I am so much less concerned about the o-line now that Trevor's contract is extended.
Before I felt like this was our one year to get the man the protection he deserves.  Now I know we have a few more years to keep trying new players if the ones we have don't work.
Barring injury, the 2024 group will definitely do better than the 2023 group did. 
Regardless they should have drafted a center or guard with one of their 2023 or 2024 picks.  They really need to address the position in 2025.

His contract isn't going to block for him. It should be the #1 concern of every Jaguar fan if we want to succeed. I really don't want to see a situation like Andrew Luck had. Doesn't matter how good a player is, it only takes 1 action to end his career.

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I am so much less concerned about the o-line now that Trevor's contract is extended.
Before I felt like this was our one year to get the man the protection he deserves.  Now I know we have a few more years to keep trying new players if the ones we have don't work.
Barring injury, the 2024 group will definitely do better than the 2023 group did. 
Regardless they should have drafted a center or guard with one of their 2023 or 2024 picks.  They really need to address the position in 2025.

His contract isn't going to block for him. It should be the #1 concern of every Jaguar fan if we want to succeed. I really don't want to see a situation like Andrew Luck had. Doesn't matter how good a player is, it only takes 1 action to end his career.

I think mikesez wants to be on Trevor's "Unforgivable Enemies List." (Right under Urban Meyer.)  

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NYC4jags Wrote:
Can we leave the personal insults behind for a while and get back to some semblance of topic, gents?
Please, and thank you.

I am so much less concerned about the o-line now that Trevor's contract is extended.
Before I felt like this was our one year to get the man the protection he deserves.  Now I know we have a few more years to keep trying new players if the ones we have don't work.
Barring injury, the 2024 group will definitely do better than the 2023 group did. 
Regardless they should have drafted a center or guard with one of their 2023 or 2024 picks.  They really need to address the position in 2025.

His contract isn't going to block for him. It should be the #1 concern of every Jaguar fan if we want to succeed. I really don't want to see a situation like Andrew Luck had. Doesn't matter how good a player is, it only takes 1 action to end his career.

It's still my number 1 concern.
I'm just less concerned about everything.
Trevor's contract extension and the stadium deal hit my fandom like some hydromorphone.
It's great!

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

His contract isn't going to block for him. It should be the #1 concern of every Jaguar fan if we want to succeed. I really don't want to see a situation like Andrew Luck had. Doesn't matter how good a player is, it only takes 1 action to end his career.

It's still my number 1 concern.
I'm just less concerned about everything.
Trevor's contract extension and the stadium deal hit my fandom like some hydromorphone.
It's great!

I'm more worried about the coaching staff's ability to coach up their O-line players than I am the actual players themselves.    We''ve all wanted an upgrade the interior OLINE, but then I think...what if the players don't know their blocking schemes on every single play?    It won't matter if we have the strongest interior LG in the league if the player misses an assignment.

I'm hoping that with repetition, the line will block better.

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The Other Jag Forum: Duval Football Fans.

Brandon Scherff is no longer that dude.   Next season I want him gone.

It's still my number 1 concern.
I'm just less concerned about everything.
Trevor's contract extension and the stadium deal hit my fandom like some hydromorphone.
It's great!

I'm more worried about the coaching staff's ability to coach up their O-line players than I am the actual players themselves.    We''ve all wanted an upgrade the interior OLINE, but then I think...what if the players don't know their blocking schemes on every single play?    It won't matter if we have the strongest interior LG in the league if the player misses an assignment.

I'm hoping that with repetition, the line will block better.

I saw a vlog from Bootleg Football on the Jaguars.  One of their key points is that the Jaguars needed to improve their run offense and defense in 2024.  They mentioned the lack of OL talent, but one of their other key points is that the Jags run game is very limited/predictable.  Essentially that almost all running plays are 'inside zone' runs from very similar formations, and that the coaches weren't very dynamic even if the opposing defense consistently stopped that running play throughout the game.

Link to the vlog

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NYC4jags Wrote:
Can we leave the personal insults behind for a while and get back to some semblance of topic, gents?
Please, and thank you.

I'm more worried about the coaching staff's ability to coach up their O-line players than I am the actual players themselves.    We''ve all wanted an upgrade the interior OLINE, but then I think...what if the players don't know their blocking schemes on every single play?    It won't matter if we have the strongest interior LG in the league if the player misses an assignment.

I'm hoping that with repetition, the line will block better.

