Mehhh. This offense had it's not so great moments last year. With a few [BLEEP] turnovers happening in the redzone.

They had 6 games with 19 points or less.

They had 7 games with 20 to 29 points.

They had 4 games with 30 or more points.

They scored on defense in a few games that boosted some of those total points.

Such as the 20 to 16 victory in week 17 with the fumble. 

The 40 to 34 win in overtime over Dallas with the interception.

Pretty up and down offense last year. Just like this year so far. In most cases they were significantly down and required chunk yardage play calls.

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Yeah, I get that.  Like you can't just pinpoint one thing from a year ago and then say that "hey, look how we don't do that anymore".

I mean even this year, we scored 31 in week 1.  We looked kinda respectable against Houston, as well.  And of course we scored 20 in London.  On the surface it looks nice, right?  We're 2-2 after 4 weeks.  Last year I think we were also 2-2!!

But last year, Trevor had 8 TDs!!!  This year he only has 4...

Something is wrong.  I'm just trying to point that out.  This isn't the same team...  And there's really no reason for us to be taking such a drastic statistical slide.  We should have been getting better.  Like, does nobody else think this is not good?

Am I the only one that is realizing that this isn't the same team we watched last year??

We don't throw to MJJ anymore
We don't run to Manhertz' side


Last year Trevor had 6 sacks, 4 fumbles, including the meteorological anomaly in Philly. This year, 8 sacks, 3 fumbles. You could argue that we're off to a WORSE start than last season. What changed? Cam was at LT last season, now Little is; Little isn't whiffing in protection, so that's not the issue. Taylor is gone, Harrison is in, and while Chris Jones feasted, he hasn't been a trainwreck, either. We exchanged MJJ for Ridley, which by everyone's estimation should open up the offense. I'd assert that Farrell is called on to be the blocking TE, but maybe Strange takes on that role as the year progresses. I don't think the presence or absence of a blocking TE is the big reason we aren't setting the stat sheets on fire.

Maybe it isn't what changed that is the point - it's what stayed the same. The blocking is bad, especially inside. It isn't getting better, and without a significant personnel change, it won't, either. Like last year, we'll put the onus on our QB's shoulders to improvise, adjust and cope with the poor cards he's dealt. Last year, he stepped up and succeeded in spite of their issues. It remains to be seen whether we can repeat the act this year. Thusfar, we're exactly where we were a season ago.

Buckle up.

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Cam back at LT. I told you he wouldn’t be playing RT or guard. Where’s all the Ray Finkles that said Little would be the LT when Cam Robinson comes back. I’m pullin receipts.

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I read all the metrics graciously supplied by the posters. Been at every home game, watched every away one. My take on the o-line for better or worse.

Last year our line was relatively stable by that I mean they had played together. (sans Center) Our tackles played reasonably well pass blocking. The guards and center were soft, but not anywhere like this. They would at least slow the rush down a bit. Although they were susceptible to twists and stunts. The run blocking was spotty. The line would get on a roll and open some holes then for some reason nada. They were consistent.

This year our right tackle is gone (4 years 80mill) our left tackle has been suspended so far. Our rookie right tackle is getting OJT and was thrown in the fire. It is one thing to insert a rookie into a stable line with competent personnel beside him. That is not what occurred. I expect by seasons end he will be ok. Our guards have under preformed and are being regularly bullied. One is coming back from knee surgery (Bartch) the other playing on a bum foot. Maybe because we practiced with the cheap shot Lions ? Their coach is aiming to be the second coming of Jeff Fischer.

So we entered the season a line with two new tackles (one a rookie) short handed and already nicked up. Yea, they are not as good this year yet. Also,they are wildly inconsistent. I think that is the most troubling. What did you expect?

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A new broom always sweeps clean.

I read all the metrics graciously supplied by the posters.  Been at every home game, watched every away one.  My take on the o-line for better or worse.

Last year our line was relatively stable by that I mean they had played together.  (sans Center) Our tackles played reasonably well pass blocking. The guards and center were soft, but not anywhere like this. They would at least slow the rush down a bit. Although they were susceptible to twists and stunts.  The run blocking was spotty. The line would get on a roll and open some holes then for some reason nada.  They were consistent.

This year our right tackle is gone (4 years 80mill) our left tackle has been suspended so far.  Our rookie right tackle is getting OJT and was thrown in the fire. It is one thing to insert a rookie into a stable line with competent personnel beside him. That is not what occurred.  I expect by seasons end he will be ok.  Our guards have under preformed and are being regularly bullied.  One is coming back from knee surgery (Bartch) the other playing on a bum foot.  Maybe because we practiced with the cheap shot Lions ?  Their coach is aiming to be the second coming of Jeff Fischer.

So we entered the season a line with two new tackles (one a rookie) short handed and already nicked up. Yea, they are not as good this year yet. Also,they are wildly inconsistent. I think that is the most troubling.  What did you expect?

Clear, concise, and accurate assessment IMO ^

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I read all the metrics graciously supplied by the posters.  Been at every home game, watched every away one.  My take on the o-line for better or worse.

