I’ve seen some really good ideas.

None of them are in this thread.

We're listening.  What are the good ideas?

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"I want $80k per catch!"

"Well we want $115k per tackle!"

"Well I want $1.5 million per sack!"

"I don't care what ya'll get but we want $2 million per TD pass"

If guys got paid weekly per recognized stats or metrics combined with getting paid a big bonus for winning the super bowl and smaller bonuses for the division crown and playoff wins, it would make things very interesting and even more exciting.  NFLPA would never, though.

If it was a "whichever is more" proposition they might go for it.  It would give the players a chance of earning more with no risk of earning less.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

"I want $80k per catch!"

"Well we want $115k per tackle!"

"Well I want $1.5 million per sack!"

"I don't care what ya'll get but we want $2 million per TD pass"

I'm only talking about new rookie and UDFA contracts.
All the other position groups shouldn't get jealous because they are usually getting nice second contracts.
But in case they did get jealous over this idea, a simple $20k per snap would solve it.  A salary based on your draft position, or $20k per snap, whichever is more.  Everybody wins.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

This feels very much like one of those "If it a'int broke, don't fix it" situations.

I'm perfectly fine with the NFL going through cycles of value ebb and flow at various positions.

Seems normal.

The game changes, the rules change, the number of capable athletes with various traits entering the pro market changes, and so ultimately, positional value will always be in some state of flux.

RB value is in a trough. Fine. Give it till the end of the CBA and re-evaluate.

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This feels very much like one of those "If it a'int broke, don't fix it" situations.

I'm perfectly fine with the NFL going through cycles of value ebb and flow at various positions.

Seems normal.

The game changes, the rules change, the number of capable athletes with various traits entering the pro market changes, and so ultimately, positional value will always be in some state of flux.

RB value is in a trough. Fine. Give it till the end of the CBA and re-evaluate.

I think ETN is paid fairly.  My concern is more about guys like James Robinson.  He got screwed, and there are more like him.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

This feels very much like one of those "If it a'int broke, don't fix it" situations.

I'm perfectly fine with the NFL going through cycles of value ebb and flow at various positions.

Seems normal.

The game changes, the rules change, the number of capable athletes with various traits entering the pro market changes, and so ultimately, positional value will always be in some state of flux.

RB value is in a trough. Fine. Give it till the end of the CBA and re-evaluate.

I think ETN is paid fairly.  My concern is more about guys like James Robinson.  He got screwed, and there are more like him.

JR earned $5,500 per carry so far in his career. I'd say he's just fine considering that he's been used up since his second year. The Achilles injury made a slow guy tortoise-like and he's had opportunities that his body just can't leverage into a contract. Heck, he's got a $1 million dollar deal right now with the Saints, they should pay him more when he'll be lucky to make the team? Nah, he's been paid more than fairly for what he's produced in his career; he's not worth 4 times 4 times that amount.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

"I want $80k per catch!"

"Well we want $115k per tackle!"

"Well I want $1.5 million per sack!"

"I don't care what ya'll get but we want $2 million per TD pass"

If guys got paid weekly per recognized stats or metrics combined with getting paid a big bonus for winning the super bowl and smaller bonuses for the division crown and playoff wins, it would make things very interesting and even more exciting.  NFLPA would never, though.

WR would never throw a block on an end around or sweep unless you were paying em to do so.

There's so much to the game that don't fit on a stat sheet that would make this completely unfeasible.

Could you imagine teammates fighting over a loose ball to be sure they were the one that got the bonus appended to their salary?

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Yep.  That's where storytime begins.  Ever hear the one about Jack Del Rio and some of his teammates armed with crowbars and baseball bats sitting on a tailgate by the stadium?

No. No clue what that is about. 

But JDR and that ilk are ancient and extinct dinosaurs in the landscape of the modern athlete. 

There may come a day when the RB financial "inequity" (if you want to go that far) changes, but I'd wager it will be well down the road and not a result of some mass holdout. 

More likely just a result of young athletes shying away from the position more and more over time unless they know the NFL is not in their future. Less surplus may notch up demand, but even that is unlikely as the league continues to embolden the passing game with rules changes and safety measures. Making the run game and those ball carriers even more devalued.