I saw a vlog from Bootleg Football on the Jaguars.  One of their key points is that the Jaguars needed to improve their run offense and defense in 2024.  They mentioned the lack of OL talent, but one of their other key points is that the Jags run game is very limited/predictable.  Essentially that almost all running plays are 'inside zone' runs from very similar formations, and that the coaches weren't very dynamic even if the opposing defense consistently stopped that running play throughout the game.

Link to the vlog

I think that might be due to our center not being very good. Kinda hard to keep a strong line when the middle is the weak point. Hopefully thats fixed with Morse. This team had no life before Pederson, I trust he will keep at it until he gets it figured out.

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It's still my number 1 concern.
I'm just less concerned about everything.
Trevor's contract extension and the stadium deal hit my fandom like some hydromorphone.
It's great!

I'm more worried about the coaching staff's ability to coach up their O-line players than I am the actual players themselves.    We''ve all wanted an upgrade the interior OLINE, but then I think...what if the players don't know their blocking schemes on every single play?    It won't matter if we have the strongest interior LG in the league if the player misses an assignment.

I'm hoping that with repetition, the line will block better.

I just never get this.  If you have crappy players how much can they be 'coached up'?

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I'm more worried about the coaching staff's ability to coach up their O-line players than I am the actual players themselves.    We''ve all wanted an upgrade the interior OLINE, but then I think...what if the players don't know their blocking schemes on every single play?    It won't matter if we have the strongest interior LG in the league if the player misses an assignment.

I'm hoping that with repetition, the line will block better.

I just never get this.  If you have crappy players how much can they be 'coached up'?

I have been thinking about this.  I have noticed over the years Crappy players that have been coached up really well have the same attributes:

1. They behave when not in season.
2. They are always on time for meetings and practices.
3. They go out of their way to be as popular with fans as possible.
4. They look really good in their uniforms.
5. When in games they execute all their movements in a confident way while they miss their blocks.
6. When they are knocked to the ground on their backside they get up really, really fast.

Currently there are a few players on our roster that fit the above attributes and have been hanging around on the lineup/practice squad for a number of years. You guys supply your own names. This "backlog" of good ole boys does nothing but interrupt the progression of our team. I believe backups and depth should after a bit push the starter out or be rotated out/traded/cut  giving someone else a chance to do the same.  The drop off between these guys and other options (with proper training) is not very much. That was proven in SPADES last year.

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A new broom always sweeps clean.

I'm more worried about the coaching staff's ability to coach up their O-line players than I am the actual players themselves.    We''ve all wanted an upgrade the interior OLINE, but then I think...what if the players don't know their blocking schemes on every single play?    It won't matter if we have the strongest interior LG in the league if the player misses an assignment.

I'm hoping that with repetition, the line will block better.

I saw a vlog from Bootleg Football on the Jaguars.  One of their key points is that the Jaguars needed to improve their run offense and defense in 2024.  They mentioned the lack of OL talent, but one of their other key points is that the Jags run game is very limited/predictable.  Essentially that almost all running plays are 'inside zone' runs from very similar formations, and that the coaches weren't very dynamic even if the opposing defense consistently stopped that running play throughout the game.

Link to the vlog

I didn't bother to watch to clip but your description is way off target. 

Pederson's ZBS was actually a bit too complex for his line to execute and there has been talk of dumbing it down by removing some of the bells and whistles.  He commented on this in a recent presser. 

The run game was a complete failure in 2024 directly due to the horrible execution from the 5 guys up front. 
Not due to a limited playbook or predictability. As the season wore on and it was obvious how badly the line was underperforming - they may have scrapped certain run calls that they lost all confidence in being able to execute, but that's not the same limited dynamic you asserted. 

Predictability is not a problem in Pederson's offense. He runs lots of different plays out of very similar or same looks that bake in a nice element of unpredictability.

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I saw a vlog from Bootleg Football on the Jaguars.  One of their key points is that the Jaguars needed to improve their run offense and defense in 2024.  They mentioned the lack of OL talent, but one of their other key points is that the Jags run game is very limited/predictable.  Essentially that almost all running plays are 'inside zone' runs from very similar formations, and that the coaches weren't very dynamic even if the opposing defense consistently stopped that running play throughout the game.

Link to the vlog

I didn't bother to watch to clip but your description is way off target. 

