Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl.  Brad Johnson won a Super Bowl.  Eli Manning, who is only maybe a top 15 QB, has won two of them.  Everyone thought Joe Flacco was a stiff until he won one.  And now after last season, everyone thinks he is a stiff again.  I'd much rather have a "mediocre" QB who gets you into the playoffs every year, or into the playoff chase every year, then constantly recycling lousy QBs over and over again in the hopes that one day you'll get lucky. 

 

Look at the top 15 QBs in the league last year in terms of QB rating and tell me how many of them are playing for the team that drafted them in the top 10 of the first round?  The list is short.  There are many ways to find a QB.  There are many ways to find a QB good enough to make you a consistent playoff contender.   

 

Sure there are lots of ways, but you still have to do it.

 

Also it's been more than a decade since Brad Johnson won that Superbowl. I think we can fairly label it a dramatically unusual outlier in an NFL which is continually tilting the field in favor of elite QBs.

 

Also let's not put Dalton on Flacco's level. You can say that Flacco won because he had a great team around him, but he still won. He has never been a 1 and done QB in the playoffs in his career, and that's all Dalton has ever done. It's not like the Bengals don't have a very very strong roster of players around him.

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Sure there are lots of ways, but you still have to do it.

 

Also it's been more than a decade since Brad Johnson won that Superbowl. I think we can fairly label it a dramatically unusual outlier in an NFL which is continually tilting the field in favor of elite QBs.

 

Also let's not put Dalton on Flacco's level. You can say that Flacco won because he had a great team around him, but he still won. He has never been a 1 and done QB in the playoffs in his career, and that's all Dalton has ever done. It's not like the Bengals don't have a very very strong roster of players around him.

 

The Brad Johnson specific example may be an outlier sure, but what about the Eli Manning two Super Bowls in 2008 and 2012? Or Flacco last season and Wilson this past season? Those teams won with the Quarterbacks that they had and a strong overall roster. If you keep swinging for a Franchise guy and missing, you are depriving yourself of a chance to build a strong roster. By the way, did you notice that Eli's team beat the elite Tom Brady and Wilson beat the elite Peyton Manning?

 

It ain't just the Quarterback. He's a big part and might be the biggest part but he has to have a strong roster around him to win it all.

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I'm trying to make myself more informed and less opinionated.

Stop saying whatever stupid thing you're talking about and pay attention to all the interesting things I have to say!

Problem is, there's no Cam Newton in this draft.  The next best QBs were Dalton and Kaepernick.  Meaning, that's what we're facing at the "top" of this draft class.  QBs that would probably be second round talent if there were any true franchise candidates in the draft class.

 

The only reason they're in conversation for the first round, is high demand (there are many teams looking at QB, all of which made offseason moves as a precaution BTW...) and no high caliber, bonafide franchise guys at the top.

 

The crop really does resemble 2011 minus Newton, and you could also argue it's also a lot like 2013 but with greater numbers.

 

I disagree with the bolded.  Bridgewater is definitely a first round prospect, and he would be even if there were a "Cam Newton" in this draft (which you're arguing with the hindsight bias.  If you're remembering correctly, there was discussion leading up to the draft as to whether we [Jag fans] would consider it worth the risk to draft him at our pick in the teens.  This was before Newton rocketed up draft boards the last couple months before the draft).

 

Manziel and Bortles would probably be fringe 1st/early second rounders, but would expect them in the teens due to QB need.  They're first round prospects.  Are they top 5? Maybe Bridgewater is, but the others aren't.  I think Teddy is worth a pick in the top 15 at least.

 

As to the question in the OP, I'd rather grab a guy we feel strongly about at QB.  If there's a question of whether he's what's best for the team, I'd probably pass if I were the GM.

 

If Caldwell thinks Teddy/Blake/Johnny are "IT," they should be taken at 3, no questions asked.  But if not, take Clowney/Mack/Watkins and start evaluating for next year.

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Sure there are lots of ways, but you still have to do it.

 

Also it's been more than a decade since Brad Johnson won that Superbowl. I think we can fairly label it a dramatically unusual outlier in an NFL which is continually tilting the field in favor of elite QBs.

 

Also let's not put Dalton on Flacco's level. You can say that Flacco won because he had a great team around him, but he still won. He has never been a 1 and done QB in the playoffs in his career, and that's all Dalton has ever done. It's not like the Bengals don't have a very very strong roster of players around him.

How many rings does Marino have?

 

It's not all about the QB alone.  Marino had his share of weapons during his career as well and could never bring home the hardware.

