And 8 games into the season, if you did a draft re-do, I bet the Falcons take Jalen Carter over Bijan 10/10 and the Lions pass on Gibbs.

No they wouldnt.  He was a top 2 talent, teams passed on him because of the person died in the car he was racing.  It had nothing to do with his talent on why he fell to 10.

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For the life of me, I don't understand why it rubs people so badly that teams just  don't gamble on first round backs very often anymore and I agree with that practice.

Most teams will still take a back in the first if they get lucky and a elite back falls to them.  Just this year 2 teams did it in the top 12 picks.  That many backs don't get drafted in the first because there aren't many elite RB respects that come thrugh.

I literally just posted this a few minutes ago and it makes this statement ^ silly.
Did you miss this? 

talent trumping positional value at the RB position is more rare in the modern NFL than it used to be and for good reason. 


2023 - 2  - 1st round RB
2022 -  ZERO - 1st round RB
2021 - 2 - 1st round RB
2020 - 1 - 1st round RB
2019 - 1 - 1st round RB

That's 6 RBs in the 1st round in 5 years. 

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2008 - 5 - 1st round RB
2007 - 1 - 1st round RB
2006 - 4 - 1st round RB
2005 - 3 - 1st round RB
2004 - 3 - 1st round RB

That's SIXTEEN RBs selected in the first round over 5 years. 

GMs are wise to no longer risk so many early picks on running backs. And this ^  should make the trend very obvious for you.  It has to be a special talent to lead you to exception and about half of those exceptions fail.

This tectonic shift in drafting strategy did not happen by accident. The game has changed, the rules have changed, the RB position is devalued. The GMs have adjusted. 

I mean - really?? You're gonna act like this is some sort of fluke because the most easily adaptable position between NCAA and NFL has (in your speculation) suddenly stopped producing good prospects?? 

No 

It's not that colleges aren't producing good backs - they just aren't being taken early much anymore
i.e.

Tony Pollard 128th overall

James Connor 105th overall
Brian Robinson 98th 
Davon Achsen - 84th
Raheem Mostert  UDFA
Pacheco - 251st overall
Karen Williams - 164th overall

There's 20 more like this ^ from the past ten years. 

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Imagine still arguing over a great player we selected that's recently set a few records that had stood still for years in our franchise's history. Holy [BLEEP].

but, but,but...thats what we do..!!!   lol

I would get it if it made sense. It's not like Etienne is not panning out and that we missed out on some awesome LT/RT or WR at the bottom of that draft on the opening night. 

Only other offensive player worth a lick that I can recall of off the top of my head is Detroit's St. Brown and he went into the 4th RD if I am not mistaken. 

Taking a RB that gets plenty of touches and is scoring TD's is not something to gripe over nor revisit.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

And 8 games into the season, if you did a draft re-do, I bet the Falcons take Jalen Carter over Bijan 10/10 and the Lions pass on Gibbs.

I still doubt that. Atlanta is a run heavy, run first team that covets powerful and dynamic runners. They only way they do a redo is if they can trade up for CJ Stroud. As that's the only other value pick they would need as a team to help them out based on Ridder's overall play this year.

Lions are winning football games. I don't think they do anything different. Even in a redo. They took two, safe, well rounded players in Gibbs and that LB out of Iowa. They also landed Branch who had a 1st RD grade on him.

Agreed, Gibbs is averaging 5 ypc.  I don't think the Lions would do anything different.  The draft pick they wish they could re-do is the Jameson Williams pick

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And 8 games into the season, if you did a draft re-do, I bet the Falcons take Jalen Carter over Bijan 10/10 and the Lions pass on Gibbs.

Jameson Williams is the pick they wish they could do a redraft on

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ETN making up for that lost year.

We sure he was injured that first year? Maybe he didn't like Urbz. Really though he is proving to be an exceptionally good choice. I wasn't on board buy yeah it has worked out. Good to be wrong.

LOL good one.

Some folks'll go to any measure to avoid that sentient colostomy bag.