Pederson's ZBS was actually a bit too complex for his line to execute and there has been talk of dumbing it down by removing some of the bells and whistles.  He commented on this in a recent presser. 

The run game was a complete failure in 2024 directly due to the horrible execution from the 5 guys up front. 
Not due to a limited playbook or predictability. As the season wore on and it was obvious how badly the line was underperforming - they may have scrapped certain run calls that they lost all confidence in being able to execute, but that's not the same limited dynamic you asserted. 

Predictability is not a problem in Pederson's offense. He runs lots of different plays out of very similar or same looks that bake in a nice element of unpredictability.

Umm...don't shoot the messenger.  I didn't describe or assert anything, I was simply paraphrasing the video that you didn't watch.

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NYC4jags Wrote:
Can we leave the personal insults behind for a while and get back to some semblance of topic, gents?
Please, and thank you.

I didn't bother to watch to clip but your description is way off target. 

Pederson's ZBS was actually a bit too complex for his line to execute and there has been talk of dumbing it down by removing some of the bells and whistles.  He commented on this in a recent presser. 

The run game was a complete failure in 2024 directly due to the horrible execution from the 5 guys up front. 
Not due to a limited playbook or predictability. As the season wore on and it was obvious how badly the line was underperforming - they may have scrapped certain run calls that they lost all confidence in being able to execute, but that's not the same limited dynamic you asserted. 

Predictability is not a problem in Pederson's offense. He runs lots of different plays out of very similar or same looks that bake in a nice element of unpredictability.

Umm...don't shoot the messenger.  I didn't describe or assert anything, I was simply paraphrasing the video that you didn't watch.

I like Brett, but I though he was a little off in this episode, he said that we are the only team on the division that did not got better, and we are pretty much the same as last year, and we could end up as the 3rd team in the division, he even mentions how Tenessee got better and we didn't.

He also said that our window is closed because the texans are here and the colts have a good team, and Balkee didn't do a good job on building the team with good draft picks.

Overall (just like the media in general) he is down on this team after how the team finished last year, although he said that he would not be surprised if this team end up with 12 or 13 wins , it looked like he didn't know how to feel about the jaguars so he was contradicting himself a couple of times in this episode.

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Umm...don't shoot the messenger.  I didn't describe or assert anything, I was simply paraphrasing the video that you didn't watch.

I like Brett, but I though he was a little off in this episode, he said that we are the only team on the division that did not got better, and we are pretty much the same as last year, and we could end up as the 3rd team in the division, he even mentions how Tenessee got better and we didn't.

He also said that our window is closed because the texans are here and the colts have a good team, and Balkee didn't do a good job on building the team with good draft picks.

Overall (just like the media in general) he is down on this team after how the team finished last year, although he said that he would not be surprised if this team end up with 12 or 13 wins , it looked like he didn't know how to feel about the jaguars so he was contradicting himself a couple of times in this episode.

Didn't watch, but Brett sounds like a casual that has no idea what he's talking about.

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I didn't bother to watch to clip but your description is way off target. 

Pederson's ZBS was actually a bit too complex for his line to execute and there has been talk of dumbing it down by removing some of the bells and whistles.  He commented on this in a recent presser. 

The run game was a complete failure in 2024 directly due to the horrible execution from the 5 guys up front. 
Not due to a limited playbook or predictability. As the season wore on and it was obvious how badly the line was underperforming - they may have scrapped certain run calls that they lost all confidence in being able to execute, but that's not the same limited dynamic you asserted. 

Predictability is not a problem in Pederson's offense. He runs lots of different plays out of very similar or same looks that bake in a nice element of unpredictability.

Umm...don't shoot the messenger.  I didn't describe or assert anything, I was simply paraphrasing the video that you didn't watch.

Jerome from Martin: “Look here man…I didn’t shoot the Sheriff.”    *leg shakes

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I'm more worried about the coaching staff's ability to coach up their O-line players than I am the actual players themselves.    We''ve all wanted an upgrade the interior OLINE, but then I think...what if the players don't know their blocking schemes on every single play?    It won't matter if we have the strongest interior LG in the league if the player misses an assignment.

I'm hoping that with repetition, the line will block better.

I just never get this.  If you have crappy players how much can they be 'coached up'?

I think the implication is that the players are graded somewhere above crappy. If guys are decent, you'd expect decent play with average coaching. if guys are poor, you'd expect poor play with average (or worse) coaching.

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I just never get this.  If you have crappy players how much can they be 'coached up'?