 

I simply don't understand how some choose to write off Dalton so quickly.  Andrew Luck is only 1-2 in the playoffs (only one more win than Dalton.)  In contrast, Mark Sanchez is 4-2 in the playoffs.  So, I wouldn't glean too much from that.  Dalton's suffering from your typical QB bias, IMO (getting too much blame for a loss, just as some get too much credit for winning.)

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"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."

How many rings does Marino have?

 

It's not all about the QB alone.  Marino had his share of weapons during his career as well and could never bring home the hardware.

 

I simply don't understand how some choose to write off Dalton so quickly.  Andrew Luck is only 1-2 in the playoffs (only one more win than Dalton.)  In contrast, Mark Sanchez is 4-2 in the playoffs.  So, I wouldn't glean too much from that.  Dalton's suffering from your typical QB bias, IMO (getting too much blame for a loss, just as some get too much credit for winning.)

 

Marino played in a totally different era and had to contend with a better team with another elite QB in his division for most of his career. (Buffalo)

 

Also Marino went to a Superbowl in his second year. Are you really trying to compare Dalton's failings with Marino's?

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How many rings does Marino have?

 

It's not all about the QB alone.  Marino had his share of weapons during his career as well and could never bring home the hardware.

 

I simply don't understand how some choose to write off Dalton so quickly.  Andrew Luck is only 1-2 in the playoffs (only one more win than Dalton.)  In contrast, Mark Sanchez is 4-2 in the playoffs.  So, I wouldn't glean too much from that.  Dalton's suffering from your typical QB bias, IMO (getting too much blame for a loss, just as some get too much credit for winning.)

 

I'm with you here; Dalton catches way too much flak.  His numbers last year were fantastic.  I mean, Peyton Manning choked in the playoffs, save for the 3 years he made the SB, and nobody is discussing him as QB purgatory.

 

Yes, he has AJ Green, but Manning had Harrison and Luck still has Wayne and an emerging Hilton. 

 

BOLD PREDICTION: Dalton will make a SB before Luck.

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Marino played in a totally different era and had to contend with a better team with another elite QB in his division for most of his career. (Buffalo)

 

Also Marino went to a Superbowl in his second year. Are you really trying to compare Dalton's failings with Marino's?

 

HUGE Marino fan here--but he never got BACK to the SB.  He's in conversation as one of the best of all time (and probably would be THE best if he had a ring or two), and he STILL couldn't get there.  Dalton's career ain't over yet.

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The Brad Johnson specific example may be an outlier sure, but what about the Eli Manning two Super Bowls in 2008 and 2012? Or Flacco last season and Wilson this past season? Those teams won with the Quarterbacks that they had and a strong overall roster. If you keep swinging for a Franchise guy and missing, you are depriving yourself of a chance to build a strong roster. By the way, did you notice that Eli's team beat the elite Tom Brady and Wilson beat the elite Peyton Manning?

 

It ain't just the Quarterback. He's a big part and might be the biggest part but he has to have a strong roster around him to win it all.

 

Eli Manning is an example of a guy taking some time to develop, and maybe that will be Dalton's thing, but I doubt it.

 

The way I see it guys either rise with the competition or shrink against it, and it's not something that changes.

 

Eli Manning rises, Andy Dalton shrinks.

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Problem is, there's no Cam Newton in this draft. The next best QBs were Dalton and Kaepernick. Meaning, that's what we're facing at the "top" of this draft class. QBs that would probably be second round talent if there were any true franchise candidates in the draft class.


The only reason they're in conversation for the first round, is high demand (there are many teams looking at QB, all of which made offseason moves as a precaution BTW...) and no high caliber, bonafide franchise guys at the top.


The crop really does resemble 2011 minus Newton, and you could also argue it's also a lot like 2013 but with greater numbers.

I respect your opinion, but I actually think that, while they are very different prospects, Newton and Bridgewater are at a similar level as prospects. Thinking back to 2011, there were probably actually more question marks surrounding Newton than there are Bridgewater at this time. Newton was in no way considered a slam dunk, sure fire, Andrew Luck/Peyton Manning-like elite prospect. There were questions about his work ethic, his off the field issues, whether or not he could grasp and run a pro style offense, ect. Around this time there were also the anonymous "NFL excec says he wouldn't touch Newton in the first round" "reports".


Even now, as much as I like Newton, he certainly isn't An all-time great QB and as much as I like Bridgewater, I don't think he will be either. I agree that, for instance Mack will be a better LB than Bridgewater will be a QB. With the exception of Marcel Dareus, every other player taken in the top 5 in 2011 are better at their position than Cam Newton is a QB. The question is are you better off with the 2nd best WR in the league or the 12th best QB? It's debatable IMO.