Striking players didn't take kindly to scabs.

Didn't necessarily see that coming from a guy like JDR, but if you said Bill Romanowski was wielding the crowbar, I'd have asked whether he was taking it easy on the guys because they were kin or something.

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"I want $80k per catch!"

"Well we want $115k per tackle!"

"Well I want $1.5 million per sack!"

"I don't care what ya'll get but we want $2 million per TD pass"

I'm only talking about new rookie and UDFA contracts.
All the other position groups shouldn't get jealous because they are usually getting nice second contracts.
But in case they did get jealous over this idea, a simple $20k per snap would solve it.  A salary based on your draft position, or $20k per snap, whichever is more.  Everybody wins.

Do you count kick coverage as a snap?
Do you count preseason snaps?
Do you count plays that are called back by penalty as a snap?

Not as easy as you may initially think. I promise that when agents/lawyers get involved, NOTHING is easy.

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I think ETN is paid fairly.  My concern is more about guys like James Robinson.  He got screwed, and there are more like him.

JR earned $5,500 per carry so far in his career. I'd say he's just fine considering that he's been used up since his second year. The Achilles injury made a slow guy tortoise-like and he's had opportunities that his body just can't leverage into a contract. Heck, he's got a $1 million dollar deal right now with the Saints, they should pay him more when he'll be lucky to make the team? Nah, he's been paid more than fairly for what he's produced in his career; he's not worth 4 times 4 times that amount.

I was told the Jets got a steal when the Jags traded him...

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I think ETN is paid fairly.  My concern is more about guys like James Robinson.  He got screwed, and there are more like him.

JR earned $5,500 per carry so far in his career. I'd say he's just fine considering that he's been used up since his second year. The Achilles injury made a slow guy tortoise-like and he's had opportunities that his body just can't leverage into a contract. Heck, he's got a $1 million dollar deal right now with the Saints, they should pay him more when he'll be lucky to make the team? Nah, he's been paid more than fairly for what he's produced in his career; he's not worth 4 times 4 times that amount.

He's not getting carries anymore.
He WAS worth more than that, for sure.  4x more? 8x more? I don't know.  But for sure, more.  Most RBs had fewer carries than him in 2020 and 2021 and most RBs made more than him.  He got screwed.

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I'm only talking about new rookie and UDFA contracts.
All the other position groups shouldn't get jealous because they are usually getting nice second contracts.
But in case they did get jealous over this idea, a simple $20k per snap would solve it.  A salary based on your draft position, or $20k per snap, whichever is more.  Everybody wins.

Do you count kick coverage as a snap?
Do you count preseason snaps?
Do you count plays that are called back by penalty as a snap?

Not as easy as you may initially think. I promise that when agents/lawyers get involved, NOTHING is easy.

Yes, no, yes.  It's only hard if you don't want it to happen.  Americans need to start questioning the sincerity of critics.  We live in a culture of dishonesty and obstruction.

---

My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

JR earned $5,500 per carry so far in his career. I'd say he's just fine considering that he's been used up since his second year. The Achilles injury made a slow guy tortoise-like and he's had opportunities that his body just can't leverage into a contract. Heck, he's got a $1 million dollar deal right now with the Saints, they should pay him more when he'll be lucky to make the team? Nah, he's been paid more than fairly for what he's produced in his career; he's not worth 4 times 4 times that amount.

He's not getting carries anymore.
He WAS worth more than that, for sure.  4x more? 8x more? I don't know.  But for sure, more.  Most RBs had fewer carries than him in 2020 and 2021 and most RBs made more than him.  He got screwed.

---

Do you count kick coverage as a snap?
Do you count preseason snaps?
Do you count plays that are called back by penalty as a snap?

Not as easy as you may initially think. I promise that when agents/lawyers get involved, NOTHING is easy.

Yes, no, yes.  It's only hard if you don't want it to happen.  Americans need to start questioning the sincerity of critics.  We live in a culture of dishonesty and obstruction.

JR didn't get screwed - he got hurt. 

