Well that's a bold take.

What makes you think that and what do you determine as great?

Is it really that bold? It’s being debated even now, whereas great players are generally acknowledged as being great. 

But to answer your question, he needs to at least start by making the routine throws routinely. He needs to elevate his teammates and not have to rely on people around him to elevate his play. He needs to make the plays he’s not supposed to make and win the games he shouldn’t. If you’re wanting specific stats, I think you’re barking up the wrong tree. It’s more of a “you know it when you see it” quality. Sometimes referred to as “the it factor”. I think Patrick Mahomes is a great QB. He has bad games too and misses throws but there’s no question Trevor isn’t on that level. He’s been playing long enough now that he is what he’s putting on tape.

With that said, he’s really good when he’s on and if he develops more consistency he’ll be the best QB we’ve had here. That’s probably enough that we should be happy. No reason to make him out to be something he’s not.

I think it's bold to proclaim someone will never be great who is 25 and has already shown flashes of being great.  In Peyton Mannings 4th year, he had 4100 yards with 26 TDs and 23 interceptions. The team went 6-10, fired Jim Mora and hired Dungy the next season. I'm not sure people were saying Peyton was so great back then but they likely were wondering if he had "It". Sometimes it takes a little bit but I have no doubt in my mind that Trevor will be great.

I think there are 3 truly great QBs in the league. Lamar, Allen and Mahomes.

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Is it really that bold? It’s being debated even now, whereas great players are generally acknowledged as being great. 

But to answer your question, he needs to at least start by making the routine throws routinely. He needs to elevate his teammates and not have to rely on people around him to elevate his play. He needs to make the plays he’s not supposed to make and win the games he shouldn’t. If you’re wanting specific stats, I think you’re barking up the wrong tree. It’s more of a “you know it when you see it” quality. Sometimes referred to as “the it factor”. I think Patrick Mahomes is a great QB. He has bad games too and misses throws but there’s no question Trevor isn’t on that level. He’s been playing long enough now that he is what he’s putting on tape.

With that said, he’s really good when he’s on and if he develops more consistency he’ll be the best QB we’ve had here. That’s probably enough that we should be happy. No reason to make him out to be something he’s not.

I think it's bold to proclaim someone will never be great who is 25 and has already shown flashes of being great.  In Peyton Mannings 4th year, he had 4100 yards with 26 TDs and 23 interceptions. The team went 6-10, fired Jim Mora and hired Dungy the next season. I'm not sure people were saying Peyton was so great back then but they likely were wondering if he had "It". Sometimes it takes a little bit but I have no doubt in my mind that Trevor will be great.

I think there are 3 truly great QBs in the league. Lamar, Allen and Mahomes.

LOL if you call that flashes of being great then almost all other QBs have done the same thing. He is not special. Other young QBs have shown the same or more than Trevor.

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I am a fan, not a cheerleader.

Is it really that bold? It’s being debated even now, whereas great players are generally acknowledged as being great. 

But to answer your question, he needs to at least start by making the routine throws routinely. He needs to elevate his teammates and not have to rely on people around him to elevate his play. He needs to make the plays he’s not supposed to make and win the games he shouldn’t. If you’re wanting specific stats, I think you’re barking up the wrong tree. It’s more of a “you know it when you see it” quality. Sometimes referred to as “the it factor”. I think Patrick Mahomes is a great QB. He has bad games too and misses throws but there’s no question Trevor isn’t on that level. He’s been playing long enough now that he is what he’s putting on tape.

With that said, he’s really good when he’s on and if he develops more consistency he’ll be the best QB we’ve had here. That’s probably enough that we should be happy. No reason to make him out to be something he’s not.

I think it's bold to proclaim someone will never be great who is 25 and has already shown flashes of being great.  In Peyton Mannings 4th year, he had 4100 yards with 26 TDs and 23 interceptions. The team went 6-10, fired Jim Mora and hired Dungy the next season. I'm not sure people were saying Peyton was so great back then but they likely were wondering if he had "It". Sometimes it takes a little bit but I have no doubt in my mind that Trevor will be great.

I think there are 3 truly great QBs in the league. Lamar, Allen and Mahomes.

I didn’t say he never would, I said it’s likely he never would. He’s 25 and has been a starter since he came in. It’s unusual for someone to change who they are after they get 50 or so starts under their belt. Sure, it’s possible but it’s not typical.

It’s semantics to a degree but good players can make great plays occasionally. Great players do it with greater regularity and are able to do it most reliably when it’s most needed.

