This was a symptom of the starters. We were at "full health" in the last game of the season, which included getting stuffed multiple times in goal-to-go situations.

I guess my criticism is more what you expect to change if we flush everyone and bring in a whole heap of unproven guys. Keep in mind that 31 other teams have already had their pick from the talent pool as well. Do you figure that our hit rate of finding promising prospects is going to be 100%? 75? 50? Once you get to that stage, you're back in the same dilemma, you got a steaming pile of dook on the bench if your starting guy gets hurt.

"serviceable" is the norm for the backups. We replaced one starter (which sounds more like the one you and everybody else had problems with) and drafted or signed 4 other guys this offseason. Assuming we keep 9 OL and even 2 of those backups make the week 1 roster, we've effectively replaced 50% of the allegedly problematic backups. It's early in the offseason. Give it time, I have a feeling we'll see some new faces on the depth chart.

Yea, I liked they have brought in Morse.  Add him to Cam, Ezra, Scherff and Harrison the starting line has a chance to be improved.  Now can they stay healthy? In 2022 we had good fortune with injuries 2023 we did not. This exposed our depth issues.  Shatley had a good season in 2022. That cannot be said for 2023. I know he had to be recovering from that afib issue he had in camp last year, really hope he is good to go. Behind this we have Fortner, Tugboat and our new rookie, Foster, they should be ok but who knows.  That accounts for 10 of the 15 linemen we have under contract. The remaining 6 are 26-27 year old journeyman practice squad players, one is already on IR. They have been with us 2+ years. We should know what we have in them by now. I know we need to have a vet or two stashed there. My issue is if after a few year if they cannot make the team as at least a backup why not rotate them out and try to get someone to develop that maybe can. Sure the hit rate will be low, but is better than what is occurring now. As it is now they will be on our practice squad once again.  Just an opinion....

I don't disagree with your take. This team in general has needed alot of upgrades the last few years. Typically too many to fill in an offseason. Add in all the misses in the draft and I think this is how a team would look. Getting more out of some of the higher draft picks would definitely free up the resources to focus on building a good line. Kinda feels like they are trying to patchwork it for the time being. 

For me personally, the oline is the most important group. If we want Trevor to succeed, he needs to be upright and not running for his life. Hes showed he has what it takes to will this team to wins, that should be the focus.

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Yea, I liked they have brought in Morse.  Add him to Cam, Ezra, Scherff and Harrison the starting line has a chance to be improved.  Now can they stay healthy? In 2022 we had good fortune with injuries 2023 we did not. This exposed our depth issues.  Shatley had a good season in 2022. That cannot be said for 2023. I know he had to be recovering from that afib issue he had in camp last year, really hope he is good to go. Behind this we have Fortner, Tugboat and our new rookie, Foster, they should be ok but who knows.  That accounts for 10 of the 15 linemen we have under contract. The remaining 6 are 26-27 year old journeyman practice squad players, one is already on IR. They have been with us 2+ years. We should know what we have in them by now. I know we need to have a vet or two stashed there. My issue is if after a few year if they cannot make the team as at least a backup why not rotate them out and try to get someone to develop that maybe can. Sure the hit rate will be low, but is better than what is occurring now. As it is now they will be on our practice squad once again.  Just an opinion....

I don't disagree with your take. This team in general has needed alot of upgrades the last few years. Typically too many to fill in an offseason. Add in all the misses in the draft and I think this is how a team would look. Getting more out of some of the higher draft picks would definitely free up the resources to focus on building a good line. Kinda feels like they are trying to patchwork it for the time being. 

For me personally, the oline is the most important group. If we want Trevor to succeed, he needs to be upright and not running for his life. Hes showed he has what it takes to will this team to wins, that should be the focus.

I would add, just as important as keeping Trevor upright, if we want Trevor to succeed, we need to be able to run for a first down on 3rd and 2, or run for a touchdown when it's 1st and goal on the 4-yard line.  A good running game is a quarterback's best friend.  A good running game keeps the chains moving, gets first downs, gets touchdowns in the red zone, and takes a whole lot of pressure off the quarterback.  A good running game keeps the offense out of 2nd and 12, or 3rd and 12.  A good running game brings the linebackers and safeties forward to stop the run, allowing more room for the passing attack.  

Last year we had 120 running plays that went for zero or negative yardage.  That crippled our offense as much as anything.

