If Caldwell does build up a strong roster, will he be on the cutting block if he doesn't find a QB though? Do you think the GM for Cincinnati is in danger of losing his job? He's put together a nice little roster there and Dalton can at least hold the fort until someone better comes along. I think the same can be said for Caldwell. If he were to develop a Cincinnati-esque roster and got Henne-esque play from the Quarterbacks spot, I don't think he'd be in danger of losing his job.

 

Now, if the situation carried on for season after season then a change might be in order but I wouldn't have a problem with a team being a perennial playoff contender based on overall roster strength.

 

Of course I mean season after season. Guys build winners then get fired on a regular basis. Look at AJ Smith with the Chargers. He built a great roster up and had lots of winning seasons and plenty of players sent to the pro bowl, and he got sacked eventually because his team didn't make it over the hump.

 

What will really be damning is if Caldwell does what Shack Harris did and passes on a guy that turns out to be a super bowl winning talent at QB. As long as he doesn't pass on a guy that goes on to be successful he'll likely get a lot of years of benefit of doubt. If he does pass on a guy that blows up that's when Khan will likely start feeling impatient.

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But would it really suck to "wind up like the Texans/Bengals" though?

 

Everyone was saying how Houston was the choice job out there this offseason due to the roster strength that they already possessed, all that was needed was a Quarterback to come in and push them over the top. Again, Cincinnati has a really nice roster and with some key upgrades they can really make a push. 2014 isn't the only year that the team is allowed to draft a Quarterback. If there is a non-Quarterback who will provide a greater impact, I'm all for taking him until a Quarterback fits the talent level of the remaining talent pool.

 

Of course it wouldn't.  I'll take the team that gets to the playoffs every year.  Especially considering the Jag's attendance issues.  You win people come, you suck people don't come.  Easy as that.  I go to the games to watch the team win.  I sure as hell don't go there to watch Gabbert stink it up and hope for a better draft selection. 

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Can we be done with this "purgatory" bellywash?

<a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/0ap2000000336297/article/2014-nfl-draft-quarterback-conundrum-harks-back-to-2011-class'>http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/0ap2000000336297/article/2014-nfl-draft-quarterback-conundrum-harks-back-to-2011-class</a>

 

<p class="bbc_indent" style="margin-left:40px;">"Just average," is how one NFC personnel exec described this QB class. "The kid from Central Florida (<a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/profiles/blake-bortles?id=2543477'>Blake Bortles</a>) has a chance to be really good. (<a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/profiles/johnny-manziel?id=2543462'>Johnny</a>) <a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/profiles/johnny-manziel?id=2543462'>Manziel</a> scares me -- he's 50-50. (<a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/profiles/teddy-bridgewater?id=2543465'>Teddy</a>) <a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/profiles/teddy-bridgewater?id=2543465'>Bridgewater</a> reminds me a little of Byron Leftwich, in that he's a little soft. (<a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/profiles/derek-carr?id=2543499'>Derek</a>) <a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/profiles/derek-carr?id=2543499'>Carr</a>'s just good. You take one of them in the third round, you're happy with that. The problem is, if you really want one of these guys, you almost have to take them in the first."


<p class="bbc_indent" style="margin-left:40px;">Several high-level evaluators said four players appear to stand out in this year's class: South Carolina defensive end <a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/profiles/jadeveon-clowney?id=2543456'>Jadeveon Clowney</a>, Buffalo outside linebacker <a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/profiles/khalil-mack?id=2543463'>Khalil Mack</a>, Auburn offensive tackle <a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/profiles/greg-robinson?id=2543458'>Greg Robinson</a> and Clemson receiver <a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/profiles/sammy-watkins?id=2543457'>Sammy Watkins</a>.

<p class="bbc_indent" style="margin-left:40px;">The NFC personnel exec opined that Bortles, if given a pure grade based on his potential, would probably fall in a cluster of eight or so players behind those top four. The rest, he said, might not be any better than second-round talents.



At some point, can't we simply accept we aren't likely to land a franchise QB no matter how high we select one? And that selecting one at #3 is probably not a risk worth taking when there's much better talent available at other positions of just as great if not greater need? Instead, all indicators seem to suggest taking one in the second round or later is likely to bring you a similar caliber QB, but at the right price.