Happens to dozens of gifted players every year that may have had a very different financial outcome if healthy. 

Unfortunately - it's really bad business for teams to try to find ways to compensate every affordable player who ends up being productive for a time.  The league has their own contingency in place for this, even if it isn't as much as you seem to think they should get. 

Here's the league's performance based pay adjustments for the year 2020:

https://nflpaweb.blob.core.windows.net/w...0d3a106e82

You'll find James Robinson, Adam Gotsis, Tre Herndon and a few other Jags on cheap deals that saw a six figure bump from the league.
(Brock Purdy got $740K from this fund after his 2023 campaign)

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He's not getting carries anymore.
He WAS worth more than that, for sure.  4x more? 8x more? I don't know.  But for sure, more.  Most RBs had fewer carries than him in 2020 and 2021 and most RBs made more than him.  He got screwed.

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Yes, no, yes.  It's only hard if you don't want it to happen.  Americans need to start questioning the sincerity of critics.  We live in a culture of dishonesty and obstruction.

JR didn't get screwed - he got hurt. 

Happens to dozens of gifted players every year that may have had a very different financial outcome if healthy. 

Unfortunately - it's really bad business for teams to try to find ways to compensate every affordable player who ends up being productive for a time.  The league has their own contingency in place for this, even if it isn't as much as you seem to think they should get. 

Here's the league's performance based pay adjustments for the year 2020:

https://nflpaweb.blob.core.windows.net/w...0d3a106e82

You'll find James Robinson, Adam Gotsis, Tre Herndon and a few other Jags on cheap deals that saw a six figure bump from the league.
(Brock Purdy got $740K from this fund after his 2023 campaign)

Right.  That fund is based on snap count (but WAAHH I thought snap count was hard!).  In 2020 that fund bumped his pay for the year by about $250k to about $1 million dollars. We can assume with 1 accrued year he got a bigger bump in 2021.  But I can't find the list.  I don't think $5k per carry is enough.
In 2020 Jonathan Taylor was paid about $8k per carry simply because he was drafted higher.  Ezekiel Elliott got $25k per carry because he was drafted even higher than them.  Those are all rookie contracts.  All three players had between 230 and 250 carries. 
I just don't think draft status should count for that much.  Especially not when it's locked in for 4 years.

---

My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

JR didn't get screwed - he got hurt. 

Happens to dozens of gifted players every year that may have had a very different financial outcome if healthy. 

Unfortunately - it's really bad business for teams to try to find ways to compensate every affordable player who ends up being productive for a time.  The league has their own contingency in place for this, even if it isn't as much as you seem to think they should get. 

Here's the league's performance based pay adjustments for the year 2020:

https://nflpaweb.blob.core.windows.net/w...0d3a106e82

You'll find James Robinson, Adam Gotsis, Tre Herndon and a few other Jags on cheap deals that saw a six figure bump from the league.
(Brock Purdy got $740K from this fund after his 2023 campaign)

Right.  That fund is based on snap count (but WAAHH I thought snap count was hard!).  In 2020 that fund bumped his pay for the year by about $250k to about $1 million dollars. We can assume with 1 accrued year he got a bigger bump in 2021.  But I can't find the list.  I don't think $5k per carry is enough.
In 2020 Jonathan Taylor was paid about $8k per carry simply because he was drafted higher.  Ezekiel Elliott got $25k per carry because he was drafted even higher than them.  Those are all rookie contracts.  All three players had between 230 and 250 carries. 
I just don't think draft status should count for that much.  Especially not when it's locked in for 4 years.

Yeah, I never said anything about snap counts, but whatever.

Life is not fair. 

Opportunities are not evenly distributed. 

Best get after the ones that fall in your path. 1st round, 7th round, UDFA , whatever. Nobody is gonna level the playing field or salary distro for you.

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I’ve seen some really good ideas.

None of them are in this thread.

We're listening.  What are the good ideas?

---

If guys got paid weekly per recognized stats or metrics combined with getting paid a big bonus for winning the super bowl and smaller bonuses for the division crown and playoff wins, it would make things very interesting and even more exciting.  NFLPA would never, though.

