A WR at three is not what I call maximum value when he's only going to be involved in 8-10 snaps a game.


 

I disagree.   A dominant WR forces double coverage, and drags the safety away from the line of scrimmage, and that means he is involved in EVERY play. 

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clemons and babin are band aids not fixes so they might help for a few years but they will need replacing at some point.

 

Added mack is an olb that can rush the passer and I don't think he would be an every down leo, but I think mack would be a great addition as you could do so much with him

 

taking our finished front 7 with depth as being

 

bryant/ alualu at 5tech

miller/ rookie at 1 tech

marks/ hood at 3 tech

leo clemons, babin, branch, davis

mlb poz reynolds

olb hayes watson mack allen

 

on a guaranteed passing down say 3rd and 6 you could put a front 7 lightening

of marks clemons mack watson with one hand down at the line

allen hayes, and poz standing up

 

all 7 can get to the passer and 5 of those 7 can drop effectively into coverage

you know at least 4 will be rushing but you don't know where from that's confusing and worrying and would make the qb get the ball out quicker

add in red bryant and a healthy roy miller to our run d and i think we could really have something

Ok look at the DL and LEO on the roster... now look at the WR's (minus Blackmon, who is a big question mark).  Which area needs more help?  Which player between Mack and Watkins is rated higher on most boards?   I was all for taking Mack before FA, but now Watkins just makes more sense IMO.

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I disagree.   A dominant WR forces double coverage, and drags the safety away from the line of scrimmage, and that means he is involved in EVERY play. 

Exactly.  And Watkins is said to be one of the few "sure things" in this draft.  That tag is of course subjective, but none of the QB's are being called that.  I see Watkins as a pretty safe pick, a guy who can have an immediate impact, and a big area of need.

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apologies accidental phone post

doing a proper one now 

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Ok look at the DL and LEO on the roster... now look at the WR's (minus Blackmon, who is a big question mark).  Which area needs more help?  Which player between Mack and Watkins is rated higher on most boards?   I was all for taking Mack before FA, but now Watkins just makes more sense IMO.

apologies again proper response

 

my objection to watkins at 3 isn't really an objection against watkins as a player. Don't get me wrong he is an explosive playmaker and a nicely polished wide receiver with good hands and a knack for making big plays and I would love to have him on the roster but I am very against taking a wideout that high

 

regardless of blackmons status I wouldn't address the wide receiver position before the 4th round. I feel like this draft has enough depth that we could find impact receivers in the later rounds to take place on the roster next to brown shorts and sanders

 

you are going to get a  wide receiver like benjamin or beckham with so much potential in the back end of the first or even the second round, a great guy like moncrief in the 3rd or even an abbederis in the 4th. Plus having seen what sullivan can do with guys like shorts, brown and sanders I have faith in his ability to make gems of late round guys.

 
last year we were 21st in passing yards with henne and gabbert under centre, 31st in rushing and joint last in sacks which to me says it all and remember we have only added 2 pass rushers in fa

 

chris clemons a 32 year old coming off an acl injury and watson an unproven olb. Yes it's an improvement and a welcome one but if clemons gets injured again or isn't as productive after the injury we're in a similar spot to last year. We start pressuring our opponents and we will start getting turnovers, the offense will get more time on the ball and so we will put up more passing yards.

 

add to that watkins is not exactly better value than mack at 3

 

mack isn't von miller and watkins is not megatron a 6-5 guy running a sub 4.4 but both are very good players worthy of a top 10 pick and both have the talent to be potential probowlers.

 

however we can afford to take a wideout and ignore a clowney or a mack who could become the centrepiece of our defense and by their play and the attention they would take elevate that of our whole defense

 

if i had to choose a wide out in this draft I would take:

moncrief in the 3rd

cody latimer in the 5th

jeff janis in the 6th

l'damian washington in the 7th

 

all of them are big frame guys with good speed and ounces of potential for sullivan to develop allowing us to use the higher round picks building our lines

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apologies again proper response

 

my objection to watkins at 3 isn't really an objection against watkins as a player. Don't get me wrong he is an explosive playmaker and a nicely polished wide receiver with good hands and a knack for making big plays and I would love to have him on the roster but I am very against taking a wideout that high

 

regardless of blackmons status I wouldn't address the wide receiver position before the 4th round. I feel like this draft has enough depth that we could find impact receivers in the later rounds to take place on the roster next to brown shorts and sanders

 

you are going to get a  wide receiver like benjamin or beckham with so much potential in the back end of the first or even the second round, a great guy like moncrief in the 3rd or even an abbederis in the 4th. Plus having seen what sullivan can do with guys like shorts, brown and sanders I have faith in his ability to make gems of late round guys.