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but, but,but...thats what we do..!!!   lol

I would get it if it made sense. It's not like Etienne is not panning out and that we missed out on some awesome LT/RT or WR at the bottom of that draft on the opening night. 

Only other offensive player worth a lick that I can recall of off the top of my head is Detroit's St. Brown and he went into the 4th RD if I am not mistaken. 

Taking a RB that gets plenty of touches and is scoring TD's is not something to gripe over nor revisit.

FWIW 
I'm debating draft strategy, the position value, and the radical change in the position's value. 
Not the actual player.

I love that we got that pick right despite me hating it philosophically. 
I would have gotten us a solid lineman when we could have had a special back. I know that and freely admit it.

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And 8 games into the season, if you did a draft re-do, I bet the Falcons take Jalen Carter over Bijan 10/10 and the Lions pass on Gibbs.

I still doubt that. Atlanta is a run heavy, run first team that covets powerful and dynamic runners. They only way they do a redo is if they can trade up for CJ Stroud. As that's the only other value pick they would need as a team to help them out based on Ridder's overall play this year.

Lions are winning football games. I don't think they do anything different. Even in a redo. They took two, safe, well rounded players in Gibbs and that LB out of Iowa. They also landed Branch who had a 1st RD grade on him.

Do you know who was 3rd in the NFL in rushing last year and averaged 4.9 yards a carry? The Falcons.

Do you know who currently is tied for 31st in the league for sacks? The Falcons.

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One of Baalke's best picks

ETN has won at least 2 games for us this year alone.  

You can tell what a liability RB is when you remove him and let Tank get reps...

ETN is worth is weight in gold.  I know many think there were better value options at his pick in the first round.  But, man.  when you see how ETN is carrying this offense?  

ETN is gold.  The dude is Atlas, carrying the O-Line and the the offense on his shoulders.  If he has a career similar to Mixon, he deserves a second contract.  And honestly, I think he's better than Mixon.

Comparing him to Najee, too, and the difference was remarkable.

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Urbz, not Baalke. And Urbz wanted Kedarius instead, taking ETN only because he needed a gadget guy and change of pace back..We're damn lucky it's turned out so well.

We know Urbz wanted KT but you have zero clue who Ballke wanted.   This was a Urbz and a Baalke pick.  RB with elite athletism when all we had at the time was JRob is absolutely a Baalke pick as well.  I'm sure Etienne was higher on Baalkes board than KT.  We have lucked out we didn't take the guy you wanted every year lol.  That's what we have lucked out on becuase we would still be at the bottom of the basement

We all know we took him just so Trevor wouldn't pull an Eli on us and demand a trade.

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I loved this pick on draft day. I was excited for him to be paired with James Robinson. And a smart approach to have familiarity with the QB you drafted as well. I expected explosive plays. I didn't expect him to already be RB1 as soon as he did. It worked out.

The guys who took him didn't expect him to be an RB1 either, he was here to spell Carlos Hyde on 3rd down and run end arounds, lol.

read that as "run errands" and this rookie hazing is getting out of hand, man.

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I still doubt that. Atlanta is a run heavy, run first team that covets powerful and dynamic runners. They only way they do a redo is if they can trade up for CJ Stroud. As that's the only other value pick they would need as a team to help them out based on Ridder's overall play this year.

Lions are winning football games. I don't think they do anything different. Even in a redo. They took two, safe, well rounded players in Gibbs and that LB out of Iowa. They also landed Branch who had a 1st RD grade on him.

Do you know who was 3rd in the NFL in rushing last year and averaged 4.9 yards a carry? The Falcons.

Do you know who currently is tied for 31st in the league for sacks? The Falcons.

And? They're still 4 - 4. In a bad NFC South division. Carter's situation also scared a lot of teams off. Robinson was and still is arguably the safest pick of that draft. When you're a team that's been struggling for years to get it right? It's better safe than sorry in those situations. 

You know what's setting the Falcons back more than anything? Poor QB play. That's really a bad comparison. Outside of Josh Allen here on our defense? Who else is really getting sacks on the stat sheet? We're in the 20's if I am not mistaken.