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I'm condescending. That means I talk down to you. 
Check out the Jag's Forum Alternative: Duval Football Fans.

I think it's bold to proclaim someone will never be great who is 25 and has already shown flashes of being great.  In Peyton Mannings 4th year, he had 4100 yards with 26 TDs and 23 interceptions. The team went 6-10, fired Jim Mora and hired Dungy the next season. I'm not sure people were saying Peyton was so great back then but they likely were wondering if he had "It". Sometimes it takes a little bit but I have no doubt in my mind that Trevor will be great.

I think there are 3 truly great QBs in the league. Lamar, Allen and Mahomes.

LOL if you call that flashes of being great then almost all other QBs have done the same thing. He is not special. Other young QBs have shown the same or more than Trevor.

You really don't think you've seen great flashes from Trevor? 2022 Baltimore, 2022 Dallas, 2nd half of Chargers playoff game, just about every clots game, 2023 Bengals before injury.... Those are just off the top of my head.

I'm not saying he's the best QB in the league by any means but to say he likely will never be great or hasn't shown great flashes seems a little disingenuous.

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Trevor got off to a rough start this year.

Now he's on a hot streak.

Fingers crossed he can sustain his current level of play because it's very good.

https://twitter.com/_John_Shipley/status...1915603259

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Well that's a bold take.

What makes you think that and what do you determine as great?

Is it really that bold? It’s being debated even now, whereas great players are generally acknowledged as being great. 

But to answer your question, he needs to at least start by making the routine throws routinely. He needs to elevate his teammates and not have to rely on people around him to elevate his play. He needs to make the plays he’s not supposed to make and win the games he shouldn’t. If you’re wanting specific stats, I think you’re barking up the wrong tree. It’s more of a “you know it when you see it” quality. Sometimes referred to as “the it factor”. I think Patrick Mahomes is a great QB. He has bad games too and misses throws but there’s no question Trevor isn’t on that level. He’s been playing long enough now that he is what he’s putting on tape.

With that said, he’s really good when he’s on and if he develops more consistency he’ll be the best QB we’ve had here. That’s probably enough that we should be happy. No reason to make him out to be something he’s not.

This is on of the criticisms thrown at Trevor again and again that I just find so frustrating. I get the logic, Rodgers in Green Bay was the best example. Year after year he was given UFA and guys off the street at WR and still got to the playoffs. 

Here's where I have a problem with that argument. Did Mahomes have to elevate Hill and Kelce? Did Brady have to elevate Gronk? Does Purdy have to elevate McCaffrey, Deebo and Kittle? You need to surround your top talent with top talent. Rodgers may have got to playoffs but that lack of quality WR always hurt them in the playoffs. 

Look at Trevor with BTJ. Even as a rookie, you see the difference when you give your great players another great player. They make things happen, they improve each other.

This idea that Trevor should overcome every obstacle singlehandedly and drag everyone up to a high level is why he's had his struggles. Give him great talent and watch him get better and better.

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I guess as Slim shady would say, "Would the real version of Lawrence stand up?"

Lawrence has high highs but also basement level lows. I am glad to see he has been playing better. Let us hope it stays that way.

Having that monster BJT also helps matters.

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Trevor got off to a rough start this year.

Now he's on a hot streak.

Fingers crossed he can sustain his current level of play because it's very good.

https://twitter.com/_John_Shipley/status...1915603259

The offensive line hasn't been [BLEEP] the bed, so Trevor could succeed. I doubt the line will continue to play that well as the schedule picks up, so I imagine Trevor's statistical accomplishments will decline as well.

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https://twitter.com/Demetrius82/status/1...8557746559

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LOL if you call that flashes of being great then almost all other QBs have done the same thing. He is not special. Other young QBs have shown the same or more than Trevor.

You really don't think you've seen great flashes from Trevor? 2022 Baltimore, 2022 Dallas, 2nd half of Chargers playoff game, just about every clots game, 2023 Bengals before injury.... Those are just off the top of my head.

I'm not saying he's the best QB in the league by any means but to say he likely will never be great or hasn't shown great flashes seems a little disingenuous.

I think his point is that most starting QBs can point to stretches of being great for a few games here and there. Does that make them special?

The baker mayfields of the world, I’m sure I can find a stretch of 4-5 games where Andy Dalton looked great as well.

The point is, almost every decent nfl quarterback has flashes of greatness.  Very few don’t.  I can say Gabbert has never had a 3-4 game stretch that was impressive.