Trevor fumbled way too many times last year, for sure.  But I have this image in my mind of Trevor standing in the pocket waiting, waiting, desperate to get something going because once again it's 3rd and long, and then of course here comes a strip sack which is his fault for sure, but it wouldn't happen if it was 3rd and 2 instead of 3rd and 12.

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My biggest concern this season is something happening to Morse. Hopefully they continue to give Hodges looks at center and he can be a viable backup there at the very least. If Morse goes down it's a possibility so will our season.

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My biggest concern this season is something happening to Morse.  Hopefully they continue to give Hodges looks at center and he can be a viable backup there at the very least. If Morse goes down it's a possibility so will our season.

Training camp and preseason will reveal a lot of this. I don't think Baalke and Co. will rest on just Morse as the primary with incompetent back-up's behind him. Fortner should have a fire lit under his [BLEEP] though at this point. 

Once rosters start trimming down across the league though I wouldn't be surprised if Baalke makes his annual trade for an offensive lineman that can help out. I think he's done it every year now if you factor in Hance, Cleveland and potentially this summer.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

MORSE

You coulda just said -- --- .-. ... .

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My biggest concern this season is something happening to Morse.  Hopefully they continue to give Hodges looks at center and he can be a viable backup there at the very least. If Morse goes down it's a possibility so will our season.

Training camp and preseason will reveal a lot of this. I don't think Baalke and Co. will rest on just Morse as the primary with incompetent back-up's behind him. Fortner should have a fire lit under his [BLEEP] though at this point. 

Once rosters start trimming down across the league though I wouldn't be surprised if Baalke makes his annual trade for an offensive lineman that can help out. I think he's done it every year now if you factor in Hance, Cleveland and potentially this summer.

If Fortner is not good enough to be a backup, he shouldn't be on the team.

---

Yea, I liked they have brought in Morse.  Add him to Cam, Ezra, Scherff and Harrison the starting line has a chance to be improved.  Now can they stay healthy? In 2022 we had good fortune with injuries 2023 we did not. This exposed our depth issues.  Shatley had a good season in 2022. That cannot be said for 2023. I know he had to be recovering from that afib issue he had in camp last year, really hope he is good to go. Behind this we have Fortner, Tugboat and our new rookie, Foster, they should be ok but who knows.  That accounts for 10 of the 15 linemen we have under contract. The remaining 6 are 26-27 year old journeyman practice squad players, one is already on IR. They have been with us 2+ years. We should know what we have in them by now. I know we need to have a vet or two stashed there. My issue is if after a few year if they cannot make the team as at least a backup why not rotate them out and try to get someone to develop that maybe can. Sure the hit rate will be low, but is better than what is occurring now. As it is now they will be on our practice squad once again.  Just an opinion....

I don't disagree with your take. This team in general has needed alot of upgrades the last few years. Typically too many to fill in an offseason. Add in all the misses in the draft and I think this is how a team would look. Getting more out of some of the higher draft picks would definitely free up the resources to focus on building a good line. Kinda feels like they are trying to patchwork it for the time being. 

For me personally, the oline is the most important group. If we want Trevor to succeed, he needs to be upright and not running for his life. Hes showed he has what it takes to will this team to wins, that should be the focus.

Biggest issue has been darfting guys that are good enough to stick around. We've spent so much time rebuilding the starting 5 that we can't focus on seeking the developmental guys. I think this past offseason showed that the tide is shifting, guys like Foster and Steven Jones are not going to be expected to start on day one, so they have time to grow and develop before thrown into the mix. We'll have time to evaluate their prospect, focus training to meet their skills, and hopefully see results of our effort.

Outside of Cam, who was the last OL that we drafted that ended up getting a second deal? Linder? I could be wrong, but there haven't been many.

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Training camp and preseason will reveal a lot of this. I don't think Baalke and Co. will rest on just Morse as the primary with incompetent back-up's behind him. Fortner should have a fire lit under his [BLEEP] though at this point. 

Once rosters start trimming down across the league though I wouldn't be surprised if Baalke makes his annual trade for an offensive lineman that can help out. I think he's done it every year now if you factor in Hance, Cleveland and potentially this summer.

If Fortner is not good enough to be a backup, he shouldn't be on the team.