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I would get it if it made sense. It's not like Etienne is not panning out and that we missed out on some awesome LT/RT or WR at the bottom of that draft on the opening night. 

Only other offensive player worth a lick that I can recall of off the top of my head is Detroit's St. Brown and he went into the 4th RD if I am not mistaken. 

Taking a RB that gets plenty of touches and is scoring TD's is not something to gripe over nor revisit.

FWIW 
I'm debating draft strategy, the position value, and the radical change in the position's value. 
Not the actual player.

I love that we got that pick right despite me hating it philosophically. 
I would have gotten us a solid lineman when we could have had a special back. I know that and freely admit it.

The only lineman I thought we could have grabbed that night and I wanted (was dead wrong about it as well, I can also freely admit it) was Tevin Jenkins. Who ended up with the Bears and has done nothing due to injuries. He fell into the 2nd RD. We ultimately landed a lineman in Walker Little that year anyway the very next night.

---

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Do you know who was 3rd in the NFL in rushing last year and averaged 4.9 yards a carry? The Falcons.

Do you know who currently is tied for 31st in the league for sacks? The Falcons.

And? They're still 4 - 4. In a bad NFC South division. Carter's situation also scared a lot of teams off. Robinson was and still is arguably the safest pick of that draft. When you're a team that's been struggling for years to get it right? It's better safe than sorry in those situations. 

You know what's setting the Falcons back more than anything? Poor QB play. That's really a bad comparison. Outside of Josh Allen here on our defense? Who else is really getting sacks on the stat sheet? We're in the 20's if I am not mistaken.

---

FWIW 
I'm debating draft strategy, the position value, and the radical change in the position's value. 
Not the actual player.

I love that we got that pick right despite me hating it philosophically. 
I would have gotten us a solid lineman when we could have had a special back. I know that and freely admit it.

The only lineman I thought we could have grabbed that night and I wanted (was dead wrong about it as well, I can also freely admit it) was Tevin Jenkins. Who ended up with the Bears and has done nothing due to injuries. He fell into the 2nd RD. We ultimately landed a lineman in Walker Little that year anyway the very next night.

Exactly. And if your team is further away because of your QB, you are essentially wasting the prime years of the RB you selected in the top 10. Their shelf life is so short that by the time the Falcons are ready to compete, Bijan will be looking for a 2nd contract that he likely won't live up to.

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And? They're still 4 - 4. In a bad NFC South division. Carter's situation also scared a lot of teams off. Robinson was and still is arguably the safest pick of that draft. When you're a team that's been struggling for years to get it right? It's better safe than sorry in those situations. 

You know what's setting the Falcons back more than anything? Poor QB play. That's really a bad comparison. Outside of Josh Allen here on our defense? Who else is really getting sacks on the stat sheet? We're in the 20's if I am not mistaken.

---

The only lineman I thought we could have grabbed that night and I wanted (was dead wrong about it as well, I can also freely admit it) was Tevin Jenkins. Who ended up with the Bears and has done nothing due to injuries. He fell into the 2nd RD. We ultimately landed a lineman in Walker Little that year anyway the very next night.

Exactly. And if you're team is further away because of your QB, you are essentially wasting the prime years of the RB you selected in the top 10. Their shelf life is so short that by the time the Falcons are ready to compete, Bijan will be looking for a 2nd contract that he likely won't live up to.

Wrong. How many times do we hear the phrase "A QB's best friend is his running game"?. I bet the Falcons would be lucky to have 2 wins without Robinson. 

If they had sat Ridder down sooner for Heinicke? They probably have 5 wins at the moment or more. There's still 9 games left and the Falcons could very easily run away at some point or win that division with 8 or 9 wins. 

It's that bad.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

RB value and BAP...... Same thread

Give us a break, we haven't had consecutive winning seasons in so long we're conditioned to begin the offseason talk by November each year.