I don't understand why it must be repeated time and again:


It's certainly not franchise QB or bust in 2014 for the Jaguars. It is not now or never. We will find one even if it isn't this year.

The problem people have with you is you state your opinion and try to back it up like its a fact. When its not. You should realize that. You dont think theres a franchise QB in this draft. Cool. Other people do. You posting some news from former scouts and touting it as concrete evidence youre right is annoying af. And quoting a guy who claims Byron Leftwich and Teddy are soft really isn't worth taking seriously anyway.


btw im still waiting for reasons from you why you dont think Teddy is a franchise guy. Idc what youre opinion is, would just like to see you back it up with your own observations about his play rather than broad brush statements.

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Of course it wouldn't.  I'll take the team that gets to the playoffs every year.
  Especially considering the Jag's attendance issues.  You win people come, you suck people don't come.  Easy as that.  I go to the games to watch the team win.  I sure as hell don't go there to watch Gabbert stink it up and hope for a better draft selection. 

 

Amen and amen.

 

I don't care how you do it, just get it right.

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I'm trying to make myself more informed and less opinionated.

Stop saying whatever stupid thing you're talking about and pay attention to all the interesting things I have to say!

...
Ex.

Say you weigh a QB on a scale of 1-10 as a 10 and you have a prospect that you believe has a 30%  chance of being successful. You multiply the percentage by the weight and you get a score of 3. Say you have a guard you weigh as a 5 that you believe has a 70% chance of being successful. You multiply that out and you get a weighted score of 3.5. 3.5 is greater than 3 so you take the guard.

 

If you stay disciplined to this approach you would maximize the overall talent in your drafts. This way you can take longer odds on guys who will have a bigger impact without passing up true value when it is there.

 

So to answer your question, it depends. It depends on how confident you feel in the QB vs what kind of value is still on the board.

 

This is a really neat little idea that you have. A worry that I have is that now you are throwing around not one but two subjective grades. You're grading a player's talent, then his potential to not pan out. I like the idea, but it just seems like there are a lot of moving parts to the scenario.

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I'm trying to make myself more informed and less opinionated.

Stop saying whatever stupid thing you're talking about and pay attention to all the interesting things I have to say!

You forgot "in my OPINION" pirk. I for one believe Bridgewater is definitely gonna be a great in the league.

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If that RV sales place wants Tebow in Jax bad enough to take out a billboard saying as much.....they should just HIRE him.

The problem people have with you is you state your opinion and try to back it up like its a fact. When its not. You should realize that. You dont think theres a franchise QB in this draft. Cool. Other people do. You posting some news from former scouts and touting it as concrete evidence youre right is annoying af. And quoting a guy who claims Byron Leftwich and Teddy are soft really isn't worth taking seriously anyway.


btw im still waiting for reasons from you why you dont think Teddy is a franchise guy. Idc what youre opinion is, would just like to see you back it up with your own observations about his play rather than broad brush statements.

 

Given your reaction, the problem isn't with me, but with yourself.  Don't believe anything I say and look it up yourself.  I put that right in my sig as a reminder.  I won't suggest you believe anything without doing your own homework... which you really haven't shown me you do at all.  I've given my reasons time and again, contrary to your claim that I haven't.  You've summarily dismissed it when I've given my opinion (and backed it up with others that share that same opinion in print,) so this is clearly your issue and not mine.  You can't accept my opinion (yes, it is my opinion and not fact.)  Again, that's your problem and no, I don't expect you to get over it if you haven't already.  That's your choice, not mine.  It would be nice if you did, though.  But like Blackmon returning, I don't expect it even though it would be nice.

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"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."

You forgot "in my OPINION" pirk. I for one believe Bridgewater is definitely gonna be a great in the league.

 

If some of you haven't figured it out yet, isn't that what this is for... to share opinions?

 

Please point to where I stated anything, anything at all as being "fact."  Are we not mature enough to understand that opinion is implied, even if phrases like "aren't likely", "probably", and "likely" are dead giveaways to most attentive readers that we aren't talking in absolutes?

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"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."