I have been thinking about this.  I have noticed over the years Crappy players that have been coached up really well have the same attributes:

1. They behave when not in season.
2. They are always on time for meetings and practices.
3. They go out of their way to be as popular with fans as possible.
4. They look really good in their uniforms.
5. When in games they execute all their movements in a confident way while they miss their blocks.
6. When they are knocked to the ground on their backside they get up really, really fast.

Currently there are a few players on our roster that fit the above attributes and have been hanging around on the lineup/practice squad for a number of years. You guys supply your own names. This "backlog" of good ole boys does nothing but interrupt the progression of our team. I believe backups and depth should after a bit push the starter out or be rotated out/traded/cut  giving someone else a chance to do the same.  The drop off between these guys and other options (with proper training) is not very much. That was proven in SPADES last year.

You can't make the statement you make before the bolded and then make the bolded. If you've seen em and are calling them on the carpet, go ahead and call them out.

With 32 franchises and recently expanded PS/eligibility, there's a lot more room for stagnation on a roster. I am not excusing things, but there is some merit to keeping 'serviceable' on the roster and ready in case you need to call someone in a hurry. You know what they bring to the table, for better or for worse. The guy you signed two weeks ago? No idea of his durability, or how well he knows the playbook, or how he handles pressure. You have 31 other teams that are also digging around trying to find guys to push starters and depth off the rosters.

Which backups were proving that the drop off from them to the starter wasn't very much? Which PS call-ups made us more confident if a starter went down? The backend of a roster is where a LOT of settling will happen - you either have guys that you know are going to put in the work, they do the things that don't show up on a stat sheet, or they do the job for less than another guy who similarly isn't going to see the field in an ideal season.

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I have been thinking about this.  I have noticed over the years Crappy players that have been coached up really well have the same attributes:

1. They behave when not in season.
2. They are always on time for meetings and practices.
3. They go out of their way to be as popular with fans as possible.
4. They look really good in their uniforms.
5. When in games they execute all their movements in a confident way while they miss their blocks.
6. When they are knocked to the ground on their backside they get up really, really fast.

Currently there are a few players on our roster that fit the above attributes and have been hanging around on the lineup/practice squad for a number of years. You guys supply your own names. This "backlog" of good ole boys does nothing but interrupt the progression of our team. I believe backups and depth should after a bit push the starter out or be rotated out/traded/cut  giving someone else a chance to do the same.  The drop off between these guys and other options (with proper training) is not very much. That was proven in SPADES last year.

You can't make the statement you make before the bolded and then make the bolded. If you've seen em and are calling them on the carpet, go ahead and call them out.

With 32 franchises and recently expanded PS/eligibility, there's a lot more room for stagnation on a roster. I am not excusing things, but there is some merit to keeping 'serviceable' on the roster and ready in case you need to call someone in a hurry. You know what they bring to the table, for better or for worse. The guy you signed two weeks ago? No idea of his durability, or how well he knows the playbook, or how he handles pressure. You have 31 other teams that are also digging around trying to find guys to push starters and depth off the rosters.

Which backups were proving that the drop off from them to the starter wasn't very much? Which PS call-ups made us more confident if a starter went down? The backend of a roster is where a LOT of settling will happen - you either have guys that you know are going to put in the work, they do the things that don't show up on a stat sheet, or they do the job for less than another guy who similarly isn't going to see the field in an ideal season.

Sure I can. We all watched last year and saw the results, at times it was comical, other times just sad. Can you name one backup that was actually average in relief? At the end of the season I was hoping in the off season they would just keep our 3 tackles and find seven more linemen to give a chance. (we kept 10 last year) There are many posts about our depth on the line and I can't remember any that were complimentary of our depth guys. Maybe there was as I have been wrong before.  I really do not have anything against these guys and hope they can perform. Just tired of seeing the same backups come in and miss the same blocks the same way over and over while our running backs get hit 2 yards behind the line.

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A new broom always sweeps clean.

You can't make the statement you make before the bolded and then make the bolded. If you've seen em and are calling them on the carpet, go ahead and call them out.

With 32 franchises and recently expanded PS/eligibility, there's a lot more room for stagnation on a roster. I am not excusing things, but there is some merit to keeping 'serviceable' on the roster and ready in case you need to call someone in a hurry. You know what they bring to the table, for better or for worse. The guy you signed two weeks ago? No idea of his durability, or how well he knows the playbook, or how he handles pressure. You have 31 other teams that are also digging around trying to find guys to push starters and depth off the rosters.