Last year our line was relatively stable by that I mean they had played together.  (sans Center) Our tackles played reasonably well pass blocking. The guards and center were soft, but not anywhere like this. They would at least slow the rush down a bit. Although they were susceptible to twists and stunts.  The run blocking was spotty. The line would get on a roll and open some holes then for some reason nada.  They were consistent.

This year our right tackle is gone (4 years 80mill) our left tackle has been suspended so far.  Our rookie right tackle is getting OJT and was thrown in the fire. It is one thing to insert a rookie into a stable line with competent personnel beside him. That is not what occurred.  I expect by seasons end he will be ok.  Our guards have under preformed and are being regularly bullied.  One is coming back from knee surgery (Bartch) the other playing on a bum foot.  Maybe because we practiced with the cheap shot Lions ?  Their coach is aiming to be the second coming of Jeff Fischer.

So we entered the season a line with two new tackles (one a rookie) short handed and already nicked up. Yea, they are not as good this year yet. Also,they are wildly inconsistent. I think that is the most troubling.  What did you expect?

Clear, concise, and accurate assessment IMO ^

Agreed. And despite all of those issues? This team was probably a dropped TD or two and a redzone fumble away from being 3 - 1 at the minimum. We also had a really, REALLY bad day on Special Teams against the tinhorns. 

Which is why I won't panic too much. The offense turning the football over a lot less earlier out the gate and the defense playing much, much better out the gate has also helped alleviate some of these issues as a team. 

Just need to gel a little bit more and get into a groove. We probably will see a team that looks more competent and ready as soon as they get through Buffalo, the clots and Saints on TNF. If they can somehow come out of that series 4 - 3 I would be impressed. If they dip down to 3 - 4 they probably still have a chance to turn it around. 

Just can't be 2 - 5. That would be a bummer. Especially considering the historical advantage at home against the clots and the Saints have been hit or miss this year. If they beat Buffalo I expect them to be 5 - 2 going into the bye. LOL.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Cam back at LT. I told you he wouldn’t be playing RT or guard. Where’s all the Ray Finkles that said Little would be the LT when Cam Robinson comes back. I’m pullin receipts.

Not really unexpected, this team always plays guys out of their best position.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Cam back at LT. I told you he wouldn’t be playing RT or guard. Where’s all the Ray Finkles that said Little would be the LT when Cam Robinson comes back. I’m pullin receipts.

Not really unexpected, this team always plays guys out of their best position.

Don't be silly.... they are putting him where he belongs. Little is by far more versatile.

This is the right move.

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Not really unexpected, this team always plays guys out of their best position.

Don't be silly.... they are putting him where he belongs. Little is by far more versatile.

This is the right move.

When your left tackle is your best lineman then he plays left tackle. Cam is not better than Little, the lesser player should move.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Don't be silly.... they are putting him where he belongs. Little is by far more versatile.

This is the right move.

When your left tackle is your best lineman then he plays left tackle. Cam is not better than Little, the lesser player should move.

That is not how things work. As a coach you put players where they can be effiecetive.... Cam is not effective elsewhere besides LT.

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When your left tackle is your best lineman then he plays left tackle. Cam is not better than Little, the lesser player should move.

That is not how things work. As a coach you put players where they can be effiecetive.... Cam is not effective elsewhere besides LT.

As proven by all that tape we have of him doing it, right?

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

That is not how things work. As a coach you put players where they can be effiecetive.... Cam is not effective elsewhere besides LT.

As proven by all that tape we have of him doing it, right?

Will agree to disagree on this. But we can agree that having him back our oline tremendously improves.

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As proven by all that tape we have of him doing it, right?

Will agree to disagree on this. But we can agree that having him back our oline tremendously improves.

"Tremendously"? Nah, he's not much better than whichever guy goes to the bench. I would've cut him in the pre-season and signed Dalton Risner and Connor McGovern (<$5 million combined btw) to shore up the interior.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

That is not how things work. As a coach you put players where they can be effiecetive.... Cam is not effective elsewhere besides LT.

As proven by all that tape we have of him doing it, right?

no idea what goes on in practice.

I mean, if the plan were to slot Cam into OG when he returned (assuming Little was that much better at LT during camp), why didn't they give Cam the reps at Guard in preseason then?

Cam is (was?) fine at OT. I have no idea how much access he's been allowed during his suspension. Probably a lot easier to return to what you know than to try and learn something on the fly while also shaking off the rust.

I trust the coaches to be able to assess what's working and what isn't if Cam playing LT is putting the offense or Trevor at risk. Not gonna get my shorts ruffled over something I cannot control, or that I claim to have any inside expertise to be making different calls.

Maybe I'm just lazy.

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As proven by all that tape we have of him doing it, right?

no idea what goes on in practice.

I mean, if the plan were to slot Cam into OG when he returned (assuming Little was that much better at LT during camp), why didn't they give Cam the reps at Guard in preseason then?