Given your reaction, the problem isn't with me, but with yourself. Don't believe anything I say and look it up yourself. I put that right in my sig as a reminder. I won't suggest you believe anything without doing your own homework... which you really haven't shown me you do at all. I've given my reasons time and again, contrary to your claim that I haven't. You've summarily dismissed it when I've given my opinion (and backed it up with others that share that same opinion in print,) so this is clearly your issue and not mine. You can't accept my opinion (yes, it is my opinion and not fact.) Again, that's your problem and no, I don't expect you to get over it if you haven't already. That's your choice, not mine. It would be nice if you did, though. But like Blackmon returning, I don't expect it even though it would be nice.

But you havent given any reasons though. Thats my point. But I see you never will so i guess ill drop it.

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But would it really suck to "wind up like the Texans/Bengals" though?

 

Everyone was saying how Houston was the choice job out there this offseason due to the roster strength that they already possessed, all that was needed was a Quarterback to come in and push them over the top. Again, Cincinnati has a really nice roster and with some key upgrades they can really make a push. 2014 isn't the only year that the team is allowed to draft a Quarterback. If there is a non-Quarterback who will provide a greater impact, I'm all for taking him until a Quarterback fits the talent level of the remaining talent pool.

It depends on what your version of success is. I want to win super bowls, so yeah I would be disappointed if we maxed out at the Texans or Bengals level. 

 

Can we be done with this "purgatory" bellywash?

 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/0ap200000...2011-class

 

<p style="margin-left:40px;">"Just average," is how one NFC personnel exec described this QB class. "The kid from Central Florida (Blake Bortles) has a chance to be really good. (Johnny) Manziel scares me -- he's 50-50. (Teddy) Bridgewater reminds me a little of Byron Leftwich, in that he's a little soft. (Derek) Carr's just good. You take one of them in the third round, you're happy with that. The problem is, if you really want one of these guys, you almost have to take them in the first."

<p style="margin-left:40px;"> 

<p style="margin-left:40px;">Several high-level evaluators said four players appear to stand out in this year's class: South Carolina defensive end Jadeveon Clowney, Buffalo outside linebacker Khalil Mack, Auburn offensive tackle Greg Robinson and Clemson receiver Sammy Watkins.

<p style="margin-left:40px;">The NFC personnel exec opined that Bortles, if given a pure grade based on his potential, would probably fall in a cluster of eight or so players behind those top four. The rest, he said, might not be any better than second-round talents.

 

At some point, can't we simply accept we aren't likely to land a franchise QB no matter how high we select one?  And that selecting one at #3 is probably not a risk worth taking when there's much better talent available at other positions of just as great if not greater need?  Instead, all indicators seem to suggest taking one in the second round or later is likely to bring you a similar caliber QB, but at the right price.

 

I don't understand why it must be repeated time and again:

 

It's certainly not franchise QB or bust in 2014 for the Jaguars.  It is not now or never.  We will find one even if it isn't this year.

Pardon me for laughing uncontrollably and dismissing the opinion of a scout that A) would compare Leftwich to Teddy and B) would call either of them soft. 

---

It depends on what your version of success is. I want to win super bowls, so yeah I would be disappointed if we maxed out at the Texans or Bengals level. 

 

... 

 

Who is to say that either Houston or Cincinnati is maxed out though? Aren't they still allowed to draft? Can they not add talent to their roster?

 

I get your point that you don't want to be satisfied with simply getting into the Playoffs, but I feel like it is important to note that even a once in a lifetime QB such as Peyton Manning still has a losing postseason record and went one and done his first three times at a Playoff game.

---

I'm trying to make myself more informed and less opinionated.

Stop saying whatever stupid thing you're talking about and pay attention to all the interesting things I have to say!

Who is to say that either Houston or Cincinnati is maxed out though? Aren't they still allowed to draft? Can they not add talent to their roster?

 

I get your point that you don't want to be satisfied with simply getting into the Playoffs, but I feel like it is important to note that even a once in a lifetime QB such as Peyton Manning still has a losing postseason record and went one and done his first three times at a Playoff game.

Houston might...because they got their super lucky suck-w/-a-talented-team like the Colts did to get Luck, but you certainly can't count on that. The Bengals are already up against the salary cap, lost impact players like Johnson, have to give AJ Green a massive contract, and will have to give Dalton a 100 mil Cutler/Romo type deal thus losing even more impact players (you know the ones that actually led them to the playoffs, not Dalton himself), or start all over w/ a rookie QB and pray.

