Create Account



The Jungle is self-supported by showing advertisements via Google Adsense.
Please consider disabling your advertisement-blocking plugin on the Jungle to help support the site and let us grow!
We also show significantly less advertisements to registered users, so create your account to benefit from this!
Questions or concerns about this ad? Take a screenshot and comment in the thread. We do value your feedback.
Trevor Lawrence: Franchise QB (TL Discussion, Merged Threads)


(09-27-2024, 07:28 PM)PV=nRT Wrote:
(09-27-2024, 07:15 PM)TDOSS Wrote: Yes and no? Pass plays have progressions and reads that the QB executes to make the best decision of who to throw to. The QB knows before the snap who the first read, second read, third read, and so on is, but they don't usually know which one they'll be throwing to until after the snap. There are some plays though where it's obvious the QB decided before the snap who to throw to (the QB throws the ball almost instantly once the snap is made).

How do the people/person who made this chart know what the "first read" was?

They unequivocally do not know.
Reply

We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today!



(09-28-2024, 03:33 PM)NYC4jags Wrote:
(09-27-2024, 07:28 PM)PV=nRT Wrote: How do the people/person who made this chart know what the "first read" was?

They unequivocally do not know.

They don't know for any of the quarterbacks. 
Yeah they concluded that Trevor is doing it more than the others. They're seeing something in Trevor's snaps that is not there as often with any of the other 31 quarterbacks.
My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.
Reply


(09-28-2024, 05:52 PM)mikesez Wrote:
(09-28-2024, 03:33 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: They unequivocally do not know.

They don't know for any of the quarterbacks. 
Yeah they concluded that Trevor is doing it more than the others. They're seeing something in Trevor's snaps that is not there as often with any of the other 31 quarterbacks.

And that "something" is also very far from concrete, making conclusions and deductions far from reliable.
Reply


(09-28-2024, 06:00 PM)NYC4jags Wrote:
(09-28-2024, 05:52 PM)mikesez Wrote: They don't know for any of the quarterbacks. 
Yeah they concluded that Trevor is doing it more than the others. They're seeing something in Trevor's snaps that is not there as often with any of the other 31 quarterbacks.

And that "something" is also very far from concrete, making conclusions and deductions far from reliable.

If it looked like the QB throwing to his first read on the screen, it probably looked like that to the D as well.
My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.
Reply


(09-28-2024, 06:15 PM)mikesez Wrote:
(09-28-2024, 06:00 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: And that "something" is also very far from concrete, making conclusions and deductions far from reliable.

If it looked like the QB throwing to his first read on the screen, it probably looked like that to the D as well.

Doesn't mean much except when the defense is in zone and multiple defenders have eyes on the QB. 

And I'd love for these analysts to tell me how they "know" the difference between a first read and a premeditated throw to a specific matchup that would normally be further down the progression.

I'd like to see how they know the first read when a QB is staring down a trips formation. 

There are just too many factors in play design, QB decisions, and game planning that make it impossible to know.

The fact of the matter is that the chart and the associated newly-invented "stat" is nebulous as hell and impossible to define with any certainty.


That said - I do think Trevor likes to decide who he wants to target pre-snap too often and he forces some of those throws when he shouldn't. 

That's something he should clean up, but it is not the same as saying he throws to his first read 90% of the time. 

Reply

We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today!



(09-28-2024, 06:26 PM)NYC4jags Wrote:
(09-28-2024, 06:15 PM)mikesez Wrote: If it looked like the QB throwing to his first read on the screen, it probably looked like that to the D as well.

Doesn't mean much except when the defense is in zone and multiple defenders have eyes on the QB. 

And I'd love for these analysts to tell me how they "know" the difference between a first read and a premeditated throw to a specific matchup that would normally be further down the progression.

I'd like to see how they know the first read when a QB is staring down a trips formation. 

There are just too many factors in play design, QB decisions, and game planning that make it impossible to know.

The fact of the matter is that the chart and the associated newly-invented "stat" is nebulous as hell and impossible to define with any certainty.


That said - I do think Trevor likes to decide who he wants to target pre-snap too often and he forces some of those throws when he shouldn't. 

That's something he should clean up, but it is not the same as saying he throws to his first read 90% of the time. 

My guess for 'first read' is just 'first guy the QB looks at after the snap', which is really a question of whether the QB understood the coverage pre snap. Seems like Trevor usually understand the coverage and throws it to the first guy he looked at when the ball is snapped.

Trev has been pretty badly betrayed by Kirk so far this year.
Reply


The Jaguars broke another QB… Trevor looks scared and unsure. Too many of his throws are errant. He’s not looking at the whole field, because he’s constantly running for his life or rushing a pass, or he just eats the sack and not throwing it away.

This is Baalke and his half [BLEEP] attempts at addressing the O-Line.. Trevor’s playing scared
"If you always do what you've always done, You'll always get what you always got"
Reply

(This post was last modified: 09-29-2024, 02:57 PM by enigma.)

There are absolutely no excuses left to make for our quarter of a billion dollar QB.

He's missed on NUMEROUS throws that would have led to big gains/touchdowns with BTJ, let alone routine throws to ETN/Strange/others in the flat or intermediate routes.