<div> 
last year we were 21st in passing yards with henne and gabbert under centre, 31st in rushing and joint last in sacks which to me says it all and remember we have only added 2 pass rushers in fa

 

chris clemons a 32 year old coming off an acl injury and watson an unproven olb. Yes it's an improvement and a welcome one but if clemons gets injured again or isn't as productive after the injury we're in a similar spot to last year. We start pressuring our opponents and we will start getting turnovers, the offense will get more time on the ball and so we will put up more passing yards.

 

add to that watkins is not exactly better value than mack at 3

 

mack isn't von miller and watkins is not megatron a 6-5 guy running a sub 4.4 but both are very good players worthy of a top 10 pick and both have the talent to be potential probowlers.

 

however we can afford to take a wideout and ignore a clowney or a mack who could become the centrepiece of our defense and by their play and the attention they would take elevate that of our whole defense

 

if i had to choose a wide out in this draft I would take:

moncrief in the 3rd

cody latimer in the 5th

jeff janis in the 6th

l'damian washington in the 7th

 

all of them are big frame guys with good speed and ounces of potential for sullivan to develop allowing us to use the higher round picks building our lines

</div>

I agree.  There will be impactful receivers beyond round 2.  Pass rushers?   Not nearly as certain.  

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apologies again proper response

 

my objection to watkins at 3 isn't really an objection against watkins as a player. Don't get me wrong he is an explosive playmaker and a nicely polished wide receiver with good hands and a knack for making big plays and I would love to have him on the roster but I am very against taking a wideout that high

 

regardless of blackmons status I wouldn't address the wide receiver position before the 4th round. I feel like this draft has enough depth that we could find impact receivers in the later rounds to take place on the roster next to brown shorts and sanders

 

you are going to get a  wide receiver like benjamin or beckham with so much potential in the back end of the first or even the second round, a great guy like moncrief in the 3rd or even an abbederis in the 4th. Plus having seen what sullivan can do with guys like shorts, brown and sanders I have faith in his ability to make gems of late round guys.

<div> 
last year we were 21st in passing yards with henne and gabbert under centre, 31st in rushing and joint last in sacks which to me says it all and remember we have only added 2 pass rushers in fa

 

chris clemons a 32 year old coming off an acl injury and watson an unproven olb. Yes it's an improvement and a welcome one but if clemons gets injured again or isn't as productive after the injury we're in a similar spot to last year. We start pressuring our opponents and we will start getting turnovers, the offense will get more time on the ball and so we will put up more passing yards.

 

add to that watkins is not exactly better value than mack at 3

 

mack isn't von miller and watkins is not megatron a 6-5 guy running a sub 4.4 but both are very good players worthy of a top 10 pick and both have the talent to be potential probowlers.

 

however we can afford to take a wideout and ignore a clowney or a mack who could become the centrepiece of our defense and by their play and the attention they would take elevate that of our whole defense

 

if i had to choose a wide out in this draft I would take:

moncrief in the 3rd

cody latimer in the 5th

jeff janis in the 6th

l'damian washington in the 7th

 

all of them are big frame guys with good speed and ounces of potential for sullivan to develop allowing us to use the higher round picks building our lines

</div>

I like Mack.  He would be my second choice at #3.  It will come down to him, Clowney and Watkins I believe. 

 

If we take Mack in the 1st, I don't see us taking a WR until the 4th probably, and there will be no starters there at WR, much less impact players.  Either QB or WR gets pushed back.

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I like Mack.  He would be my second choice at #3.  It will come down to him, Clowney and Watkins I believe. 

 

The only problem is we need WR and OG and Center worse than a pass-rusher right now. 

 

If we take Mack in the 1st, I don't see us taking a WR until the 4th probably, and there will be no starters there at WR, much less impact players. 

guard and centre are our biggest need simply because the people there right are... based on past performance not fit for purpose

however no guard or centre has a first round grade

i'm really keen for us to go guard in the second centre in the third but i really disagree on your opinion of our pass rushing situation

as much as i hope clemons will solve our problems

 

one there is no guarantee he will be as effective coming off his injury

two he probably has 2-3 good years left tops

 

oh and just to note

 

ace sanders 4th round was a starter in the slot and an impact player

and this wide receiver draft is far deeper than last years

odds are there will be talent available in the 4th

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guard and centre are our biggest need simply because the people there right are... based on past performance not fit for purpose

however no guard or centre has a first round grade

i'm really keen for us to go guard in the second centre in the third but i really disagree on your opinion of our pass rushing situation

as much as i hope clemons will solve our problems

 

