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Trevor Lawrence: Franchise QB (TL Discussion, Merged Threads)
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(09-09-2024, 10:05 AM)Caldrac Wrote:(09-09-2024, 09:15 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: https://twitter.com/mikerenner_/status/1...7041119741 How many pass plays were called in the second half? I continue to see the QB change the call at the line, so how many times did the play called actually get run? Is that a problem? How do you hold Lawrence or Engram or Kirk "accountable"? Harrison got beat for sacks, do you want to run Van Lanen out there instead? The things you say are great platitudes, but how do you actual do it in a meaningful way? That's why criticism from us bleacher dwellers is just hot air, we don't know what's wrong, who's responsible, and what to do about it, but boy do we have very strong opinions about it! Edit: I also look at that list of QBs and pass attempts and can't help but notice the Jags had the largest lead of any of them except for Dak. We lost this game on momentum, nothing more. That's an issue, but it's not like Lawrence not throwing the ball is why they lost. It's because they didn't finish. Fortunately it's week 1 and not a division game, no need to hit up the Modis just yet. “An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato
We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today! (09-09-2024, 10:13 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote:Come on now. There would be no message board if we couldn't at least have conversations about the plays we are watching.(09-09-2024, 10:05 AM)Caldrac Wrote: Agreed. 21 pass attempts. 12 completions, 3 dropped 3rd down conversions, 3 sacks surrendered, 1 sack that torpedo their opening drive and then back-to-back sacks that came back full circle to finish their day off for good.
09-09-2024, 10:28 AM
(This post was last modified: 09-09-2024, 10:31 AM by Caldrac. Edited 3 times in total.)
(09-09-2024, 10:13 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote:(09-09-2024, 10:05 AM)Caldrac Wrote: Agreed. 21 pass attempts. 12 completions, 3 dropped 3rd down conversions, 3 sacks surrendered, 1 sack that torpedo their opening drive and then back-to-back sacks that came back full circle to finish their day off for good. It's hard to say. It's going to be speculative at best. It's also going to fall back on what Lawrence, Pederson and Press say openly. Which we'll probably never know the truth. As far as accountability with Engram and Kirk? Maybe you specifically call different plays with different personnel to send a message to them. Give Strange those opportunities. Give Washington those opportunities. At the end of the day. All I know is this. The past eight games have been dog [BLEEP]. One win against a dog [BLEEP] franchise that gave up 40 points yesterday with a dog [BLEEP] owner. There's nothing to be proud about here, there's no in between here for me. I am not going to pull positives anymore out of losses or look for moral victories. My concern, is that, we're seeing the same miscues, mistakes and ineptitude rear it's ugly head with this coaching staff and personnel and at some point, the excuses need to stop and the results need to show up, whether that's from the staff or personnel, or, likely both, something has to give. Khan himself has openly stated what the expectations are, even if it was woefully off the mark in regards to this being the greatest team ever assembled in franchise history. He had a point. So, again, why is it that those other teams that threw blockbuster contract's at their Quarterback's are getting a [BLEEP] of passing attempts and ours didn't yesterday? At what point do they let this kid really open it up? It was working in the first half. That's what's causing everybody to scratch their heads. Ultimately, just looking at the splits through Pro Football Reference. He had 14 pass attempts in the 1st half. 7 pass attempts in the 2nd half. While leading, he had 19 pass attempts. With the game tied at 17-17, he had 2 attempts. That's all he had. So, I don't know. Speculation I guess. But, again, does 21 pass attempts seem like enough for a QB that you're paying elite money towards and expecting elite play out of? Even if he changed the passing opportunity to a run play, maybe, two, three times? Is 23 pass attempts enough to justify the QB pay? ![]() "What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."
(09-09-2024, 10:19 AM)Cleatwood Wrote:(09-09-2024, 10:13 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: How many pass plays were called in the second half? I continue to see the QB change the call at the line, so how many times did the play called actually get run? Is that a problem? How do you hold Lawrence or Engram or Kirk "accountable"? Harrison got beat for sacks, do you want to run Van Lanen out there instead? The things you say are great platitudes, but how do you actual do it in a meaningful way? That's why criticism from us bleacher dwellers is just hot air, we don't know what's wrong, who's responsible, and what to do about it, but boy do we have very strong opinions about it!Come on now. There would be no message board if we couldn't at least have conversations about the plays we are watching. Of course you're right. I just inject some alternative thoughts into this maelstrom of negativity to remind folks that this is supposed to be fun and whether or not the Jaguars lose, none of us are in danger of losing our jobs over it. “An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato
(09-09-2024, 10:13 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote:I'm not sure there's much time to change plays as it seems to take forever for this team to break the huddle and get up to the line.(09-09-2024, 10:05 AM)Caldrac Wrote: Agreed. 21 pass attempts. 12 completions, 3 dropped 3rd down conversions, 3 sacks surrendered, 1 sack that torpedo their opening drive and then back-to-back sacks that came back full circle to finish their day off for good. We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today!