If it was a "whichever is more" proposition they might go for it.  It would give the players a chance of earning more with no risk of earning less.

How about not making special exemptions for any position?  You know, kind of like it is?

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Right.  That fund is based on snap count (but WAAHH I thought snap count was hard!).  In 2020 that fund bumped his pay for the year by about $250k to about $1 million dollars. We can assume with 1 accrued year he got a bigger bump in 2021.  But I can't find the list.  I don't think $5k per carry is enough.
In 2020 Jonathan Taylor was paid about $8k per carry simply because he was drafted higher.  Ezekiel Elliott got $25k per carry because he was drafted even higher than them.  Those are all rookie contracts.  All three players had between 230 and 250 carries. 
I just don't think draft status should count for that much.  Especially not when it's locked in for 4 years.

Yeah, I never said anything about snap counts, but whatever.

Life is not fair. 

Opportunities are not evenly distributed. 

Best get after the ones that fall in your path. 1st round, 7th round, UDFA , whatever. Nobody is gonna level the playing field or salary distro for you.

The snap count thing was Mikey. Not you.

But to your point, sure, life is not fair, but that's a pretty dumb reason to say no to any effort to make life a little more fair. A smarter person would say, "your proposal has side effects" or "your proposal won't work as intended." Not "life is unfair". "I hear you that you didn't actually kill that guy, but you have to accept that life is unfair and just stay in jail." No.

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We're listening.  What are the good ideas?

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If it was a "whichever is more" proposition they might go for it.  It would give the players a chance of earning more with no risk of earning less.

How about not making special exemptions for any position?  You know, kind of like it is?

It doesn't have to be special for any one position.  "Rookie and UDFA contracts will pay either a salary based on draft position, or $x per snap, whichever is more"

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

Right.  That fund is based on snap count (but WAAHH I thought snap count was hard!).  In 2020 that fund bumped his pay for the year by about $250k to about $1 million dollars. We can assume with 1 accrued year he got a bigger bump in 2021.  But I can't find the list.  I don't think $5k per carry is enough.
In 2020 Jonathan Taylor was paid about $8k per carry simply because he was drafted higher.  Ezekiel Elliott got $25k per carry because he was drafted even higher than them.  Those are all rookie contracts.  All three players had between 230 and 250 carries. 
I just don't think draft status should count for that much.  Especially not when it's locked in for 4 years.

Yeah, I never said anything about snap counts, but whatever.

Life is not fair. 

Opportunities are not evenly distributed. 

Best get after the ones that fall in your path. 1st round, 7th round, UDFA , whatever. Nobody is gonna level the playing field or salary distro for you.

I think he didn't like that I pointed out lawyas gonna lawya.

This is an established program to redistribute funds for guys outplaying their current deal. If we're proposing to rewrite the system(and contract structuring) to pay players based on snap count or stat counts as a key factor, it's going to be a process.

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How about not making special exemptions for any position?  You know, kind of like it is?

It doesn't have to be special for any one position.  "Rookie and UDFA contracts will pay either a salary based on draft position, or $x per snap, whichever is more"

...isn't that what the supplemental pay that NYC cited is already doing? If you outperform your deal, you get a share of some pooled money if your pre-determined salary is not up to the level you performed? Why are we seeking to reinvent the wheel that's already rolling just fine?

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It doesn't have to be special for any one position.  "Rookie and UDFA contracts will pay either a salary based on draft position, or $x per snap, whichever is more"

...isn't that what the supplemental pay that NYC cited is already doing? If you outperform your deal, you get a share of some pooled money if your pre-determined salary is not up to the level you performed? Why are we seeking to reinvent the wheel that's already rolling just fine?

It is sort-of doing that, but the supplemental payouts are too small since, even after the supplement, Elliot was getting like 5x more per snap than Robinson was. Draft position should matter, but not that much.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

...isn't that what the supplemental pay that NYC cited is already doing? If you outperform your deal, you get a share of some pooled money if your pre-determined salary is not up to the level you performed? Why are we seeking to reinvent the wheel that's already rolling just fine?

