Passing overall around the league is down but just watch the Bills offense last night. They had so many players running wide open. The play designs and play calls were perfect. And their OL was perfect as well. 

How much of those players being wide open has to do with poor play by the defense?

A lot. We can cry holding here, holding there. Our pass rush had no presence last night when push came to shove. They continued to leave gaps wide open that were obvious for anybody watching at home. Several times Allen just made them pay for their stupidity. 

Nielsen did little to no homework. Allen absolutely destroys man-to-man coverage. It's not even remotely close. When you're playing man-to-man coverage, and, you're not getting any pass rush at that? With three of your starters already out in the secondary with one of your guys going down? It's a recipe for disaster.

As bad as the defense was? I don't want to hear it really. Where has the offense been now since the season started? That's where the bones should be picked. This is a team that's head coached by an offensive "guru", a chip off the old Andy Reid block, a Superbowl winning coach that did it with two different Quarterback's in one season, who bested Brady and Belichick in a game and had the balls to gamble and call innovative plays.

Where in the [BLEEP] is that Doug? Out of the last three weeks? Sure, the defense absolutely [BLEEP] the bed last night, against probably your current runner for the NFL MVP award in Josh Allen, after they had a three day head start to rest for this game at home. Our offense on the other hand? Looked out of sync, inept, lethargic, disinterested, off rhythm and has regressed every single week. 

Went from 17, to 13, to 10. The defense gave you chances a few times in the first two weeks to comeback, show some heart, show some moxie, and, they couldn't get it done. If they had entered Buffalo last night 2 - 0 and took this lump? FINE. I would say, just like last year when they faced the 49ers, this is still a good team, not quite ready yet to play a great team, and they'll be a one and done play-off team more than likely. 

But, when you go, 17, 13 and 10? How can you explain that? How many excuses can you keep bringing up as a team? It's a mess man. This offense is rolling out there in these games like a big fat bloated redfish floating down the Mayport area and you can smell that [BLEEP] a mile away. I mean, I am going to keep the faith. There's fourteen [BLEEP] weeks left. It's not over yet. Even if the historical math says otherwise. 

But, just get a [BLEEP] win guys. Just get a win. That's all it takes. You can [BLEEP] have a bad month of gambling and hit the red to the tune of being in a $5,000 hole but all it takes is just a little hope, a small win, just to get you on a heater and get you out of that hole and back in the green. 

They can do this. If they want it bad enough.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Trevor has the tools.  He needs to step up his leadership game though.  QBs like Manning and Brady visibly held their guys accountable in game when screw ups were happening.  Trevor is a little more laid back and even keel.  There's advantages to that calmness at times, but he needs to start barking at guys and getting pissed off and I'm not generally a proponent of the rah rah. 

Pederson alluded to this in his post game interview last night.  He quoted a saying that "bad teams are leaderless, mediocre teams are coach-led and elite teams are player-led" or something to that effect and said there were examples of vet guys on the team trying to lead but that it isn't where it needs to be yet.  Trevor has to be one of those guys given the position and salary.

I can promise you that Trevor putting his name on the stadium while accomplishing nothing in his career up to this point absolutely pissed off teammates. You can’t put yourself above the team, it was a total look at ME move. You make 55 million everyone gets it. Nobody would respect him yelling at them. Nobody.

You're projecting your feelings onto the players a bit here, though, I realize Brady and Manning commanded a little more respect by default.  If a guy doesn't respond to the de facto leader of the team getting on his case about screw ups, he's not a team guy and probably doesn't need to be here to begin with.

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Also, I'm envisioning more of him taking exception with guys on the offense and less so on the defense. Kinda stay in your lane. I don't know that Brady and Manning were ever caught on camera scolding their defense so I don't think that sort of thing happens or gets received too well. If that's what you're talking about, I agree.

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Josh Allen's first half stats in last nights game alone was better than TLaw's past three GAMES combined unfortunately.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, if Trevor really is who he is, then I'd really like for him to take over the damn game like a good franchise QB.

So far, the O-line hasn't helped him out but it also works in the corollary where Trevor hasn't elevated the players around him either...

We really need a game where Trevor dominates all 4 quarters emphatically, because I am tired of these anemic performances that are occurring more times than not. Stat lines like [21/38 178 yards 1 TD (garbage time) and 1 INT] just won't cut it in this version of the NFL - and we've been getting these type of performances in what seems like almost every game at this point.

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Some guys around here will argue and say it's -1,000%. 

It's Jimmy's and Joe's guys! Not X's and O's. 
It's execution guys! Not play design!

It's both. The correct answer is both. The staff sucks. The roster sucks. The chef sucks. The cook sucks. Hire Gordon [BLEEP] Ramsay to come in here and roast everybody for 1 hour of must see television. 

"The play call is [BLEEP] raw! Your defender was burnt toast on that play! What bullocks mate! Look at your offensive line! It's built like an idiot sandwich!"