(09-09-2024, 10:28 AM)Caldrac Wrote:(09-09-2024, 10:13 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: How many pass plays were called in the second half? I continue to see the QB change the call at the line, so how many times did the play called actually get run? Is that a problem? How do you hold Lawrence or Engram or Kirk "accountable"? Harrison got beat for sacks, do you want to run Van Lanen out there instead? The things you say are great platitudes, but how do you actual do it in a meaningful way? That's why criticism from us bleacher dwellers is just hot air, we don't know what's wrong, who's responsible, and what to do about it, but boy do we have very strong opinions about it! And that's going to ruin your enjoyment of the game itself. The NFL is built so that teams lose, and lose regularly. It's a tough game of inches and yesterday we lost because of the 36 of them between ETN's fumble and the goal line. Lawrence played a good first half and had them in position to take a 3 score lead in the second half, so yes, 21 attempts should've been plenty of attempts for them to win. We had a 14 point swing in 30 seconds yesterday and they couldn't recover from it. Tough loss against a good team, it happens. I'm not happy about it but it's week 1, you need to relax or you'll have outrage fatigue by mid-season. “An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato
09-09-2024, 11:55 AM
(This post was last modified: 09-09-2024, 11:56 AM by Cleatwood. Edited 1 time in total.)
(09-08-2024, 09:50 PM)SuperJville Wrote:(09-08-2024, 09:32 PM)Look Eric1 Wrote: This is the final sack. Will likely have to wait until the All-22 is released to see the others (and a better view) but for the people saying Trevor needs to be better and can't take these sacks.. https://twitter.com/acosta32_jp/status/1...4672667768 (09-09-2024, 11:55 AM)Cleatwood Wrote:(09-08-2024, 09:50 PM)SuperJville Wrote: Stepping up and to the right was the right move. You do that and who knows who ends up being open or how the play develops. Yeah. That 2nd play was just really good coverage. He didn't have anywhere to go with it. Would need to have a built in safety valve there it feels like to at least avoid eating that or have some ability to flush left or right and buy time for a potential coverage breakdown. On the 1st play, yes, he absolutely had Engram breaking wide open in front of him. Just didn't see him there as he sensed that pressure coming from Harrison's side. It's a combination of a lot of things going wrong for this offense with their defense doing a lot of things right at the perfect time. Hopefully they'll learn from this. ![]() "What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."
(09-09-2024, 12:15 PM)Caldrac Wrote:(09-09-2024, 11:55 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: Someone used to say, "the other guys get paid too." That's the takeaway this week, the Jags are a middle of the pack team in the League built to have everyone in the middle of the pack. They can and should be better this week, but winning is always going to be hard. “An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato
We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today! (09-09-2024, 12:34 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote:(09-09-2024, 12:15 PM)Caldrac Wrote: Yeah. That 2nd play was just really good coverage. He didn't have anywhere to go with it. Would need to have a built in safety valve there it feels like to at least avoid eating that or have some ability to flush left or right and buy time for a potential coverage breakdown. It isn't if you catch the damn football or hold onto it with two hands. ![]() "What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."
(09-09-2024, 12:35 PM)Caldrac Wrote:(09-09-2024, 12:34 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: Someone used to say, "the other guys get paid too." That's the takeaway this week, the Jags are a middle of the pack team in the League built to have everyone in the middle of the pack. They can and should be better this week, but winning is always going to be hard. Well of course, but these are humans who aren't perfect. When your roster isn't good enough it's about getting better players. When it is good enough it's about execution and overcoming adversity. The Jags are the second one. “An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato
(09-09-2024, 12:40 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote:(09-09-2024, 12:35 PM)Caldrac Wrote: It isn't if you catch the damn football or hold onto it with two hands. Did Khan get that memo? Because it sure as [BLEEP] sounded like he expects this team to be in win now mode and that it's the best team ever assembled in Jaguars history. ![]() "What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."