Agreed. It'll be interesting if Cooper pushes him out of that back-up role. I still have "some" hope for Fortner. As we all should. He was a 3rd RD investment. I still feel his most natural position is RG though. He was a 5th year senior at Kentucky I believe and he only played the Center position his final year. 

Still very much a greenhorn there when he entered the NFL. Good chance he gets work in behind Scherff this summer and preseason at RG. This then makes him and Hodges potentially interchangeable when and if needed in swing positions. I actually like what this competition for the whole group looks like.

You have Walker Little duking it out with Javon Foster more than likely as the primary swing tackle. You'll now have Fortner and Hodges duking it out with primary swing Center & Guard duties. 

Was wrong earlier about Hance. We didn't trade for him. I was thinking of Van Lanen I think out of Green Bay instead. Either way, historically, Baalke will try and patch up a weakness via trade or free agency before or mid regular season. He has a tendency to do this.

---

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

If Fortner is not good enough to be a backup, he shouldn't be on the team.

Agreed. It'll be interesting if Cooper pushes him out of that back-up role. I still have "some" hope for Fortner. As we all should. He was a 3rd RD investment. I still feel his most natural position is RG though. He was a 5th year senior at Kentucky I believe and he only played the Center position his final year. 

Still very much a greenhorn there when he entered the NFL. Good chance he gets work in behind Scherff this summer and preseason at RG. This then makes him and Hodges potentially interchangeable when and if needed in swing positions. I actually like what this competition for the whole group looks like.

You have Walker Little duking it out with Javon Foster more than likely as the primary swing tackle. You'll now have Fortner and Hodges duking it out with primary swing Center & Guard duties. 

Was wrong earlier about Hance. We didn't trade for him. I was thinking of Van Lanen I think out of Green Bay instead. Either way, historically, Baalke will try and patch up a weakness via trade or free agency before or mid regular season. He has a tendency to do this.

This camp is going to be a good one bc of all the camp battles coming up along that offensive line. Fortner needs some looks at RG for sure, just to see what we have there. 

I got big hopes for tug. He can boost that running game and be useful down on the goal line as a 3rd. I’m lowkey hoping he forces his way into the starting lineup.

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If Fortner is not good enough to be a backup, he shouldn't be on the team.

Agreed. It'll be interesting if Cooper pushes him out of that back-up role. I still have "some" hope for Fortner. As we all should. He was a 3rd RD investment. I still feel his most natural position is RG though. He was a 5th year senior at Kentucky I believe and he only played the Center position his final year. 

Still very much a greenhorn there when he entered the NFL. Good chance he gets work in behind Scherff this summer and preseason at RG. This then makes him and Hodges potentially interchangeable when and if needed in swing positions. I actually like what this competition for the whole group looks like.

You have Walker Little duking it out with Javon Foster more than likely as the primary swing tackle. You'll now have Fortner and Hodges duking it out with primary swing Center & Guard duties. 

Was wrong earlier about Hance. We didn't trade for him. I was thinking of Van Lanen I think out of Green Bay instead. Either way, historically, Baalke will try and patch up a weakness via trade or free agency before or mid regular season. He has a tendency to do this.

Last minute August OL additions going back to 2021 include:

McDermott
Traore
Daryl Williams (decent backup center IMO) 
Van Lanen 
James Murray
Blake Hance


And this year we did see the addition of a G/C in June named Jack Anderson - a 7th round pick in 2021

I'd bank on a camp cut addition to come along via waiver wire at the least.

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Agreed. It'll be interesting if Cooper pushes him out of that back-up role. I still have "some" hope for Fortner. As we all should. He was a 3rd RD investment. I still feel his most natural position is RG though. He was a 5th year senior at Kentucky I believe and he only played the Center position his final year. 

Still very much a greenhorn there when he entered the NFL. Good chance he gets work in behind Scherff this summer and preseason at RG. This then makes him and Hodges potentially interchangeable when and if needed in swing positions. I actually like what this competition for the whole group looks like.

You have Walker Little duking it out with Javon Foster more than likely as the primary swing tackle. You'll now have Fortner and Hodges duking it out with primary swing Center & Guard duties. 

Was wrong earlier about Hance. We didn't trade for him. I was thinking of Van Lanen I think out of Green Bay instead. Either way, historically, Baalke will try and patch up a weakness via trade or free agency before or mid regular season. He has a tendency to do this.