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I think the point is that we are seeing the worst Trevor Lawrence can play. He's not being coached up properly. He has a coaching staff that hasn't ever figured out who is running the offense. So Lawrence looks mediocre. He flashes his greatness, but when you have a staff that is not willing to really coach up his strengths and the strengths of the rest of the offense, we get what we see.

We just aren't good enough, especially when you consider the talent at WR, TE, and RB. Folks will blame the O-Line, but I don't. The O-Line is not elite. But they are also not trash. So, it comes down to what you think about Lawrence and what you think about the coaches.

I personally think that Lawrence is the only reason we are even mediocre since last year. This team is soft/fragile, and that's not on the QB. When you have a coaching staff that can't have the balls to tell you who is the play caller, when you have a coaching staff that blames the Defensive Coordinator, and fires him to only get less production. There's something else to consider besides the QB. A QB, I may say, has been very good for the last 7 games, with the exception of the Houston Game, which we still should have won.

The Packers game is must win. Will the team be ready for it? I know Lawrence will be. But can the coaches scheme up a game plan that allows Lawrence and the rest of the team to be successful? That's where I have my doubts.

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https://twitter.com/PFF/status/1849126136153817551

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https://twitter.com/PFF/status/1849126136153817551

On two of the worst teams in the league. 

Yeah…no.

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saw a thing that said Trevor Lawrence is the most likely QB in the NFL to go with his first read.  The other QBs in that ballpark are will levis, Andy Dalton, Jayden Daniel’s, and Daniel Jones.


The QBs with the least likely to throw to their first read?

Pat Mahomes
Josh Allen
Justin Herbert
Lamar Jackson
Caleb Williams.


It’s something many of us have noticed over the years. I think if he develops in that regard we will be a much more difficult offense to defend. 

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You really don't think you've seen great flashes from Trevor? 2022 Baltimore, 2022 Dallas, 2nd half of Chargers playoff game, just about every clots game, 2023 Bengals before injury.... Those are just off the top of my head.

I'm not saying he's the best QB in the league by any means but to say he likely will never be great or hasn't shown great flashes seems a little disingenuous.

I think his point is that most starting QBs can point to stretches of being great for a few games here and there. Does that make them special?

The baker mayfields of the world, I’m sure I can find a stretch of 4-5 games where Andy Dalton looked great as well.

The point is, almost every decent nfl quarterback has flashes of greatness.  Very few don’t.  I can say Gabbert has never had a 3-4 game stretch that was impressive.

Trevor had a 17 game stretch of top 5 passing numbers and wins. Trevor has certainly shown greatness for a stretch much longer than a few games

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I think his point is that most starting QBs can point to stretches of being great for a few games here and there. Does that make them special?

The baker mayfields of the world, I’m sure I can find a stretch of 4-5 games where Andy Dalton looked great as well.

The point is, almost every decent nfl quarterback has flashes of greatness.  Very few don’t.  I can say Gabbert has never had a 3-4 game stretch that was impressive.

Trevor had a 17 game stretch of top 5 passing numbers and wins. Trevor has certainly shown greatness for a stretch much longer than a few games

Care to show me those numbers? Compared to what others were doing.

Because I think that’s revisionist history. 

He had a nice stretch but even during his best stretch his passing touchdowns weren’t that high. And he was getting a lot of help with good, complimentary football (which is what you hope for). So not a knock on him at all, but let’s see those numbers for that 17 game stretch.

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Trevor had a 17 game stretch of top 5 passing numbers and wins. Trevor has certainly shown greatness for a stretch much longer than a few games

Care to show me those numbers? Compared to what others were doing.

Because I think that’s revisionist history. 

He had a nice stretch but even during his best stretch his passing touchdowns weren’t that high. And he was getting a lot of help with good, complimentary football (which is what you hope for). So not a knock on him at all, but let’s see those numbers for that 17 game stretch.

Sure, I'll try and find the clip. It's not revisionist history it was compiled by Trevor lover Nick Wright in one of his weekly debates on ESPN regarding the Prince that was promised

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Pin point
https://twitter.com/Jaguars/status/1850607350102843737

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https://twitter.com/DanDGriffis/status/1...5445408113

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https://twitter.com/DanDGriffis/status/1...5445408113

Doesn't tell the whole story.

Two very inopportune turnovers that gifted the Packers 14 points in 1 minute and 15 seconds.

He played uncharacteristically well for his usual statistical performances - but those turnovers were the game sadly.

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