Hand Gordon Ramsey a bag full of dog [BLEEP] and demand he produce a gourmet dinner while the store manager tells you that he gave you a wonderful selection of ingredients for a meal.

While I disagree with it...  This right here is good metaphore

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Our offense is in the bottom 3rd of the league in almost every metric - which is what I wasn't expecting going into year 4 of this experiment.

Just last night there were two distinct plays where he had tunnel-vision and tried to force it in a gap where a receiver was blanketed or double-covered, instead of taking the option that was wide open. Specifically, I called out that throw he forced to Gabe Davis in the end zone when he had CKirk WIDE OPEN with a sizeable gain and potentially a touchdown. I won't even get into that egregious interception, because that's not a miss that NFL caliber players make and yet, we see those sailing interceptions every season. I'm okay with our offense taking chances and turnovers come with that territory, but when we're missing receivers wide open because he's staring down only one-option - its hindering this offense.

We're getting way too many anemic performances on offense to be successful in the NFL - and it unfortunately includes our QB who we thought was a Ferrari, but might very well be a Buick unfortunately.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

https://x.com/SharpFBAnalysis/status/183...11845?s=19

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I'm so depressed right now.  This team, man.  It feels like there is no hope left.  This is going to be the longest season

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I'm so depressed right now.  This team, man.  It feels like there is no hope left.  This is going to be the longest season

We'll see. One week at a time. All it takes is just one win.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Opposing defenses know that TLaw has a tendency to stay locked in on a single target and gets flustered when you throw the blitz at him.

Our O-line has sucked for many years now, but Trevor also does no favors to help them or others on offense either. There were a few times last night where he would spin out of the pocket needlessly and run into a sack - which has been a recurring theme now. I fear that Trevor is broken and is the modern day version of David Carr...

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I'm so depressed right now.  This team, man.  It feels like there is no hope left.  This is going to be the longest season

If we can survive the next one the schedule gets easier for two or three games the it's Murderer's Row after that until Christmas. We might need rehab by Thanksgiving.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

I'm so depressed right now.  This team, man.  It feels like there is no hope left.  This is going to be the longest season

If we can survive the next one the schedule gets easier for two or three games the it's Murderer's Row after that until Christmas. We might need rehab by Thanksgiving.

Last week I was more positive about our chances to still be fighting for the playoffs.  I mean, we're only 2 games back, technically.

If we can pull off a miracle on Sunday, we're right back in this.  It's just that the effort the players are putting out and the lack of coaching competence is beginning to make me thing all hope is lost.  Hopefully I'm wrong and they can turn this thing around...

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The spin move!!!  I don't think I've ever seen that before (unforced).  The worst part of the play is that it's 1st and 10 and his check down is wide open.

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NYC4jags Wrote:
Can we leave the personal insults behind for a while and get back to some semblance of topic, gents?
Please, and thank you.

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The spin move!!!  I don't think I've ever seen that before (unforced).  The worst part of the play is that it's 1st and 10 and his check down is wide open.

A competent QB coach, or a HC that is all in on developing the QB would have fixed this by last year.  He's been doing that spin move since his rookie season.   He should have been learning how to step around in the pocket for at least the last 2 years.  But, I just don't think the coaches are actually interested in developing players.

And yes, before someone says it, the O-Line has been so bad that Trevor doesn't trust that they can protect him.  I understand that too.  But it's still important that the coaches work with trevor on his pocket movement.  Clearly they haven't.

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The spin move!!!  I don't think I've ever seen that before (unforced).  The worst part of the play is that it's 1st and 10 and his check down is wide open.

A competent QB coach, or a HC that is all in on developing the QB would have fixed this by last year.  He's been doing that spin move since his rookie season.   He should have been learning how to step around in the pocket for at least the last 2 years.  But, I just don't think the coaches are actually interested in developing players.

And yes, before someone says it, the O-Line has been so bad that Trevor doesn't trust that they can protect him.  I understand that too.  But it's still important that the coaches work with trevor on his pocket movement.  Clearly they haven't.

It's also important that when Trevor, from what we can all assume, has seen this recurring issue on his own game tape for the last 4 years should also be able to recognize that during film study.

He is what he is - and there were some people who followed Clemson closely warning others of these tendencies with TLaw coming out.

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A competent QB coach, or a HC that is all in on developing the QB would have fixed this by last year.  He's been doing that spin move since his rookie season.   He should have been learning how to step around in the pocket for at least the last 2 years.  But, I just don't think the coaches are actually interested in developing players.

And yes, before someone says it, the O-Line has been so bad that Trevor doesn't trust that they can protect him.  I understand that too.  But it's still important that the coaches work with trevor on his pocket movement.  Clearly they haven't.

It's also important that when Trevor, from what we can all assume, has seen this recurring issue on his own game tape for the last 4 years should also be able to recognize that during film study.

He is what he is - and there were some people who followed Clemson closely warning others of these tendencies with TLaw coming out.

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Can't argue too much against this.  I'm still a Trevor Stan.  I think he can be fixed.  But at this point, it's fair to say he's broken.

Regarding Trevor recognizing his own weaknesses.  I remember when I first started working my first job in the field of my study.  I was given an account to analyze.  I spent the whole day just staring at the issue, knowing that there was something wrong and that I had to correct it.  But for the life of me, I had no idea how to fix it.  

Thankfully, I had a competent supervisor.  So I took my work to him, I told him that I could see there was an issue with the account.  But I didn't know exactly how to correct the problem.  He took the time to walk me through the issue and show me how to account for it, correct it, and then make sure how to deal with the situation when they arise again in other situations that will come up with other accounts.  Then, over time I would bring him my work on other accounts with similar issues, and he'd oversee my work to ensure I was doing it properly.  Over time I was able to actually help others.  But it took time and diligence on not just my part, but my supervisors part to train me to do the work the best possible way.

That's how you develop a person.  It's also how you develop athletes.  I'm sure Trevor can look at the game tape and see the mistakes he's making.  But if no-one is working with him on how to correct those mistakes, it just continues to get worse.

Practice does not make perfect.  If you continue to practice the same things that are not working, you are only instilling those bad habits.  I feel like that's what's happening here.  Everyone knows there's a problem, nobody knows (or maybe they just don't care) on how to correct the issue to ensure better results moving forward.

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It's also important that when Trevor, from what we can all assume, has seen this recurring issue on his own game tape for the last 4 years should also be able to recognize that during film study.

He is what he is - and there were some people who followed Clemson closely warning others of these tendencies with TLaw coming out.

Can't argue too much against this.  I'm still a Trevor Stan.  I think he can be fixed.  But at this point, it's fair to say he's broken.

Regarding Trevor recognizing his own weaknesses.  I remember when I first started working my first job in the field of my study.  I was given an account to analyze.  I spent the whole day just staring at the issue, knowing that there was something wrong and that I had to correct it.  But for the life of me, I had no idea how to fix it.  

Thankfully, I had a competent supervisor.  So I took my work to him, I told him that I could see there was an issue with the account.  But I didn't know exactly how to correct the problem.  He took the time to walk me through the issue and show me how to account for it, correct it, and then make sure how to deal with the situation when they arise again in other situations that will come up with other accounts.  Then, over time I would bring him my work on other accounts with similar issues, and he'd oversee my work to ensure I was doing it properly.  Over time I was able to actually help others.  But it took time and diligence on not just my part, but my supervisors part to train me to do the work the best possible way.

That's how you develop a person.  It's also how you develop athletes.  I'm sure Trevor can look at the game tape and see the mistakes he's making.  But if no-one is working with him on how to correct those mistakes, it just continues to get worse.

Practice does not make perfect.  If you continue to practice the same things that are not working, you are only instilling those bad habits.  I feel like that's what's happening here.  Everyone knows there's a problem, nobody knows (or maybe they just don't care) on how to correct the issue to ensure better results moving forward.

I absolutely agree with you, but if we're going to make some reasonable assumptions about the coaching - one would strongly believe that these issues have been pointed out and addressed numerous times during film study. There's no way that it doesn't, especially at this level where the game is very cut-throat and jobs are always on the line if you don't produce a viable product.

I'm not here making excuses for the coaching staff and FO, because they are a massive part of this problem we currently face. However, I can also play the devil's advocate and say what if Trevor is remaining, or reverting, to his bad tendencies/mechanics for numerous reasons - both, under his own accord and through the faulty play around him.

I would assume that a generational prospect and student-of-the-game would continually progress with AND without the assistance of a coaching staff.

Hopefully hell freezes over and we beat the Tinhorns - and beat them convincingly where Trevor goes 30/35 300+ yards 3 TDs 0 INTs and really asserts his "greatness". This team desperately needs the confidence boost, let alone the fans and city.

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Our starting offensive tackles are respectively 3rd and 14th WORST among, not just tackles, but ALL olinemen in the ENTIRE NFL. But hey, Trev gotta play better.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Our starting offensive tackles are respectively 3rd and  14th WORST among, not just tackles, but ALL olinemen in the ENTIRE NFL. But hey, Trev gotta play better.

Is that just for passing grading or rush too? 

There’s no consistent run game so we’ve become  very one dimensional

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Our starting offensive tackles are respectively 3rd and  14th WORST among, not just tackles, but ALL olinemen in the ENTIRE NFL. But hey, Trev gotta play better.

^This is %100 pure deflection.  You can't watch Trevor sit back in the pocket with all the time he needs, sail a pass over the head of a wide-open receiver, right into the hands of a defensive player and blame the offensive tackles.  Not admitting that Trevor is PART of the problem is nonsense.

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NYC4jags Wrote:
Can we leave the personal insults behind for a while and get back to some semblance of topic, gents?
Please, and thank you.