Last minute August OL additions going back to 2021 include:

McDermott
Traore
Daryl Williams (decent backup center IMO) 
Van Lanen 
James Murray
Blake Hance


And this year we did see the addition of a G/C in June named Jack Anderson - a 7th round pick in 2021

I'd bank on a camp cut addition to come along via waiver wire at the least.

I sure hope so. Last year when we did have the need the backup/practice squad was a flaming dumpster fire.  (it was blocking dummy level)  While I know these guys are long shots we should at least give a couple new faces a chance. 

Who knows maybe one or two of them will take a step forward.

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A new broom always sweeps clean.

Connor Williams signed a $3 million deal with Seattle with the chance to make $6 million for 1 season. Why weren't the Jaguars in on this? With the interior offensive line a big question-mark entering this season, I'm not sure why they didn't take a chance on this 27 year old who is recovering well from an ACL injury. I just hope Cleveland and Scherff stay healthy so the team doesn't regret passing on Williams.

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Connor Williams signed a $3 million deal with Seattle with the chance to make $6 million for 1 season. Why weren't the Jaguars in on this? With the interior offensive line a big question-mark entering this season, I'm not sure why they didn't take a chance on this 27 year old who is recovering well from an ACL injury. I just hope Cleveland and Scherff stay healthy so the team doesn't regret passing on Williams.

Fair point. Seems like a Baalke guy to begin with. Baalke's balls tingle anytime he hears his favorite three little phrase. A.C.L.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Connor Williams signed a $3 million deal with Seattle with the chance to make $6 million for 1 season. Why weren't the Jaguars in on this? With the interior offensive line a big question-mark entering this season, I'm not sure why they didn't take a chance on this 27 year old who is recovering well from an ACL injury. I just hope Cleveland and Scherff stay healthy so the team doesn't regret passing on Williams.

Isn't this the biggest gripe about Baalke? Now we're on him for not going after damaged goods?

It's early, I confuse easily.

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Connor Williams signed a $3 million deal with Seattle with the chance to make $6 million for 1 season. Why weren't the Jaguars in on this? With the interior offensive line a big question-mark entering this season, I'm not sure why they didn't take a chance on this 27 year old who is recovering well from an ACL injury. I just hope Cleveland and Scherff stay healthy so the team doesn't regret passing on Williams.

Isn't this the biggest gripe about Baalke? Now we're on him for not going after damaged goods?

It's early, I confuse easily.

It's an odd coincidence about Baalke. In the case of Connor Williams, the fact that he was still available this late makes me think there's something off in his medical.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

I don't disagree with your take. This team in general has needed alot of upgrades the last few years. Typically too many to fill in an offseason. Add in all the misses in the draft and I think this is how a team would look. Getting more out of some of the higher draft picks would definitely free up the resources to focus on building a good line. Kinda feels like they are trying to patchwork it for the time being. 

For me personally, the oline is the most important group. If we want Trevor to succeed, he needs to be upright and not running for his life. Hes showed he has what it takes to will this team to wins, that should be the focus.

Biggest issue has been darfting guys that are good enough to stick around. We've spent so much time rebuilding the starting 5 that we can't focus on seeking the developmental guys. I think this past offseason showed that the tide is shifting, guys like Foster and Steven Jones are not going to be expected to start on day one, so they have time to grow and develop before thrown into the mix. We'll have time to evaluate their prospect, focus training to meet their skills, and hopefully see results of our effort.

Outside of Cam, who was the last OL that we drafted that ended up getting a second deal? Linder? I could be wrong, but there haven't been many.

This is a great take Mikey and we have Anton, Fortner, Tugboat, Little, Foster and Jones on rookie contracts. This may be the best young developmental talent that we have ever had in our history. I personally think that Little and Anton could both play LT, Foster should be swing tackle,Fortner and Tugboat backup guard this year then competes for starting RG next year, Jones I would expect to be PS this year then complete for 53 next year. This unit should be addressed nearly every year due to the physical nature of the position and the amount of players in the unit.

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Respect the game.  Play with a sense of urgency. 


1.)  Take care of the ball.  Win the turnover battle.

2.)  It's all about 3rd down.  Win on 3rd down to win the game.

3.) Playmakers make plays.  The only reason that you put your uniform on is to make plays. In order to EARN your paycheck, you must make plays.  