(09-09-2024, 12:50 PM)Caldrac Wrote:(09-09-2024, 12:40 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: Well of course, but these are humans who aren't perfect. When your roster isn't good enough it's about getting better players. When it is good enough it's about execution and overcoming adversity. The Jags are the second one. Did losing by a field goal in week 1 to a very good playoff team on the road mean that we aren't in "win now" mode or something? The overreactions today are off the charts. They weren't going to win them all, on the map of a season this is a minor blip. Last year they went 1-2 to start and ended up 8-3 a couple months later before the house collapsed. Let's take a breath, it's a long season and there was plenty to be positive about yesterday too. Everyone doesn't need to turn into SnowWolfie in week 1. “An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato
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09-09-2024, 01:23 PM
(This post was last modified: 09-09-2024, 01:24 PM by mikesez. Edited 2 times in total.)
Second half play calling was the problem.
Didn't happen in a vacuum. The Phins probably made some adjustments on their D that the Jags didn't fully gameplan for and those adjustments caused them to check out of passing plays. They'll look at their play calling process. Mike McDaniel has outfoxed most of the coaches in the NFL by now.
My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.
(09-08-2024, 06:39 PM)SuperJville Wrote: He’s not a rookie, he’s a QB with a $250M contract. Not sure what he coulda done, rollout runs right into the pass rush, step up puts you in defender's grasp, I mean I guess he coulda Levis'd it. That worked out, right? This was certainly a team loss. ETN fumbled, D let the Phins move into FG range, lost the turnover battle, dropped some easy catches, plenty of blame to go round.
(09-09-2024, 10:13 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote:(09-09-2024, 10:05 AM)Caldrac Wrote: Agreed. 21 pass attempts. 12 completions, 3 dropped 3rd down conversions, 3 sacks surrendered, 1 sack that torpedo their opening drive and then back-to-back sacks that came back full circle to finish their day off for good. The Internet is full of people who want us to get rid of Press. You're saying Trevor is the problem, aren't you? (09-09-2024, 06:43 AM)TTechJag85 Wrote: It’s pretty obvious at this point one thing Trevor is not very good at is escaping the pocket when the initial look isn’t there or if there is any type of edge pressure. Not like he standing around waiting for plays to develop, it's kinda hard to react when the pressure is practically immediate. The expectation of him responding to the pressure basically would require him to start adding lib from the snap. That ain't how plays are supposed to work. It was a bad play, thus far not enough to say it defines the line or the QB. I'll wait a week before I start jerkin my knees around We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today!
(09-09-2024, 03:38 PM)Mikey Wrote:(09-09-2024, 06:43 AM)TTechJag85 Wrote: It’s pretty obvious at this point one thing Trevor is not very good at is escaping the pocket when the initial look isn’t there or if there is any type of edge pressure. No one is saying he is always standing around. But I can’t think of many times where Trevor has eluded a rusher … scrambled outside the pocket and found a receiver who broke off his route or went streaking down the sideline ALA Mahomes or Allen pretty frequently… AND THATS OK! He doesn’t have to be Mahomes or Allen. Do I still think there are times where his clock is off and he misses reads or holds on to it to long ? Yes but many QBs do.. only the elite ones do it so rarely that it’s noticeable when it actually happens to them. All in all I think with a better scheme more suited to Lawerence’s and our playmakers abilities we can win a lot of games with Lawerence Because he is a good athlete and has a great arm. And that is the point of my above post. Do I think he will ever be a top 5 QB probably not. But I will be happy to be proven wrong.
(09-09-2024, 03:35 PM)CanDoBetter Wrote:(09-09-2024, 10:13 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: How many pass plays were called in the second half? I continue to see the QB change the call at the line, so how many times did the play called actually get run? Is that a problem? How do you hold Lawrence or Engram or Kirk "accountable"? Harrison got beat for sacks, do you want to run Van Lanen out there instead? The things you say are great platitudes, but how do you actual do it in a meaningful way? That's why criticism from us bleacher dwellers is just hot air, we don't know what's wrong, who's responsible, and what to do about it, but boy do we have very strong opinions about it! He did hold the ball too long on that last drive which led to one of the sacks. He also had a couple of balls sail on him during the game. I'm not concerned about him. A QB is not likely to have every one of his passes be on time and on target through out the entirety of a game, but if we're slicing up the blame pie for this loss, he does get a very small piece of it. The majority of the pie goes to ETN and whoever on the defense is responsible for letting Tyreek run wild immediately after. Lets hope they bounce back this weekend.
(09-09-2024, 04:01 PM)Jaguarmeister Wrote:The defense held the number 1 offense to 17 points until the last play of the game where they had to hit a 50 + yarder to win it. Held then to zero points after Doug went for it on his own 30, multiple 3 and outs from our offense as well. The D is way down the list on why we lost the game yesterday.(09-09-2024, 03:35 PM)CanDoBetter Wrote: The Internet is full of people who want us to get rid of Press. You're saying Trevor is the problem, aren't you? |
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