 

If you don't have a tip top franchise guy your playoff/SB window is not that long before you have to overhaul the roster. You're going to lose Mario WIlliams, Demeco Ryans, Chris Myers building blocks...that's just how it is. It can be extended a little if you have the Dalton on a rookie cap type, but once it's time for second QB contracts you better have a Peyton/Brees/Rodgers/etc to carry you annually or you're praying for the Eli/Flacco lightning in a bottle scenario...if you have a Dalton/Schaub/Garrard/Sanchez you're just totally screwed.

 

I could keep going, but this is getting long and I've gone over my personal long term philosophies ad nauseum on these forums about it. I understand some people just want to see any kind of winning around here and that's fine for them, but if you don't win SBs (or at least get to them) no one else cares...and I want the Jags to matter. It's great that we can romanticize about the '96 and '99 seasons, but literally no one outside of Jags fans care...and I want everyone else to be forced to care about us. 

---

Who is to say that either Houston or Cincinnati is maxed out though? Aren't they still allowed to draft? Can they not add talent to their roster?

 

I get your point that you don't want to be satisfied with simply getting into the Playoffs, but I feel like it is important to note that even a once in a lifetime QB such as Peyton Manning still has a losing postseason record and went one and done his first three times at a Playoff game.

 

What teams that had above average QBs really keep swinging with high picks to find a better one? They all think what they have will be good enough and its not. 

---

But you havent given any reasons though. Thats my point. But I see you never will so i guess ill drop it.

I have.  On several occasions.  You're simply in denial.

 

Remember the gloves issue you (and others) laughed off when I brought it up months in advance of even the combine?  I see it's not so funny anymore, now that it's a national story that it wrecked his pro day.  Again... every time I'm been asked to repeat myself again and again... it's always the same empty response with you.  You seem ridiculously ignorant of what I've had to say, for someone who acts like they know what I have and haven't said.  I've got no obligation to repeat myself dozens of times just because you're too intellectually lazy to do it yourself (and especially because I know I'm dealing with no rocket scientist here...)

---

"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."

It depends on what your version of success is. I want to win super bowls, so yeah I would be disappointed if we maxed out at the Texans or Bengals level. 

 

Pardon me for laughing uncontrollably and dismissing the opinion of a scout that A) would compare Leftwich to Teddy and B) would call either of them soft. 

 

You would laugh at such a sage observation, especially since you're a scout wannabe (as opposed to the real thing who made the observation.)

 

Both come from weak conferences but did not necessarily play poorly the few times they faced better competition.  Both were gunslingers.  Both had questionable footwoork, and both had to play through injuries during their careers.  Sounds to me as if he's suggesting (like what happened with Leftwich)  what appeared to be "toughness" in college may turn into a proneness for injury at the NFL level with bigger, faster, and harder hitting opponents (especially since Ted's frame and build are so much slighter than Leftwich.)  Both have a very high football IQ, but as Leftwich proved, it doesn't always translate.

 

The more you look at it, the more you see what's similar.  In a nutshell, that's probably the best comparison I see that describes how I feel as well.  Almost everything (but not all) you'd like to see in a QB on paper, but a guy who is questionable about how it will translate at the next level.  His footwork and gloves may be the achilles heel that Leftwich's windup was.  The windup never, ever was a problem in college.  The NFL is just bigger, faster, and stronger where the timing is faster and the windows smaller.

---

"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."

Who is to say that either Houston or Cincinnati is maxed out though? Aren't they still allowed to draft? Can they not add talent to their roster?

 

I get your point that you don't want to be satisfied with simply getting into the Playoffs, but I feel like it is important to note that even a once in a lifetime QB such as Peyton Manning still has a losing postseason record and went one and done his first three times at a Playoff game.

 

Sorry to interrupt, but I'm over here in the corner chuckling. As a Jaguars fan I can't help but be amused at someone bemoaning the fact that the Jaguars may be a team that only continuously makes the playoffs. Oh my God.

 

That is the goal - to make the playoffs. After that it's up to the football gods. If it's your year you win the Super Bowl. If not, you still had a heck of a season.

 

And we're debating if we should be satisfied "with simply getting to the playoffs"? Please.

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The sun's not yellow, it's chicken.

I have. On several occasions. You're simply in denial.