Cam is (was?) fine at OT. I have no idea how much access he's been allowed during his suspension. Probably a lot easier to return to what you know than to try and learn something on the fly while also shaking off the rust.

I trust the coaches to be able to assess what's working and what isn't if Cam playing LT is putting the offense or Trevor at risk. Not gonna get my shorts ruffled over something I cannot control, or that I claim to have any inside expertise to be making different calls.

Maybe I'm just lazy.

I'm not either, I just see this as another Baalke gaffe how the entire CamRob situation played out.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Does anyone have they pressures allowed for each of our starting OL? I saw Harrison has only allowed 1 the past 2 weeks.

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IT WAS ALWAYS THE JAGS

Does anyone have they pressures allowed for each of our starting OL? I saw Harrison has only allowed 1 the past 2 weeks.

No - I wish someone tracked that stat. 

ESPN lists the top ten performers for OT and interior - but not the whole list.
(none of our guys are in any top ten lists of course) 

What we know:
Little was good in all games (save a few pressures in week 4) 
and Harrison was good in two games - bad/rookie in the two other  games. 
Scherff has been average in 2  - bad in one - and really good in the 4th
Bartch was bad in 2 - below-average in one -  then benched
Shatley was really bad in one (51 grade on PFF)
Fortner was really bad in two, average in one, and below average in week 4 
(54 grade - but pass pro notched up to a 65 - terrible run Blk #) 



So it stands to reason that those two spots, LG/Center, are likely gonna be the two giving up the most pressure. 

Pass pro win rate doesn't always directly equate to actual pressures - especially when you have a QB who gets it out quick and slips the "pocket" early at times.

Anyway - watching the all 22 is your best way to get a picture of it

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Does anyone have they pressures allowed for each of our starting OL? I saw Harrison has only allowed 1 the past 2 weeks.

No - I wish someone tracked that stat. 

ESPN lists the top ten performers for OT and interior - but not the whole list.
(none of our guys are in any top ten lists of course) 

What we know:
Little was good in all games (save a few pressures in week 4) 
and Harrison was good in two games - bad/rookie in the two other  games. 
Scherff has been average in 2  - bad in one - and really good in the 4th
Bartch was bad in 2 - below-average in one -  then benched
Shatley was really bad in one (51 grade on PFF)
Fortner was really bad in two, average in one, and below average in week 4 
(54 grade - but pass pro notched up to a 65 - terrible run Blk #) 



So it stands to reason that those two spots, LG/Center, are likely gonna be the two giving up the most pressure. 

Pass pro win rate doesn't always directly equate to actual pressures - especially when you have a QB who gets it out quick and slips the "pocket" early at times.

Anyway - watching the all 22 is your best way to get a picture of it

Thank you. I admittedly suck at evaluating OL play unless it's a very obvious whiff.

So the theory is Cam at LT, Little goes to LG. I wonder if they try Shatley at C or try to let Fortner develop more. My guess is they keep Fortner at C and just make the changes at LT/LG.

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IT WAS ALWAYS THE JAGS

Floyd vs Harrison will be a critical matchup Sunday for us. If Harrison can win that matchup it will be huge for our offense.

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No - I wish someone tracked that stat. 

ESPN lists the top ten performers for OT and interior - but not the whole list.
(none of our guys are in any top ten lists of course) 

What we know:
Little was good in all games (save a few pressures in week 4) 
and Harrison was good in two games - bad/rookie in the two other  games. 
Scherff has been average in 2  - bad in one - and really good in the 4th
Bartch was bad in 2 - below-average in one -  then benched
Shatley was really bad in one (51 grade on PFF)
Fortner was really bad in two, average in one, and below average in week 4 
(54 grade - but pass pro notched up to a 65 - terrible run Blk #) 



So it stands to reason that those two spots, LG/Center, are likely gonna be the two giving up the most pressure. 

Pass pro win rate doesn't always directly equate to actual pressures - especially when you have a QB who gets it out quick and slips the "pocket" early at times.

Anyway - watching the all 22 is your best way to get a picture of it

Thank you. I admittedly suck at evaluating OL play unless it's a very obvious whiff.

So the theory is Cam at LT, Little goes to LG. I wonder if they try Shatley at C or try to let Fortner develop more. My guess is they keep Fortner at C and just make the changes at LT/LG.

I think Shatley may be done unfortunately. Didn't show well vs ATL at guard. Hoping it's rust, but...

Fortner had an uptick in pass pro last week, so they probably want to see if that gets any better, but, I personally think every strong IDL he faces will eat his lunch, stomp his lunchbox into bits, and call his mommy bad names. 

This staff rolled the dice on what they had in place at guard and center - and it is biting them squarely in the [BLEEP] right now.

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According to Doug at the press conference today, they think Fortner is doing just fine. “No problems at all.” May be just coachspeak. But he said it with conviction. We have to face the possibility that this coach and front office suck at evaluating O line. I’d take odds that they resign Cam going forward AND don’t significantly address C/G in the offseason.


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Fix the O-Line!