Which backups were proving that the drop off from them to the starter wasn't very much? Which PS call-ups made us more confident if a starter went down? The backend of a roster is where a LOT of settling will happen - you either have guys that you know are going to put in the work, they do the things that don't show up on a stat sheet, or they do the job for less than another guy who similarly isn't going to see the field in an ideal season.

Sure I can. We all watched last year and saw the results, at times it was comical, other times just sad. Can you name one backup that was actually average in relief? At the end of the season I was hoping in the off season they would just keep our 3 tackles and find seven more linemen to give a chance. (we kept 10 last year) There are many posts about our depth on the line and I can't remember any that were complimentary of our depth guys. Maybe there was as I have been wrong before.  I really do not have anything against these guys and hope they can perform. Just tired of seeing the same backups come in and miss the same blocks the same way over and over while our running backs get hit 2 yards behind the line.

This was a symptom of the starters. We were at "full health" in the last game of the season, which included getting stuffed multiple times in goal-to-go situations.

I guess my criticism is more what you expect to change if we flush everyone and bring in a whole heap of unproven guys. Keep in mind that 31 other teams have already had their pick from the talent pool as well. Do you figure that our hit rate of finding promising prospects is going to be 100%? 75? 50? Once you get to that stage, you're back in the same dilemma, you got a steaming pile of dook on the bench if your starting guy gets hurt.

"serviceable" is the norm for the backups. We replaced one starter (which sounds more like the one you and everybody else had problems with) and drafted or signed 4 other guys this offseason. Assuming we keep 9 OL and even 2 of those backups make the week 1 roster, we've effectively replaced 50% of the allegedly problematic backups. It's early in the offseason. Give it time, I have a feeling we'll see some new faces on the depth chart.

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Sure I can. We all watched last year and saw the results, at times it was comical, other times just sad. Can you name one backup that was actually average in relief? At the end of the season I was hoping in the off season they would just keep our 3 tackles and find seven more linemen to give a chance. (we kept 10 last year) There are many posts about our depth on the line and I can't remember any that were complimentary of our depth guys. Maybe there was as I have been wrong before.  I really do not have anything against these guys and hope they can perform. Just tired of seeing the same backups come in and miss the same blocks the same way over and over while our running backs get hit 2 yards behind the line.

This was a symptom of the starters. We were at "full health" in the last game of the season, which included getting stuffed multiple times in goal-to-go situations.

I guess my criticism is more what you expect to change if we flush everyone and bring in a whole heap of unproven guys. Keep in mind that 31 other teams have already had their pick from the talent pool as well. Do you figure that our hit rate of finding promising prospects is going to be 100%? 75? 50? Once you get to that stage, you're back in the same dilemma, you got a steaming pile of dook on the bench if your starting guy gets hurt.

"serviceable" is the norm for the backups. We replaced one starter (which sounds more like the one you and everybody else had problems with) and drafted or signed 4 other guys this offseason. Assuming we keep 9 OL and even 2 of those backups make the week 1 roster, we've effectively replaced 50% of the allegedly problematic backups. It's early in the offseason. Give it time, I have a feeling we'll see some new faces on the depth chart.

Yea, I liked they have brought in Morse.  Add him to Cam, Ezra, Scherff and Harrison the starting line has a chance to be improved.  Now can they stay healthy? In 2022 we had good fortune with injuries 2023 we did not. This exposed our depth issues.  Shatley had a good season in 2022. That cannot be said for 2023. I know he had to be recovering from that afib issue he had in camp last year, really hope he is good to go. Behind this we have Fortner, Tugboat and our new rookie, Foster, they should be ok but who knows.  That accounts for 10 of the 15 linemen we have under contract. The remaining 6 are 26-27 year old journeyman practice squad players, one is already on IR. They have been with us 2+ years. We should know what we have in them by now. I know we need to have a vet or two stashed there. My issue is if after a few year if they cannot make the team as at least a backup why not rotate them out and try to get someone to develop that maybe can. Sure the hit rate will be low, but is better than what is occurring now. As it is now they will be on our practice squad once again.  Just an opinion....

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A new broom always sweeps clean.

MORSE

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MORSE

Fixed it. It was a hardware issue, loose nut at the keyboard.

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A new broom always sweeps clean.