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As I've said throughout the thread, KC could do what they want because they were coming off a Super Bowl victory. Good teams can take RBs high if they want because they aren't leaving gaping holes in their roster to do so, they can take late RBs if they want because, for them, late RBs perform not much different than Day 1 RBs. For teams like the Jaguars who (at the time) have holes everywhere, bypassing a foundational player for a final piece player is a bad use of draft capital. BTW, they didn't win the SB again with CEH, they had to draft a 7th rounder to get that trophy. Everything I'm telling you is backed up by the stats and the eye test, you just don't want to see it because you're wrong.

It's like leading a horse to water only for the horse to piss in the water, then see its reflection, get spooked, and run off of a cliff.

BRB, searching youtube because you know this has happened.

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Exactly. And if you're team is further away because of your QB, you are essentially wasting the prime years of the RB you selected in the top 10. Their shelf life is so short that by the time the Falcons are ready to compete, Bijan will be looking for a 2nd contract that he likely won't live up to.

Wrong. How many times do we hear the phrase "A QB's best friend is his running game"?. I bet the Falcons would be lucky to have 2 wins without Robinson. 

If they had sat Ridder down sooner for Heinicke? They probably have 5 wins at the moment or more. There's still 9 games left and the Falcons could very easily run away at some point or win that division with 8 or 9 wins. 

It's that bad.

Well they beat the Bucs without him. They beat the Panthers with Allgeier running for 75 yards and 2 TDS. They beat the Texans when he rushed for 46 yards.....

I understand how bad Ridder is but that's precisely my point. Bijan isn't moving the needle on this team and likely won't be a factor to their wins and losses until the QB is fixed. And who knows how long that will take.

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It's like leading a horse to water only for the horse to piss in the water, then see its reflection, get spooked, and run off of a cliff.

You and flsprtsgrl is that horse.  It's about the player not the position

Nothing says "convincing argument" like calling the opposing stance a lady.

grape jerb.

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Do you know who was 3rd in the NFL in rushing last year and averaged 4.9 yards a carry? The Falcons.

Do you know who currently is tied for 31st in the league for sacks? The Falcons.

And? They're still 4 - 4. In a bad NFC South division. Carter's situation also scared a lot of teams off. Robinson was and still is arguably the safest pick of that draft. When you're a team that's been struggling for years to get it right? It's better safe than sorry in those situations. 

You know what's setting the Falcons back more than anything? Poor QB play. That's really a bad comparison. Outside of Josh Allen here on our defense? Who else is really getting sacks on the stat sheet? We're in the 20's if I am not mistaken.

---

FWIW 
I'm debating draft strategy, the position value, and the radical change in the position's value. 
Not the actual player.

I love that we got that pick right despite me hating it philosophically. 
I would have gotten us a solid lineman when we could have had a special back. I know that and freely admit it.

The only lineman I thought we could have grabbed that night and I wanted (was dead wrong about it as well, I can also freely admit it) was Tevin Jenkins. Who ended up with the Bears and has done nothing due to injuries. He fell into the 2nd RD. We ultimately landed a lineman in Walker Little that year anyway the very next night.

Again - was focusing on strategy not players. 

 I've already stated Jenkins and Barmore were the guys I had on my radar. Jenkins only has 7 complete games due to injury - plays well when he plays, but... yeah would have been an unfortunate pick. 
Barmore would have been a better outcome than Jenkins and we had great need for his skillset at the time. 

Regardless - the F.O. took a risk and won. I'm glad it wasn't me making that particular decision.

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Again, of ETN was picked with say the 34th overall pick I don’t think we even have this debate.

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U gotta wonder how long he keeps it up

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You and flsprtsgrl is that horse.  It's about the player not the position

Nothing says "convincing argument" like calling the opposing stance a lady.

grape jerb.

With the ever present grammatical error as well.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Nothing says "convincing argument" like calling the opposing stance a lady.

grape jerb.

With the ever present grammatical error as well.

Are*

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So we are to the point in this discussion with 2 sides. One yelling "TASTES GREAT" and the other yelling "LESS FILLING?

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A new broom always sweeps clean.