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I'm with you here; Dalton catches way too much flak.  His numbers last year were fantastic.  I mean, Peyton Manning choked in the playoffs, save for the 3 years he made the SB, and nobody is discussing him as QB purgatory.

 

Yes, he has AJ Green, but Manning had Harrison and Luck still has Wayne and an emerging Hilton. 

 

BOLD PREDICTION: Dalton will make a SB before Luck.

 

Considering Luck's game against the chiefs in the wildcard round you obviously haven't been paying attention.

 

Dalton is unlikely to ever go to a Superbowl. Luck looks like he'll be in one at some point in the next several seasons.

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Eli Manning is an example of a guy taking some time to develop, and maybe that will be Dalton's thing, but I doubt it.

 

The way I see it guys either rise with the competition or shrink against it, and it's not something that changes.

 

Eli Manning rises, Andy Dalton shrinks.

 

But Eli didn't make all of the necessary plays to win those titles. He made big plays, yes but not all of them. His Defensive Line putting stifling pressure on Brady in the first one was huge as was Bradshaw and Jacobs racking up 100 yards rushing between them in the latest.

 

I'm not trying to say that I don't want an elite Quarterback, but I would much rather have an elite overall roster.

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I'm trying to make myself more informed and less opinionated.

Stop saying whatever stupid thing you're talking about and pay attention to all the interesting things I have to say!

But Eli didn't make all of the necessary plays to win those titles. He made big plays, yes but not all of them. His Defensive Line putting stifling pressure on Brady in the first one was huge as was Bradshaw and Jacobs racking up 100 yards rushing between them in the latest.

 

I'm not trying to say that I don't want an elite Quarterback, but I would much rather have an elite overall roster.

 

Every player at every position is important, but you can find good players at every position in lots of places except for QB. It's very rare for elite QBs to be available in free agency unless they have some career threatening injury like Peyton and Brees had.

 

If Caldwell is worth his salt he'll build up the roster, but it'll be finding a QB that really measures him. If he doesn't he'll be gone in a few seasons when it's clear the team isn't going toget over the Andrew Luck hump under his guidance.

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Every player at every position is important, but you can find good players at every position in lots of places except for QB. It's very rare for elite QBs to be available in free agency unless they have some career threatening injury like Peyton and Brees had.

 

If Caldwell is worth his salt he'll build up the roster, but it'll be finding a QB that really measures him. If he doesn't he'll be gone in a few seasons when it's clear the team isn't going toget over the Andrew Luck hump under his guidance.

 

If Caldwell does build up a strong roster, will he be on the cutting block if he doesn't find a QB though? Do you think the GM for Cincinnati is in danger of losing his job? He's put together a nice little roster there and Dalton can at least hold the fort until someone better comes along. I think the same can be said for Caldwell. If he were to develop a Cincinnati-esque roster and got Henne-esque play from the Quarterbacks spot, I don't think he'd be in danger of losing his job.

 

Now, if the situation carried on for season after season then a change might be in order but I wouldn't have a problem with a team being a perennial playoff contender based on overall roster strength.

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I'm trying to make myself more informed and less opinionated.

Stop saying whatever stupid thing you're talking about and pay attention to all the interesting things I have to say!

If Caldwell does build up a strong roster, will he be on the cutting block if he doesn't find a QB though? Do you think the GM for Cincinnati is in danger of losing his job? He's put together a nice little roster there and Dalton can at least hold the fort until someone better comes along. I think the same can be said for Caldwell. If he were to develop a Cincinnati-esque roster and got Henne-esque play from the Quarterbacks spot, I don't think he'd be in danger of losing his job.

 

Now, if the situation carried on for season after season then a change might be in order but I wouldn't have a problem with a team being a perennial playoff contender based on overall roster strength.

Well since the GM of the Bengals is the owner, I don't think he is in jeopardy of losing his job.  I know what you are getting at though. 

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The Brad Johnson specific example may be an outlier sure, but what about the Eli Manning two Super Bowls in 2008 and 2012? Or Flacco last season and Wilson this past season? 

My response would be the Eli and Flacco are not QB purgatory. They are inconsistent as it gets, but they have that extra gear that can carry a team if they get hot at the right time. I think Cutler, Romo, and Stafford are the same way. I don't call them QB purgatory either because they have the traits that surpass that when they are playing well. 

 

Dalton/Schaub/Garrard/Sanchez/etc...those guys on their best day still need to be largely carried by their team to get it done against other similarly talented teams. 