one there is no guarantee he will be as effective coming off his injury

two he probably has 2-3 good years left tops

 

oh and just to note

 

ace sanders 4th round was a starter in the slot and an impact player

and this wide receiver draft is far deeper than last years

odds are there will be talent available in the 4th

Sanders was far from an impact player.  Did you watch the games?  LOL.  He was drafted as a return guy who would get some time in the slot, and he was forced into a starting role due to injuries and Blackmon's suspension.  This year we need a starter to replace Blackmon's production, IMO.  That's why I am so high on Watkins in the 1st.  Watkins, Evans, Beckham, Cooks, Lee and Benjamin will most likely all be gone by our pick in the 2nd.  Moncrief will probably go at the end of the 2nd to somebody like Denver, S.F. or New England.  Good luck finding an impact, starting WR after that.  I have 11 WR's going in the first two rounds in my latest mock.  I think that is very realistic.  Many other teams need WR's, so they are going to recognize all the talent and pounce.

 

I also like OG or Center in the 2nd round.  In the mock I did here, I just envisioned Caldwell getting impatient and taking Garoppolo.  I don't even really want him though.   If we sign another vet OG or Center to start, which is my hope, maybe we could take Mack in the 1st and still be all right with something like this draft:

 

Rnd 1 - OLB/DE K. Mack

Rnd 2 - WR Jordan Matthews or Allen Robinson (either could be starters, but not the impact of Watkins)

Rnd 3 - Starting OG or Center depending on who else we sign before draft

Rnd 4 - Best available QB

 

Looking more and more like no franchise QB for us again this year.

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At this point, the only way I see Clowney falling to #3 to us is if nobody trades up to #2 to get him,  and the Rams decide to bypass him and just go ahead and take Watkins there.  Then we would most likely take Clowney. 

 

I guess a team could trade up to #2 for a QB after Bortles goes #1, but it's looking more and more like that won't happen and Bridgewater and Manziel both will fall a little.

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Sanders was far from an impact player.  Did you watch the games?  LOL.  He was drafted as a return guy who would get some time in the slot, and he was forced into a starting role due to injuries and Blackmon's suspension.  This year we need a starter to replace Blackmon's production, IMO.  That's why I am so high on Watkins in the 1st.  Watkins, Evans, Beckham, Cooks, Lee and Benjamin will most likely all be gone by our pick in the 2nd.  Moncrief will probably go at the end of the 2nd to somebody like Denver, S.F. or New England.  Good luck finding an impact, starting WR after that.  I have 11 WR's going in the first two rounds in my latest mock.  I think that is very realistic.  Many other teams need WR's, so they are going to recognize all the talent and pounce.

 

I also like OG or Center in the 2nd round.  In the mock I did here, I just envisioned Caldwell getting impatient and taking Garoppolo.  I don't even really want him though.   If we sign another vet OG or Center to start, which is my hope, maybe we could take Mack in the 1st and still be all right with something like this draft:

 

Rnd 1 - OLB/DE K. Mack

Rnd 2 - WR Jordan Matthews or Allen Robinson (either could be starters, but not the impact of Watkins)

Rnd 3 - Starting OG or Center depending on who else we sign before draft

Rnd 4 - Best available QB

 

Looking more and more like no franchise QB for us again this year.

 

i'm not criticising your mock it's as good and as realistic for any i've seen going 50+ picks in

do i watch the games? no i come on here with absolutely no basis just for the kicks... no need to be condescending just because i disagree with you that wide receiver is our biggest need

i just really don't see the jags going wide receiver that high and this being a forum i feel like debating that point

 

 sanders was second in receptions and yards for us last year whilst he was moved round the field and into the backfield for the sole purpose of getting him the ball to try make plays

i call that making an impact

is he going to be a number one or two receiver on the roster, no but i think he can be our number 4 on the roster and our punt returner for the forseeable future.

and right now as our number 3 he did a good job and should get another shot in the slot next year

 

just on the clowney point

clowney is used to being and really built to be a 4-3 de so i doubt houston go for him given that they have traded schaub and their main need is a qb

the rams have two excellent de's already and could use that number 1 pick on strengthening an area of need either wr or right tackle or trading for more picks over going clowney and then having to try and orchestrate a trade for one of those de's

the only people i can see trading for clowney is atlanta especially after tampa picked up michael johnson

cleveland i believe are going to run a 3-4 and have barkevious mingo for the 3-4 olb postion

oakland have too many needs to package picks.

added minnesota and atlanta would probably prefer to trade with someone out of their conference especially as st louis have already done far too well out of the rg 3 deal and are becoming a strong unit.

also it would cost less to trade lower down the order and caldwell has connections with dimitroff.