Remember the gloves issue you (and others) laughed off when I brought it up months in advance of even the combine? I see it's not so funny anymore, now that it's a national story that it wrecked his pro day. Again... every time I'm been asked to repeat myself again and again... it's always the same empty response with you. You seem ridiculously ignorant of what I've had to say, for someone who acts like they know what I have and haven't said. I've got no obligation to repeat myself dozens of times just because you're too intellectually lazy to do it yourself (and especially because I know I'm dealing with no rocket scientist here...)

You could have wrote 3 sentences explaining what you dont like about Teddy but instead you write a long paragraph with no substance. Dont question other people's intelligence when you dont know anything about them other than their opinion on football. It just makes you look like the extremely ignorant one.

---

I have.  On several occasions.  You're simply in denial.

 

Remember the gloves issue you (and others) laughed off when I brought it up months in advance of even the combine?  I see it's not so funny anymore, now that it's a national story that it wrecked his pro day.  Again... every time I'm been asked to repeat myself again and again... it's always the same empty response with you.  You seem ridiculously ignorant of what I've had to say, for someone who acts like they know what I have and haven't said.  I've got no obligation to repeat myself dozens of times just because you're too intellectually lazy to do it yourself (and especially because I know I'm dealing with no rocket scientist here...)

 

 

You would laugh at such a sage observation, especially since you're a scout wannabe (as opposed to the real thing who made the observation.)

 

Both come from weak conferences but did not necessarily play poorly the few times they faced better competition.  Both were gunslingers.  Both had questionable footwoork, and both had to play through injuries during their careers.  Sounds to me as if he's suggesting (like what happened with Leftwich)  what appeared to be "toughness" in college may turn into a proneness for injury at the NFL level with bigger, faster, and harder hitting opponents (especially since Ted's frame and build are so much slighter than Leftwich.)  Both have a very high football IQ, but as Leftwich proved, it doesn't always translate.

 

The more you look at it, the more you see what's similar.  In a nutshell, that's probably the best comparison I see that describes how I feel as well.  Almost everything (but not all) you'd like to see in a QB on paper, but a guy who is questionable about how it will translate at the next level.  His footwork and gloves may be the achilles heel that Leftwich's windup was.  The windup never, ever was a problem in college.  The NFL is just bigger, faster, and stronger where the timing is faster and the windows smaller.

 

Two things:

 

1) Could you define what you mean by "gunslinger?"

 

2) I'll go on record as saying I still laugh at the gloves being an issue.  It's the media doing what the media does: overhype the prospect, then rip him apart.  It's a non-story, but it gets clicks.

 

Sorry to interrupt, but I'm over here in the corner chuckling. As a Jaguars fan I can't help but be amused at someone bemoaning the fact that the Jaguars may be a team that only continuously makes the playoffs. Oh my God.

 

That is the goal - to make the playoffs. After that it's up to the football gods. If it's your year you win the Super Bowl. If not, you still had a heck of a season.

 

And we're debating if we should be satisfied "with simply getting to the playoffs"? Please.

 

God, seriously.  If you told me any player we draft would consistently get us to the playoffs for the next decade, I'd pretend to be Caldwell and draft him myself at 3.

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Sorry to interrupt, but I'm over here in the corner chuckling. As a Jaguars fan I can't help but be amused at someone bemoaning the fact that the Jaguars may be a team that only continuously makes the playoffs. Oh my God.

That is the goal - to make the playoffs. After that it's up to the football gods. If it's your year you win the Super Bowl. If not, you still had a heck of a season.


And we're debating if we should be satisfied "with simply getting to the playoffs"? Please.

Believe me, I am with you on that. I can't imagine how miserable a person must be if they will only be happy with Super Bowl wins.


Don't get me wrong, I want one of those as well but to think that I'm going to go around griping because we 'only' get to the playoffs year after year is laughable at best

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I'm trying to make myself more informed and less opinionated.

Stop saying whatever stupid thing you're talking about and pay attention to all the interesting things I have to say!

You could have wrote 3 sentences explaining what you dont like about Teddy but instead you write a long paragraph with no substance. Dont question other people's intelligence when you dont know anything about them other than their opinion on football. It just makes you look like the extremely ignorant one.

He hasn't done it because he simply doesn't have any original analysis. Everything he has said about Teddy has been parroted from whichever unnamed NFL scout or talking head happens to knock him at the time. 

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