He's not it sadly.

Forgot to even mention the Whirly Bird special where he spins into sacks instead of moving up the pocket...

The times that the O-line provides a channel to move up, he just bails out into a disastrous play.

Reply


CJ Stroud: 27/40 345 yards 2 TDs 0 INTs

Trevy Trev: 17/31 178 yards 2 TDs 0 INTs

Reply

We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today!



(09-29-2024, 04:12 PM)enigma Wrote: CJ Stroud: 27/40 345 yards 2 TDs 0 INTs

Trevy Trev: 17/31 178 yards 2 TDs 0 INTs

Damn man that seals it. Bench the guy
Reply


Truly was an eye opening performance. Trevor had all the opportunities today and lost us the game.
Reply


Overpaid and underperforming. Fixing to be a long 5 years with this guy.

We're basically a very poor man's version of the 49ers team that Baalke built over a decade ago.

Khan needs to clean house by the end of December. Seen enough of this [BLEEP]. Tired of it.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk
[Image: 4SXW6gC.png]

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."
Reply


After we gave Bortles his contract in 2017, we fired him the year after, right? How long were we stuck footing the Bortles bill after he was cut? I imagine we are going to do something similar with Trevor.
Reply

We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today!



(09-29-2024, 04:18 PM)Newton Wrote: Truly was an eye opening performance. Trevor had all the opportunities today and lost us the game.

That's crazy.

We should have kicked the field goal or not run the guy who ran 50 yards on the next play and that killing the clock drive they should have just ran 3 times.
No Fun
Reply

(This post was last modified: 09-29-2024, 04:21 PM by Caldrac.)

Should back out of that stadium deal.

[BLEEP] him.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

(09-29-2024, 04:20 PM)nhiverson Wrote:
(09-29-2024, 04:18 PM)Newton Wrote: Truly was an eye opening performance. Trevor had all the opportunities today and lost us the game.

That's crazy.

We should have kicked the field goal or not run the guy who ran 50 yards on the next play and that killing the clock drive they should have just ran 3 times.
Makes me sick. He missed a wide open BTJ and Kirk today. Just inexcusable.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk
[Image: 4SXW6gC.png]

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."
Reply


(09-29-2024, 04:19 PM)Caldrac Wrote: Overpaid and underperforming. Fixing to be a long 5 years with this guy.

We're basically a very poor man's version of the 49ers team that Baalke built over a decade ago.

Khan needs to clean house by the end of December. Seen enough of this [BLEEP]. Tired of it.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

He's paid fine.  He's underperforming.  He's being coached by an inept coaching staff that has no idea how to use their players or how to develop them.

Lawrence had a terrible 1st half.  But the players did enough in the 2nd half to win the game.  This loss isn't on the QB.  It's on the completely inept coaching staff.  On both sides of the ball.  We're never going to get the true potential of Trevor Lawrence with this current coaching staff.

That's just the bottom line.
Reply


He is not improving. OLine was good. He has time to throw.
He is just not that good. Average at best. And very inconsistent
Reply

We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today!



(09-29-2024, 04:12 PM)enigma Wrote: CJ Stroud: 27/40 345 yards 2 TDs 0 INTs

Trevy Trev: 17/31 178 yards 2 TDs 0 INTs

The numbers don't tell the story.  You have to watch the game
Reply


Nix, Daniels and Williams are all rookies with 2 win teams at QB and we're 0 - 4 with a QB making over a quarter of a billion dollars...

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk
[Image: 4SXW6gC.png]

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."
Reply


(09-29-2024, 04:23 PM)MikePete54 Wrote: He is not improving. OLine was good. He has time to throw.
He is just not that good. Average at best. And very inconsistent

Imagine if we had a coaching staff that would build some confidence into a young, physically talented, smart QB.  

Trevor isn't great enough to carry an entire team on his shoulders.  But he's being asked to by coaches that have no idea how to use the players they have.

Why was Ferrell running routes instead of the Strange in the 3rd Quarter?  Why was Tank not given a breather after a 50 yard run, and then given the ball on the goal line after it was obvious he was gassed?  Why are we trying to feed Gabe Davis so much when it was obvious that BTJ and Kirk are the 2 main recievers?

Why are we throwing the ball with only 4 minutes to play instead of eating the clock and feeding Tank???

I know, this is the Lawrence thread.  I'm not trying to derail it.  Lawrence played bad, really bad, in the first half.  But he did good enough to win this game in the 2nd half.  This loss isn't on Lawrence.
Reply




Users browsing this thread:
15 Guest(s)

The Jungle is self-supported by showing advertisements via Google Adsense.
Please consider disabling your advertisement-blocking plugin on the Jungle to help support the site and let us grow!
We also show less advertisements to registered users, so create your account to benefit from this!
Questions or concerns about this ad? Take a screenshot and comment in the thread. We do value your feedback.


ABOUT US
The Jungle Forums is the Jaguars' biggest fan message board. Talking about the Jags since 2006, the Jungle was the team-endorsed home of all things Jaguars.

Since 2017, the Jungle is now independent of the team but still run by the same crew. We are here to support and discuss all things Jaguars and all things Duval!