2022, Our Pass Blocking Win Rate was 31. https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/3453...s#pbwrteam So far in 2023, our Pass Blocking win rate is 26. https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/3835...eams#teams So we are actually rating better this year so far than last year... Again, I'm not fudging numbers or just showing some cherry picked analysis. This is ESPN. They have now horse in the game. Last year, our O-Line pass blocking was pretty crappy. This year, it's pretty crappy. I mean, what else do you need to know? The O-Line is suspect, and it's been suspect for several years. Yet last year, the offense was much more explosive. So what changed? (10-02-2023, 07:31 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:(10-02-2023, 07:24 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: Jags are ranked 26th in the league in pass block win rate and 29th in the league at run block win rate.Little had a down week? I thought Little looked good yesterday Compared to his others I mean - he gave up a couple of pressures. You're right that he looked good overall. He did. (10-02-2023, 07:32 PM)NYC4jags Wrote:(10-02-2023, 07:31 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: Little had a down week? I thought Little looked good yesterday You're discussing single issues. You're ignoring the overall analysis... Why is that? Again, I'll repeat it... Last year, our O-Line was ranked low. This year, our O-Line is also ranked low. Last year, the offense was very explosive and had success. This year our offense can move the ball, but we have no explosive plays, we fail on 3rd downs, and our Red Zone success rate is terrible. If you concede that the O-Line is similar to last year, what else is it that is causing such failure by this offense? We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today! (10-02-2023, 07:31 PM)carp8dm Wrote: Great Questions!!! Dear lort - Someone help this kid. Rankings don't exist in a vacuum. There are 31 other teams and none of them stay the same. You could be ranked 24th in week 18 last year and ranked 22nd week 4 this year and actually be worse than before because of the movement of other teams. Jesus, man, think. The line is bad. It's affecting the offense. We get it - you think it is mostly Press Taylor. Some of us think he's not really having much negative impact. Get over yourself and let others have their own opinions. No one wants to go back and forth with you for three days about it. (10-02-2023, 07:39 PM)NYC4jags Wrote:It's a soup of a whole lot of things going wrong all at once. That's how I see it. However, when your offense has 11 starters, with 5 of them responsible for setting the tone, creating lanes and buying time. They're going to, and, rightfully so, share the lion's share of anything good or bad.(10-02-2023, 07:31 PM)carp8dm Wrote: Great Questions!!! Other things that keep getting washed out in this argument is the dropped passes. The missed opportunities. The silent killers. You have to go look further for the devil in the details. Lawrence has had how many big time passes dropped so far this year per PFF? How many 4th down attempts have we converted compared to last year, were we playing from behind more last year which required more explosive, chunk plays? How are the situations different now than last years situations? List goes on and on and it's too easy to paint everything with a wide brush. It's a soup of things. The difference is the defense is playing better earlier this year and forcing turnovers and keeping games close while the offense is sputtering, while not turning it over as much or being down too much to where they need chunk plays in order to make up for lost time. What is the average starting location on the field this year Vs. last year? What was the strength of schedule last year Vs. this year. The line is clearly struggling just like last year. It's the one constant and legitimate carry over from last year. That's really all this boils down to compared to last year. Offensive line play = static Defensive effort = better Offensive effort = lesser Situational football dictates the process flow and logic that coaches try to apply and install on a weekly basis. Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk "What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king." (10-02-2023, 07:39 PM)NYC4jags Wrote:(10-02-2023, 07:31 PM)carp8dm Wrote: Great Questions!!! But come on. Let's go 3 days about it... (10-02-2023, 07:54 PM)Caldrac Wrote:(10-02-2023, 07:39 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: Dear lort -It's a soup of a whole lot of things going wrong all at once. That's how I see it. However, when your offense has 11 starters, with 5 of them responsible for setting the tone, creating lanes and buying time. They're going to, and, rightfully so, share the lion's share of anything good or bad. That's just the point I'm trying to make. I'm not trying to be a jerk store about it. But if someone is going to disagree, I'm going to explain why I think they are wrong... I wish I could let this go, but it annoys me. We looked so great last year on offense. And this year? No so much. And it's not because of our O-Line that we look different. Our O-Line is the same as last year. But the play calling is different. It just is. I just want everyone to agree with the obvious. (10-02-2023, 07:54 PM)carp8dm Wrote:You’re using stats to say the OLine is the same.