It is sort-of doing that, but the supplemental payouts are too small since, even after the supplement, Elliot was getting like 5x more per snap than Robinson was. Draft position should matter, but not that much.

That's one of the things leading you astray.
Draft position matters A LOT! 

Just look at the rookie salary guidelines by draft position. 

[b][b] [/b][/b]1st
$12.1 Million-$38.5 Million 
2nd
$6.3 Million-$9.9 Million
3rd
$5.5 Million-$6 Million 
4th
$4.5 Million-$4.8 Million 
5th
$4.2 Million-$4.4 Million 
6th
$4.1 Million-$4.2 Million 
7th
$4.09 Million-$4.13 Million


You've got rookies drafted 60 spots apart from each other and one gets a 38 million dollar deal while the other gets less than 7 million. 


No idea why you think we need to fix this. It simply isn't broken to begin with. It's the market doing what the market does based on the most simple principles of market fluctuation. 

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It is sort-of doing that, but the supplemental payouts are too small since, even after the supplement, Elliot was getting like 5x more per snap than Robinson was. Draft position should matter, but not that much.

That's one of the things leading you astray.
Draft position matters A LOT! 

Just look at the rookie salary guidelines by draft position. 

[b][b] [/b][/b]1st
$12.1 Million-$38.5 Million 
2nd
$6.3 Million-$9.9 Million
3rd
$5.5 Million-$6 Million 
4th
$4.5 Million-$4.8 Million 
5th
$4.2 Million-$4.4 Million 
6th
$4.1 Million-$4.2 Million 
7th
$4.09 Million-$4.13 Million


You've got rookies drafted 60 spots apart from each other and one gets a 38 million dollar deal while the other gets less than 7 million. 


No idea why you think we need to fix this. It simply isn't broken to begin with. It's the market doing what the market does based on the most simple principles of market fluctuation. 

The rookie table is set by negotiation between NFLPA and NFL.  Neither side brings any future rookies to the table.  Most of NFLPA voters are on their 2nd contract.  

A union negotiation is not a market.  The table was drawn up after the Sam Bradford debacle but the previous system wasn't really a market negotiation either.  The teams, after using their first overall pick, were unable to walk away from that player without totally losing the value of the pick.  When either side is unable to walk away, it is not a free market anymore.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

That's one of the things leading you astray.
Draft position matters A LOT! 

Just look at the rookie salary guidelines by draft position. 

[b][b] [/b][/b]1st
$12.1 Million-$38.5 Million 
2nd
$6.3 Million-$9.9 Million
3rd
$5.5 Million-$6 Million 
4th
$4.5 Million-$4.8 Million 
5th
$4.2 Million-$4.4 Million 
6th
$4.1 Million-$4.2 Million 
7th
$4.09 Million-$4.13 Million


You've got rookies drafted 60 spots apart from each other and one gets a 38 million dollar deal while the other gets less than 7 million. 


No idea why you think we need to fix this. It simply isn't broken to begin with. It's the market doing what the market does based on the most simple principles of market fluctuation. 

The rookie table is set by negotiation between NFLPA and NFL.  Neither side brings any future rookies to the table.  Most of NFLPA voters are on their 2nd contract.  

A union negotiation is not a market.  The table was drawn up after the Sam Bradford debacle but the previous system wasn't really a market negotiation either.  The teams, after using their first overall pick, were unable to walk away from that player without totally losing the value of the pick.  When either side is unable to walk away, it is not a free market anymore.

Wow. 

You have an odd perspective of all this. 

The union negotiation AFFECTS the market. 
Player association members' contract status means very little in that dynamic. 

Of course the market will REFLECT the CBA at times.  It has a direct influence. 
Draft position absolutely matters in salary dispensation. And you will at times see a parallel between the CBA rookie structure and second contracts. It just makes too much sense. 

There is indeed a real market for running backs and it is affected by the CBA, and more importantly it is affected currently by a surplus wherein the supply exceeds demand driving down price. 

Simple. 

You want RBs to get paid more and see more 2nd contracts?  Slow down the production of the product. There are too many available.

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