I would be very surprised if clowney or mack were not their for us at 3

i actually see mack more likely to go to houston and st louis as the rams are missing a piece in that front 7 next to ogletree and laurinitus and houston have a weak lb core in that 3-4. A dominant olb could be a huge boon for their defense

 

me if i had to go a top 8 no trades

i'd go houston teddy

st louis greg robinson

jags clowney

cleveland johnny manziel

oakland sammy watkins

atlanta khalil mack

tampa jake matthews

minnesota blake bortles

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i'm not criticising your mock it's as good and as realistic for any i've seen going 50+ picks in

do i watch the games? no i come on here with absolutely no basis just for the kicks... no need to be condescending just because i disagree with you that wide receiver is our biggest need

i just really don't see the jags going wide receiver that high and this being a forum i feel like debating that point

 

 sanders was second in receptions and yards for us last year whilst he was moved round the field and into the backfield for the sole purpose of getting him the ball to try make plays

i call that making an impact

is he going to be a number one or two receiver on the roster, no but i think he can be our number 4 on the roster and our punt returner for the forseeable future.

and right now as our number 3 he did a good job and should get another shot in the slot next year

 

just on the clowney point

clowney is used to being and really built to be a 4-3 de so i doubt houston go for him given that they have traded schaub and their main need is a qb

the rams have two excellent de's already and could use that number 1 pick on strengthening an area of need either wr or right tackle or trading for more picks over going clowney and then having to try and orchestrate a trade for one of those de's

the only people i can see trading for clowney is atlanta especially after tampa picked up michael johnson

cleveland i believe are going to run a 3-4 and have barkevious mingo for the 3-4 olb postion

oakland have too many needs to package picks.

added minnesota and atlanta would probably prefer to trade with someone out of their conference especially as st louis have already done far too well out of the rg 3 deal and are becoming a strong unit.

also it would cost less to trade lower down the order and caldwell has connections with dimitroff.

I would be very surprised if clowney or mack were not their for us at 3

i actually see mack more likely to go to houston and st louis as the rams are missing a piece in that front 7 next to ogletree and laurinitus and houston have a weak lb core in that 3-4. A dominant olb could be a huge boon for their defense

 

me if i had to go a top 8 no trades

i'd go houston teddy

st louis greg robinson

jags clowney

cleveland johnny manziel

oakland sammy watkins

atlanta khalil mack

tampa jake matthews

minnesota blake bortles

I wasn't trying to be condescending towards you.  However, we obviously have a very different idea of what an "impact WR" should be.  Sure, Sanders was 2nd in receptions for us, bt that's not saying much.  He was 97th in the NFL in yardage, had ONE touchdown, and ONE play over 40 yards.  The game seemed to big and too fast for him most of the time from where I sat.  Far from an impact WR, so that's why I was half way serious when I asked if you watch the games.  

 

Without any trades, I think the top 8 you have listed there could be very realistic.  There will probably be two trades in the top 8 though, and maybe 3 trades if the Jets move up to take a CB.  

 

1. HOU - QB B. Bortles

2. OAK - DE J. Clowney (from STL)

3. ATL - OLB K. Mack (from JAC)

4. CLE - QB T. Bridgewater

5. STL - OT G. Robinson (from OAK)

6. JAC - WR S. Watkins (from ATL)

7. TAM - OT J. Matthews 

8. NYJ - CB D. Dennard (from MIN)

9. BUF - OT T. Lewan

10. DET - CB J. Gilbert

 

*Oakland bypasses the QB hype and trades up to nab Clowney to make up for some of their questionable free agent moves on the D-line.

*Atlanta fears Cleveland will snag OLB Mack at #4, so they ring up their old buddy Caldwell for a trade.  They help Caldwell out by giving him an extra 3rd round pick, and Caldwell helps them out by going easy on them with only requiring a 3rd round pick for the swap.  Caldwell gambles that Sammy Watkins is still there at #6, and in this scenario he is.

*Rex Ryan is appeased, and the Jets move up to take the best CB in the draft at #8.  Minnesota trades down and takes Johnny Manziel at #18 after he falls. 

 

<p style="margin-left:0px;">*In round 2, since Oakland traded their pick, and Minnesota, Houston and Cleveland got their QB's in round 1,  Derek Carr falls to the Jags at #39.  We then take OG and OC in round 3. 

<p style="margin-left:0px;"> 

<p style="margin-left:0px;">1. WR S. Watkins

<p style="margin-left:0px;">2. QB D. Carr

<p style="margin-left:0px;">3. OC Weston Richburg

<p style="margin-left:0px;">3. OG Brandon Thomas

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double post

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