(10-02-2023, 07:39 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: Dear lort - However, do you have stats and data to say the play calling is different? Do you have the percentages of a certain play call they used last year on 3rd and 6 compared to this year? % of runs called on first down compared to last year? Or…. Are you using your eyes like NYC is doing with the Oline play? We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today! (10-02-2023, 07:54 PM)carp8dm Wrote:Mehhh. This offense had it's not so great moments last year. With a few [BLEEP] turnovers happening in the redzone.(10-02-2023, 07:39 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: Dear lort - They had 6 games with 19 points or less. They had 7 games with 20 to 29 points. They had 4 games with 30 or more points. They scored on defense in a few games that boosted some of those total points. Such as the 20 to 16 victory in week 17 with the fumble. The 40 to 34 win in overtime over Dallas with the interception. Pretty up and down offense last year. Just like this year so far. In most cases they were significantly down and required chunk yardage play calls. Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk "What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king." (10-02-2023, 08:16 PM)Caldrac Wrote:(10-02-2023, 07:54 PM)carp8dm Wrote: But come on. Let's go 3 days about it...Mehhh. This offense had it's not so great moments last year. With a few [BLEEP] turnovers happening in the redzone. Yeah, I get that. Like you can't just pinpoint one thing from a year ago and then say that "hey, look how we don't do that anymore". I mean even this year, we scored 31 in week 1. We looked kinda respectable against Houston, as well. And of course we scored 20 in London. On the surface it looks nice, right? We're 2-2 after 4 weeks. Last year I think we were also 2-2!! But last year, Trevor had 8 TDs!!! This year he only has 4... Something is wrong. I'm just trying to point that out. This isn't the same team... And there's really no reason for us to be taking such a drastic statistical slide. We should have been getting better. Like, does nobody else think this is not good? Am I the only one that is realizing that this isn't the same team we watched last year??
It could be worse. We could of payed Jawan Taylor what the Chiefs did. He has looked terrible this season BTW.
(10-02-2023, 08:38 PM)carp8dm Wrote:He had 8 TDs through the first four games... with probably the same amount or more in turnovers. Played from behind in the opener and week four.(10-02-2023, 08:16 PM)Caldrac Wrote: Mehhh. This offense had it's not so great moments last year. With a few [BLEEP] turnovers happening in the redzone. Remember the monsoon Eagles game? With the fumbles and redzone picks? The interception in the opener in Washington? It's a wash. He had a big game in L.A and the defense shutout the clots at home 24 - 0 with 3 turnovers and short fields to work. We had opportunities against the Chiefs and tinhorns to get Lawrence's TD count up. I specifically remember guys dropping TDs, fumbling in the redzone or not able to toe tap in the endzone. That's really the difference that stands out to me more than the poor line play. As you said. Line play was [BLEEP] last year just like this year so far. What changed? Drops and turnovers in two games at home. Ridley left a TD or two and big yards on the field in both games. Agnew stole a redzone opportunity away with his fumble.  Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk "What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king." We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today!
Listening to Leon Searcy today talking about the growth of Anton Harrison. He says Chris Jones worked him over mainly because he hadn't learned to use his hands with the correct technique and timing yet. However, by yesterday, Searcy said he was doing well against Calais Campbell. He wasn't winning all the battles because Calais is Calais, but overall, Leon says he could see big improvement and big potential.
Carp, you keep mentioning our offense was "explosive" last year. Was it really that explosive or did we just have some explosive moments? Yes we had some really good games, but alot of the games were REALLY bad, some really bad in the first half, with us picking it up in the second half.
Had we not dropped half the passes so far this year and pulled in a couple of the TD's that we stepped out of bounce on, I think we see the same team as we seen last year. Everyone got a really big head after making the playoffs (which was an extremely lucky situation), then we somehow walked away from the Chargers game that we never should of won. That last half was absolutely amazing from the boys, but you take the crappy first half and add it to the great second half and you basically have what we seen all year. A young team that isn't very consistent at times. (10-02-2023, 07:39 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: Dear lort - HOLY FARTS PREACH MAN |
| Users browsing this thread: |
| 7 Guest(s) |
The Jungle is self-supported by showing advertisements via Google Adsense.
Please consider disabling your advertisement-blocking plugin on the Jungle to help support the site and let us grow!
We also show less advertisements to registered users, so create your account to benefit from this!
Please consider disabling your advertisement-blocking plugin on the Jungle to help support the site and let us grow!
We also show less advertisements to registered users, so create your account to benefit from this!
Questions or concerns about this ad? Take a screenshot and comment in the thread. We do value your feedback.