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Marino played in a totally different era and had to contend with a better team with another elite QB in his division for most of his career. (Buffalo)

 

Also Marino went to a Superbowl in his second year. Are you really trying to compare Dalton's failings with Marino's?

If that's all you can understand, then just wow... you're not even in the conversation.

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"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."

If Caldwell does build up a strong roster, will he be on the cutting block if he doesn't find a QB though? Do you think the GM for Cincinnati is in danger of losing his job? He's put together a nice little roster there and Dalton can at least hold the fort until someone better comes along. I think the same can be said for Caldwell. If he were to develop a Cincinnati-esque roster and got Henne-esque play from the Quarterbacks spot, I don't think he'd be in danger of losing his job.

 

Now, if the situation carried on for season after season then a change might be in order but I wouldn't have a problem with a team being a perennial playoff contender based on overall roster strength.

This is a good question and one that I don't think we have enough info about Khan to know. 

 

I will say that I am quite scared by the comments coming from all 3 of Dave/Gus/Shad. It certainly seems like they are willing to settle for a mid round QB purgatory ceiling. I am praying that it's a smokescreen...because while I think that Dave can build a contending roster soon we are going to wind up just like the Texans/Bengals...missing our SB window because we're trying to get there with a Garoppolo/Fales/Murray/McCarron blah type QB. 

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This is a good question and one that I don't think we have enough info about Khan to know. 

 

I will say that I am quite scared by the comments coming from all 3 of Dave/Gus/Shad. It certainly seems like they are willing to settle for a mid round QB purgatory ceiling. I am praying that it's a smokescreen...because while I think that Dave can build a contending roster soon we are going to wind up just like the Texans/Bengals...missing our SB window because we're trying to get there with a Garoppolo/Fales/Murray/McCarron blah type QB. 

 

Can we be done with this "purgatory" bellywash?

 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/0ap200000...2011-class

 

<p style="margin-left:40px;">"Just average," is how one NFC personnel exec described this QB class. "The kid from Central Florida (Blake Bortles) has a chance to be really good. (Johnny) Manziel scares me -- he's 50-50. (Teddy) Bridgewater reminds me a little of Byron Leftwich, in that he's a little soft. (Derek) Carr's just good. You take one of them in the third round, you're happy with that. The problem is, if you really want one of these guys, you almost have to take them in the first."

<p style="margin-left:40px;"> 

<p style="margin-left:40px;">Several high-level evaluators said four players appear to stand out in this year's class: South Carolina defensive end Jadeveon Clowney, Buffalo outside linebacker Khalil Mack, Auburn offensive tackle Greg Robinson and Clemson receiver Sammy Watkins.

<p style="margin-left:40px;">The NFC personnel exec opined that Bortles, if given a pure grade based on his potential, would probably fall in a cluster of eight or so players behind those top four. The rest, he said, might not be any better than second-round talents.

 

At some point, can't we simply accept we aren't likely to land a franchise QB no matter how high we select one?  And that selecting one at #3 is probably not a risk worth taking when there's much better talent available at other positions of just as great if not greater need?  Instead, all indicators seem to suggest taking one in the second round or later is likely to bring you a similar caliber QB, but at the right price.

 

I don't understand why it must be repeated time and again:

 

It's certainly not franchise QB or bust in 2014 for the Jaguars.  It is not now or never.  We will find one even if it isn't this year.

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"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."

This is a good question and one that I don't think we have enough info about Khan to know. 

 

I will say that I am quite scared by the comments coming from all 3 of Dave/Gus/Shad. It certainly seems like they are willing to settle for a mid round QB purgatory ceiling. I am praying that it's a smokescreen...because while I think that Dave can build a contending roster soon we are going to wind up just like the Texans/Bengals...missing our SB window because we're trying to get there with a Garoppolo/Fales/Murray/McCarron blah type QB. 

 

But would it really suck to "wind up like the Texans/Bengals" though?

 

Everyone was saying how Houston was the choice job out there this offseason due to the roster strength that they already possessed, all that was needed was a Quarterback to come in and push them over the top. Again, Cincinnati has a really nice roster and with some key upgrades they can really make a push. 2014 isn't the only year that the team is allowed to draft a Quarterback. If there is a non-Quarterback who will provide a greater impact, I'm all for taking him until a Quarterback fits the talent level of the remaining talent pool.

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I'm trying to make myself more informed and less opinionated.

Stop saying whatever stupid thing you're talking about and pay attention to all the interesting things I have to say!

If that's all you can understand, then just wow... you're not even in the conversation.

Well we can't all be as brilliant as you, pirkster.

 

I'm sure everyone over at the noble prize winners' private message board is missing you, maybe you ought to get back to your people.

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