Learn from the great collapse of 2023.  

Isn't this the biggest gripe about Baalke? Now we're on him for not going after damaged goods?

It's early, I confuse easily.

It's an odd coincidence about Baalke. In the case of Connor Williams, the fact that he was still available this late makes me think there's something off in his medical.

nah, it's gotta be incompetence.

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Biggest issue has been darfting guys that are good enough to stick around. We've spent so much time rebuilding the starting 5 that we can't focus on seeking the developmental guys. I think this past offseason showed that the tide is shifting, guys like Foster and Steven Jones are not going to be expected to start on day one, so they have time to grow and develop before thrown into the mix. We'll have time to evaluate their prospect, focus training to meet their skills, and hopefully see results of our effort.

Outside of Cam, who was the last OL that we drafted that ended up getting a second deal? Linder? I could be wrong, but there haven't been many.

This is a great take Mikey and we have Anton, Fortner, Tugboat, Little, Foster and Jones on rookie contracts. This may be the best young developmental talent that we have ever had in our history. I personally think that Little and Anton could both play LT, Foster should be swing tackle,Fortner and  Tugboat backup guard this year then competes for starting RG next year, Jones I would expect to be PS this year then complete for 53 next year. This unit should be addressed nearly every year due to the physical nature of the position and the amount of players in the unit.

This should be in flashing neon letters throughout the front office. In school we would start the day with the Pledge of Allegiance, the FO needs to start the day reciting this mantra.

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I wonder how Brandon Linder is feeling right now? Interior oline was the biggest concern last year and it still is. Even if they like the starting 3 what's the odds of all 3 staying healthy?

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I wonder how Brandon Linder is feeling right now?  Interior oline was the biggest concern last year and it still is.  Even if they like the starting 3 what's the odds of all 3 staying healthy?

Linder? He's too lean to play football now. Last time I saw him was via Instagram. He had posted a picture of himself on a boat with a nice redfish he had caught I believe. He's probably in his low to mid 220's if I had to guess.

I also think the odds are slim to none that all three stay healthy. Which is why many of us for the past two years have been calling for more adequate draft capital to be invested at the various positions.

We'll see what happens. It's concerning though. It's just ironic, that, the most durable player we had on the offensive line the last two years was also the worst performer in Fortner. Probably because he was so awful he couldn't physically get himself involved too much.

Built like Tarzan. Plays like Jane. Telling you now though, if we don't take a LT or RG next year within the first three rounds there's some serious [BLEEP] issues with this front office. The salary cap would also make you feel it should lean this way. You have Lawrence, you have a pair of newly gained receivers.

We need to start restocking the offensive line with young and talented players. Robinson should be gone. Scherff and Morse are pushing 10+ years of service. Not convinced some of the guys we have on the roster today are starters next year.

---

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

I wonder how Brandon Linder is feeling right now?  Interior oline was the biggest concern last year and it still is.  Even if they like the starting 3 what's the odds of all 3 staying healthy?

Linder? He's too lean to play football now. Last time I saw him was via Instagram. He had posted a picture of himself on a boat with a nice redfish he had caught I believe. He's probably in his low to mid 220's if I had to guess.

I also think the odds are slim to none that all three stay healthy. Which is why many of us for the past two years have been calling for more adequate draft capital to be invested at the various positions.

We'll see what happens. It's concerning though. It's just ironic, that, the most durable player we had on the offensive line the last two years was also the worst performer in Fortner. Probably because he was so awful he couldn't physically get himself involved too much.

Built like Tarzan. Plays like Jane. Telling you now though, if we don't take a LT or RG next year within the first three rounds there's some serious [BLEEP] issues with this front office. The salary cap would also make you feel it should lean this way. You have Lawrence, you have a pair of newly gained receivers.

We need to start restocking the offensive line with young and talented players. Robinson should be gone. Scherff and Morse are pushing 10+ years of service. Not convinced some of the guys we have on the roster today are starters next year.

Harrison is going to flip to the left, Javon will be the right tackle, we'll need to draft a right guard (again) since we didn't take on this year. Both Cam and Little will be gone, Scherff might play one more. We'll also need to get a center to replace Morse in the next couple years.

For 2025 it will likely be Harrison - Cleveland - Morse - Scherff - Foster

Heck, it might be that by November.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato