What the focus should be on the play is

A. HE had a clean pocket
B. He had clear sight of the receiver
C. The receiver was wide open
D. The Qb made another bad throw

All of that is true

It's just that you chose THAT play to prop up criticism of the quarterback when that play is not indicative of the pattern of mistakes he has been making. It's an outlier.

You see what you want. I and many others see a Qb with accuracy issues. It's much deeper than just that.

---

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdE17pKAecM&t=441s

Just listen to this guy. And tell me he knows what he's doing and what needs to be done to fix Trevor.

Coaches matter. This guys a chump.

---

LOL.

Trevor is being failed by his coaching staff.  

It's not an outlier.  This has been a problem since last year.  Even when we were going 8-3, anyone watching other NFL teams could tell there was something wrong with this offense...  

But meh.  No big deal.  It's an outlier.

Imagine having a #1 QB that flashed greatness in 2022, and then watching him slowly decline over the next 2 seasons.  Some folks think it's "Meh" and think it's an "Outlier".  As though he hasn't been doing these things since 2023... 

I sure hope Doug gets back to the basics that made this offense successful 2 seasons ago.  I have my doubts.  But I'm still in hopium mode.

Way am I 100% not surprised you don't understand why a sailed pass is an outlier among Trevor's 2024 mistakes. 
Overthrows are far from his biggest issue. They've become more and more uncommon from him as his career has waned on. 

"Meh" was in reference to the other poster's criticism of the play as an example of what's wrong. It's a bad example. 
It's his only INT this year.

You should also gain some perspective on how BTJ undercut his route and would have run deeper had he not been cut off by the defender trailing Duvernay. 

It is made plain for you in this clip. You can see BTJ turn on a shallower angle when Duvernay's cover guy blocks his path. 

---

https://twitter.com/TravisDHolmes/status...2223343030

Why

---

If you want to lump that into a broader accuracy basket, you can do that.

My point is that he used to have a pretty consistent issue with overthrows and that has gotten much better over time. 

And I'm not going to accept anecdotal citings from a biased tinhorn fan about anything that happened in a game that was rapidly out of hand for anything more than what it is. You get down by 3 scores that fast and [BLEEP] gets pretty desperate.

Sorry to interrupt this nonbiased thread...  You've vigorously defended the offensive line moves (or lack thereof).  You've vigorously promoted the new defensive coordinator.  You've vigorously defended the Head Coach.  You've vigorously defended Travis Walker over Aiden Hutchinson. And you've vigorously defended Trevor Lawrence, except now you're dipping your toes in the water.  So let's hear your non-biased opinion on Trevor's current 0-8 record, the last 3 in particular. .

You're throwing a big blanket over a bunch of discussion and labeling it "defending" 

It's a lot more nuanced than that. 

If you actually pay attention to my posting here you'll find that I'm critical of Jags players, coaches and F.O. 

But I go out of my way to defend them from posters who are attacking them for the wrong things, attacking them with bad analysis, or are in some way misguided in their criticism. 

For instance - your take on my defense of the OL moves is 100% horse [BLEEP]. 
I've been VERY critical of the way they've handled the line. I just shut down your lazy take on it because you sad they did nothing when they improved the 2 weakest links on the line. And it has played out exactly that way. Last year's two worst performers in the front 5 have been replaced with much better play. 
That wasn't me defending the line and its treatment, it was me shutting down your ignorance of the situation. 

In your cute little list, the only guy I've defended without hardly any critique is Doug Pederson, although I've flatly blamed him for the OL issues for over a year hear a gazillion times, so even that one is off. 
I'm certainly not defending his scheme anymore. That much has changed. 

I already listed what Trevor is doing wrong and needs to improve. Sorry you missed it. Not surprised based on this [BLEEP] post of yours.

---

https://twitter.com/throwthedamball/stat...-VtZB6L1eA

---

https://twitter.com/throwthedamball/stat...-VtZB6L1eA

I am bit of a dummy when it comes to all of these new age charts, graphs and terminologies. 

However, does this mean that he's basically a one-read QB? Like that one defender said last year? Is that what I am gathering from this chart? Why the [BLEEP] is he allllllllllll the way over to the right on an island compared to everybody else on this chart?

---

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

https://twitter.com/throwthedamball/stat...-VtZB6L1eA

I am bit of a dummy when it comes to all of these new age charts, graphs and terminologies. 

However, does this mean that he's basically a one-read QB? Like that one defender said last year? Is that what I am gathering from this chart? Why the [BLEEP] is he allllllllllll the way over to the right on an island compared to everybody else on this chart?

Correct, he has by far the most % of his throws to his first read than any other QB.  I know alot of that is because of our oline not giving him the time to go through reads but a lot of times when he has time it doesnt happen.  Either he sees ghost, misses the throw, just goes to his first read instead of going though his progressions etc.  At times he could step up into the pocket and buy a little time to go to his next read.  I think the clock in his head is just off and at times he feels pressure when its not there and that just comes from how bad our oline has been since he was drafted.  He has to break that habbit though.

---

He just ain’t that good, guys.

---

<FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=3><B><FONT face=Verdana color=#ff6600 size=4></FONT></B></FONT>

He just ain’t that good, guys.

Right now, i agree.  I do think he can be good though with better coaching and oline play

---

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdE17pKAecM&t=441s

Just listen to this guy.  And tell me he knows what he's doing and what needs to be done to fix Trevor.

Coaches matter.  This guys a chump.

---

Way am I 100% not surprised you don't understand why a sailed pass is an outlier among Trevor's 2024 mistakes. 
Overthrows are far from his biggest issue. They've become more and more uncommon from him as his career has waned on. 

"Meh" was in reference to the other poster's criticism of the play as an example of what's wrong. It's a bad example. 
It's his only INT this year.

You should also gain some perspective on how BTJ undercut his route and would have run deeper had he not been cut off by the defender trailing Duvernay. 

It is made plain for you in this clip. You can see BTJ turn on a shallower angle when Duvernay's cover guy blocks his path. 

---

https://twitter.com/TravisDHolmes/status...2223343030

Why

That video gives me no comfort.

---

https://twitter.com/throwthedamball/stat...-VtZB6L1eA

How is it determined what the "first read" is?

---

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdE17pKAecM&t=441s

Just listen to this guy.  And tell me he knows what he's doing and what needs to be done to fix Trevor.

Coaches matter.  This guys a chump.

---

Way am I 100% not surprised you don't understand why a sailed pass is an outlier among Trevor's 2024 mistakes. 
Overthrows are far from his biggest issue. They've become more and more uncommon from him as his career has waned on. 

"Meh" was in reference to the other poster's criticism of the play as an example of what's wrong. It's a bad example. 
It's his only INT this year.

You should also gain some perspective on how BTJ undercut his route and would have run deeper had he not been cut off by the defender trailing Duvernay. 

It is made plain for you in this clip. You can see BTJ turn on a shallower angle when Duvernay's cover guy blocks his path. 

---

https://twitter.com/TravisDHolmes/status...2223343030

Why

While I am not Press' biggest fan nor supporter. It was 10 minutes of "coach speak". There's nothing that he said there with the questions that were presented to him that didn't seem incorrect or lacking in facts. That's what you're supposed to do with the media.

While he's clearly not like his older brother, Zac Taylor, there's always room for improvement and there's a lot of different things that we're not privy to seeing during their regular work week, their day-to-day practices, their installment's, their planning, etc. 

It's a soup of issues, with each person throwing ingredients into it that either makes it successful and a good product that you can sell on gamedays, or, it becomes too muddy and it lacks overall substance and it's something you can't sell if your life depended on it. 

He's not the only coach in that building as well. Mike McCoy is in that building. Doug Pederson is in that building. Press is still very young for the job. He's clearly going to have his up's and down's as he learns the in's and out's of the job, the responsibilities and what's expected out of him. 

This kind of goes back to my earlier arguments and the whole "pie chart of blame" graph or numbers I was throwing around. Should we be more upset with Press? Or, should the hate really be aimed at Trent for failing to find the right pieces we've needed along the offensive line, and, to go a further step forward, the defensive line, because we're not getting any push inside on that side of the football again for the second or third straight year in a row.

Should I be mad at Press, when, it's Doug's decision to put him in this position to begin with? To take his hands off the play caller's sheet and allow Press' to run the gambit from time to time or full time now? Is it worth getting frustrated that much at Press if we're seeing Lawrence, again, whether anybody likes it or not, he has a turnover problem.

Did Press make Trevor sail that pass on Monday to Hamlin?

Did Press make Johnson line-up and cause an illegal procedure penalty when a TD to Kirk was negated? Why are we not calling for Jerry Mack's head there? The RB coach? That's HIS guy that caused the penalty. What about Etienne's fumbling of the football and all of our momentum in the season opener in Miami? 

Where was Jerry Mack on that play? Why are we not calling for Jerry Mack's job? 

Same thing with the offensive line. Phil Rauscher's name comes up a good bit around here. However, if we're going to get into this [BLEEP] for tat nonsense about who does what, who calls what, who addresses what, etc. 

Rauscher probably deserves the overwhelming amount of blame if we're just looking at it from a coach to coach perspective. These should be questions he needs to answer for. Why hasn't Walker Little developed good enough to play LT full time? Why didn't Luke Fortner work out at Center after he managed to play a full 19 game season back in 2022? Why has Anton Harrison looked rough already after three weeks of play? 

I mean, we can keep doing this all day but it's not resulting in anything changing. The two key areas where this team has struggled since DAY ONE, even back to Lawrence's first year with Urban Meyer is two of the most critical aspects in today's NFL.

1. Turnovers.
2. Dropped passes. 

That's it. The majority of most football games are decided by those two key components. And this team has excelled magnificently at doing both at an astronomically mind numbing pace. 

Is that really all on Press and Doug? I don't think it is. Can they call a better game to maybe make those situations easier and less frequent? Yeah, probably. Again, not giving them a free pass here. Doug has a lot to answer for, especially if Nielsen flounders as his second defensive coordinator in three years. This is an indictment on Doug's lack of knowledge of the game as well as his lack of networking. 

We'll see what happens I guess starting this Sunday. But, to nitpick Press' for his "coach speak" here is just petty. They DO need to call more of the quick hitter plays and deliberate mobility plays for Lawrence like they did back in 2022 to get the offense moving though. It's not like they're not trying to fix these issues. They did noticeably have bigger personnel packages in the Buffalo game when it was 3rd and short or 4th and short. 

They also need to do better things with their personnel. For sure. Didn't like seeing Gave Davis blocking a DE in the Cleveland loss, which, again, blew a massive play downfield for Lawrence. I believe he had Strange breaking wide open on a deep post route. He looked at his first read there and immediately chucked it in the direction after Davis, predictably and reasonably, couldn't hold his ground against a DE that probably had a minimum of 60 pounds on him. 

They also had some questionable concepts in the Buffalo loss. They also had some drops, again, common theme. Going back to last year with Ridley. So, it is what it is. Again, we can nitpick like a mother [BLEEP] all day with this football team. As much as I want to [BLEEP] on this coaching staff at times, these guys really do need to dig their own heads out of their own [BLEEP] on the football field and execute better.

Especially when you know you're struggling, and your QB is struggling.

---

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

https://twitter.com/throwthedamball/stat...-VtZB6L1eA

How is it determined what the "first read" is?

They are taking educated guesses at the QB's first read. They don't know the play design or intended progression. 

Lots and lots of non-objective "stats" like this floating around these days. 
A product of the legal betting entities growing like wildfire and the ensuing analytics platforms that seek to make money educating bettors.

---

He just ain’t that good, guys.

Right now, i agree.  I do think he can be good though with better coaching and oline play

The question is will he?

---

How is it determined what the "first read" is?

They are taking educated guesses at the QB's first read. They don't know the play design or intended progression. 

Lots and lots of non-objective "stats" like this floating around these days. 
A product of the legal betting entities growing like wildfire and the ensuing analytics platforms that seek to make money educating bettors.

Throw the stats out if you wish.

He does not pass the eye test

---

Right now, i agree.  I do think he can be good though with better coaching and oline play

The question is will he?

---

They are taking educated guesses at the QB's first read. They don't know the play design or intended progression. 

Lots and lots of non-objective "stats" like this floating around these days. 
A product of the legal betting entities growing like wildfire and the ensuing analytics platforms that seek to make money educating bettors.

Throw the stats out if you wish.

He does not pass the eye test

I'm not throwing out stats, I'm lending them context.

And your "eye test" is far less objective than those questionable stats. 

It's weird how the few folks that just want to bash the kid are unaccepting of measured criticism of his play. 

What QB do you want the Jags to sign or draft in 2025?

---

https://twitter.com/throwthedamball/stat...-VtZB6L1eA

That is ugly.  It' year 4 people. When are we going to starting questing this?

---

The question is will he?

---

Throw the stats out if you wish.

He does not pass the eye test

I'm not throwing out stats, I'm lending them context.

And your "eye test" is far less objective than those questionable stats. 

It's weird how the few folks that just want to bash the kid are unaccepting of measured criticism of his play. 

What QB do you want the Jags to sign or draft in 2025?

If you were to ask 30 other GMs in this league, they couldn't give you an answer. Not sure what your expecting to hear from your question....

The ideal would be to draft a QB next year in rounds 3-4 and just to have some healthy competion next year. I don't think thats a bad idea. There's too many uncertainy leading up to next year. Possibly a clean slate in the organization, and who knowz Lawrence leash will be short with the new staff.

---

https://twitter.com/throwthedamball/stat...-VtZB6L1eA

That is ugly.  It' year 4 people. When are we going to starting questing this?

Regardless of those stats - it doesn't take a genius to realize that Lawrence is an average QB under the right circumstances. He has peaked in '22 and sadly that the best version you'll let get with him, which at best is just average with alot of TO/INTs along the way - see the Chargers game for examples.

---

https://twitter.com/throwthedamball/stat...-VtZB6L1eA

That is ugly.  It' year 4 people. When are we going to starting questing this?y

It's a fabricated chart as there is no way of knowing what "the first read" is.

---

That is ugly.  It' year 4 people. When are we going to starting questing this?y

It's a fabricated chart as there is no way of knowing what "the first read" is.

Yes and no? Pass plays have progressions and reads that the QB executes to make the best decision of who to throw to. The QB knows before the snap who the first read, second read, third read, and so on is, but they don't usually know which one they'll be throwing to until after the snap. There are some plays though where it's obvious the QB decided before the snap who to throw to (the QB throws the ball almost instantly once the snap is made).

---

It's a fabricated chart as there is no way of knowing what "the first read" is.

Yes and no? Pass plays have progressions and reads that the QB executes to make the best decision of who to throw to. The QB knows before the snap who the first read, second read, third read, and so on is, but they don't usually know which one they'll be throwing to until after the snap. There are some plays though where it's obvious the QB decided before the snap who to throw to (the QB throws the ball almost instantly once the snap is made).

How do the people/person who made this chart know what the "first read" was?

---

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdE17pKAecM&t=441s

Just listen to this guy.  And tell me he knows what he's doing and what needs to be done to fix Trevor.

Coaches matter.  This guys a chump.

---

Why

While I am not Press' biggest fan nor supporter. It was 10 minutes of "coach speak". There's nothing that he said there with the questions that were presented to him that didn't seem incorrect or lacking in facts. That's what you're supposed to do with the media.

While he's clearly not like his older brother, Zac Taylor, there's always room for improvement and there's a lot of different things that we're not privy to seeing during their regular work week, their day-to-day practices, their installment's, their planning, etc. 

It's a soup of issues, with each person throwing ingredients into it that either makes it successful and a good product that you can sell on gamedays, or, it becomes too muddy and it lacks overall substance and it's something you can't sell if your life depended on it. 

He's not the only coach in that building as well. Mike McCoy is in that building. Doug Pederson is in that building. Press is still very young for the job. He's clearly going to have his up's and down's as he learns the in's and out's of the job, the responsibilities and what's expected out of him. 

This kind of goes back to my earlier arguments and the whole "pie chart of blame" graph or numbers I was throwing around. Should we be more upset with Press? Or, should the hate really be aimed at Trent for failing to find the right pieces we've needed along the offensive line, and, to go a further step forward, the defensive line, because we're not getting any push inside on that side of the football again for the second or third straight year in a row.

Should I be mad at Press, when, it's Doug's decision to put him in this position to begin with? To take his hands off the play caller's sheet and allow Press' to run the gambit from time to time or full time now? Is it worth getting frustrated that much at Press if we're seeing Lawrence, again, whether anybody likes it or not, he has a turnover problem.

Did Press make Trevor sail that pass on Monday to Hamlin?

Did Press make Johnson line-up and cause an illegal procedure penalty when a TD to Kirk was negated? Why are we not calling for Jerry Mack's head there? The RB coach? That's HIS guy that caused the penalty. What about Etienne's fumbling of the football and all of our momentum in the season opener in Miami? 

Where was Jerry Mack on that play? Why are we not calling for Jerry Mack's job? 

Same thing with the offensive line. Phil Rauscher's name comes up a good bit around here. However, if we're going to get into this [BLEEP] for tat nonsense about who does what, who calls what, who addresses what, etc. 

Rauscher probably deserves the overwhelming amount of blame if we're just looking at it from a coach to coach perspective. These should be questions he needs to answer for. Why hasn't Walker Little developed good enough to play LT full time? Why didn't Luke Fortner work out at Center after he managed to play a full 19 game season back in 2022? Why has Anton Harrison looked rough already after three weeks of play? 

I mean, we can keep doing this all day but it's not resulting in anything changing. The two key areas where this team has struggled since DAY ONE, even back to Lawrence's first year with Urban Meyer is two of the most critical aspects in today's NFL.

1. Turnovers.
2. Dropped passes. 

That's it. The majority of most football games are decided by those two key components. And this team has excelled magnificently at doing both at an astronomically mind numbing pace. 

Is that really all on Press and Doug? I don't think it is. Can they call a better game to maybe make those situations easier and less frequent? Yeah, probably. Again, not giving them a free pass here. Doug has a lot to answer for, especially if Nielsen flounders as his second defensive coordinator in three years. This is an indictment on Doug's lack of knowledge of the game as well as his lack of networking. 

We'll see what happens I guess starting this Sunday. But, to nitpick Press' for his "coach speak" here is just petty. They DO need to call more of the quick hitter plays and deliberate mobility plays for Lawrence like they did back in 2022 to get the offense moving though. It's not like they're not trying to fix these issues. They did noticeably have bigger personnel packages in the Buffalo game when it was 3rd and short or 4th and short. 

They also need to do better things with their personnel. For sure. Didn't like seeing Gave Davis blocking a DE in the Cleveland loss, which, again, blew a massive play downfield for Lawrence. I believe he had Strange breaking wide open on a deep post route. He looked at his first read there and immediately chucked it in the direction after Davis, predictably and reasonably, couldn't hold his ground against a DE that probably had a minimum of 60 pounds on him. 

They also had some questionable concepts in the Buffalo loss. They also had some drops, again, common theme. Going back to last year with Ridley. So, it is what it is. Again, we can nitpick like a mother [BLEEP] all day with this football team. As much as I want to [BLEEP] on this coaching staff at times, these guys really do need to dig their own heads out of their own [BLEEP] on the football field and execute better.

Especially when you know you're struggling, and your QB is struggling.

I appreciate you, Caldrac.  You may not agree with posters, but you're always on topic and not abusive.

So, while I'm in this current thread, I'll try to stay on topic regarding Trevor Lawrence as our Franchise QB.  And just to confirm, I still think he's capable of being a franchise QB.

You're first point was regarding our OC, which is appropriate because I linked his press conference as an example of how the OC has been ruining our QB since 2023.  I disagree with your point of view that Press Taylor was just giving 10 minutes of "coach speak".  The reason I posted that youtube video is because it sounded to me, and to many that he's a man with no answers.  Coach speak, in my opinion, sounds very different then the way Taylor handled the questions that were being asked him.  In my opinion, he clearly is out of his element.  I also don't believe there is any room for improvement with Press.  It's been reported by Mia and many other Jaguars reporters here in Duval County that Press was running the offense in 2023.  And it's been confirmed by them again here in 2024.  That's the reason why Doug being "coy" this preseason about who's running the offense is so confounding to many Jaguar journalists.

Regarding the Pie Chart you presented.  Last year, I was adamant that it Press Taylor was responsible for over 50% of the reason why we didn't live up to the promise of 2022.  The posters here that always antagonize and insult me thought that I was incorrect with my criticism.  I stand by my arguments from last year.  Last year, I let them get to me and became abusive.  I'm no longer abusive, because I know I'm right and they were wrong.  The results from the end of last season and the beginning of this season proves it.  I was a huge Pederson fan.  If he goes back to how he ran the team in 2022, we can still turn this thing around.  But it has to be making the OC a subordinate to the HC in terms of how the offense is run on all aspects, from preparation, to game planning, to schemes, to play calling.  Press is not capable of running an offense by himself.

The rest of your responses to me are basically execution issues.  Which, we heard ad nauseum was the problem last year.  Remember?  We just gotta execute better.  Every week.  We kept hearing the same dog gone thing.

At some point, you have to just bench, cut, or point the finger back to the coaches.  

I'm a guy that believes coaching in the NFL is much more important than the players that are on the field.  Not to say that players aren't important.  But why is it that certain coaches (Mike Tomlin comes to mind) always seems to have teams that are competitive and playoff contenders, even when they have suspect players in key positions?  Players not plays is a Vic Ketchman mantra that is total Bull [BLEEP] that certain posters here ate up as gospel.  And they can't figure out why the rest of the league is lapping us while we continue to stay stuck in neutral.

This is the Trevor Lawrence thread, so I'll just leave this as is.  But to me, Trevor is still capable of becoming very good.  Just look at how certain QBs have developed after leaving a trash coaching staff.  Justin Feilds, Baker Mayfeild, Stafford, heck even Sam Darnold is looking good.  These are teams that have QBs that are no where near as gifted as Trevor Lawrence.  But these are also teams that have competent coaching that makes these mediocre QBs look better than our QB.

That, in my opinion, is the key point that I can't fathom anyone can disagree with.  But of course, we can all find holes in others' arguments.  I appreciate your reply to me.  I hope my response is at least something you might consider.

---