If Trevor "slid late," then it would be excusable to collide with him right after his butt hit the ground.  It still wouldn't be legal to extend your arm in a way that hits the man in the head. It goes from being a late hit and targeting to just being targeting.  Still illegal.  Still might get fined or suspended.

 slide late?  BS lame excuse for those enabling his behavior. The NFL saw it the same way I did, go read their text. Watch the video in slow motion. his initial approach would have had him skim over TL. He made a decision to drop his left shoulder and [BLEEP] his forearm to strike with his reinforced right arm. I saw that live on the field and then again when home on video. He also had to be pulled off TL.

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A new broom always sweeps clean.

If Trevor "slid late," then it would be excusable to collide with him right after his butt hit the ground.  It still wouldn't be legal to extend your arm in a way that hits the man in the head. It goes from being a late hit and targeting to just being targeting.  Still illegal.  Still might get fined or suspended.

 slide late?  BS lame excuse for those enabling his behavior. The NFL saw it the same way I did, go read their text. Watch the video in slow motion. his initial approach would have had him skim over TL. He made a decision to drop his left shoulder and [BLEEP] his forearm to strike with his reinforced right arm. I saw that live on the field and then again when home on video. He also had to be pulled off TL.

I'm agreeing with you.  I don't think he slid late.  That's why my first word is "if".

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

Yeah the NFL’s reaction to this has been overall pathetic.

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Stroud said he thinks his teammate didn't mean to hurt Trevor, not that he didn't see anything wrong with the hit. He is the leader of their team, what do you expect him to say? I hope they ban our player?.

"I have no comment on that. We will let the NFL and Shahir work out whatever punishment and be ready for our next game with or without him."

Yeah, I am sure Trevor or any other QB would say that LOL

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I am a fan, not a cheerleader.

 slide late?  BS lame excuse for those enabling his behavior. The NFL saw it the same way I did, go read their text. Watch the video in slow motion. his initial approach would have had him skim over TL. He made a decision to drop his left shoulder and [BLEEP] his forearm to strike with his reinforced right arm. I saw that live on the field and then again when home on video. He also had to be pulled off TL.

I'm agreeing with you.  I don't think he slid late.  That's why my first word is "if".

I know, just still venting ... lol  The only thing that I get really irritated at is safety of people. Ryan is culpable in this and we should not forget that as time goes on.

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A new broom always sweeps clean.

Stroud said he thinks his teammate didn't mean to hurt Trevor, not that he didn't see anything wrong with the hit. He is the leader of their team, what do you expect him to say? I hope they ban our player?.

I’m not so sure he didn’t “mean it”. The guy has a history this year of going after players out of bounds, punching them, etc 

That said I understand stroud taking the middle road on it, but Ryan actually defending it and blaming Trevor is classless.

I am pretty sure it was intentional, he goes for the head with the forearm, but again, what else can Stroud say?
And yes, Ryan is a clown.

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I am a fan, not a cheerleader.

Oh btw, Darius did even worse to Ferguson and some of you defended him, heck, some dude has that image as his avatar... and some of you are hating on Stroud for saying what he said lol.

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I am a fan, not a cheerleader.

Oh btw, Darius did even worse to Ferguson and some of you defended him, heck, some dude has that image as his avatar... and some of you are hating on Stroud for saying what he said lol.

Yea and you can include a lot of the old school linebackers as well.  knew someone was going to go here. The only hole in this is the rules were different then and players knew what was coming. Now the players expect the rules to be followed. If TL had thought in any way that was about to happen he never would have given himself up and this would not have happened.

As for Stroud, I am sure some one can get a player somewhere to do this to him. He then can make a better informed decision.

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A new broom always sweeps clean.

Oh btw, Darius did even worse to Ferguson and some of you defended him, heck, some dude has that image as his avatar... and some of you are hating on Stroud for saying what he said lol.

Yea and you can include a lot of the old school linebackers as well.  knew someone was going to go here. The only hole in this is the rules were different then and players knew what was coming. Now the players expect the rules to be followed. If TL had thought in any way that was about to happen he never would have given himself up and this would not have happened.

As for Stroud, I am sure some one can get a player somewhere to do this to him. He then can make a better informed decision.

Darius hit was illegal, he was even ejected lol.
Imagine pretty much wishing this to happen to Stroud just because he said he didn't think his teammate meant any harm.
You are pretty funny.

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I am a fan, not a cheerleader.

Yea and you can include a lot of the old school linebackers as well.  knew someone was going to go here. The only hole in this is the rules were different then and players knew what was coming. Now the players expect the rules to be followed. If TL had thought in any way that was about to happen he never would have given himself up and this would not have happened.

As for Stroud, I am sure some one can get a player somewhere to do this to him. He then can make a better informed decision.

Darius hit was illegal, he was even ejected lol.
Imagine pretty much wishing this to happen to Stroud just because he said he didn't think his teammate meant any harm.
You are pretty funny.

I didn't wish it. Up to him on that decision ... just sure someone will make it happen if he feels it is ok.

I never defended DD. He also eventually was taken out himself, which I expect will happen in this case. The players will eventually police themselves.

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A new broom always sweeps clean.

Bottom line is you can't create a rule that QBs can give themselves up by sliding which makes the player down at the start of the slide without contact which is designed to protect QBs and then not protect QBs when they are hit in that scenario. He didn't even need to be touched down. Defenders need that drilled into their head and it probably has been already which is what makes such a hit so aggravating as a fan of the injured team and player.

Also, the league should revisit the fake slide and fake going out of bounds that Mahomes and other QBs have gotten away with and consider turning that into a penalty on the offense. That is creating an awful precedent of allowing the offense to get away with really cheap extra yards either through the fake out or through a defender drawing a penalty for a personal foul. That didn't apply in this case. I saw the play live in the stadium and the replay on TV in slow motion. Trevor's [BLEEP] was headed to the ground before Al-Shaair's legs committed to launching him forward. It was 100% on Al-Shaair, but these QB fake out moves are going to eventually lead to some confused defenders who decide to just light the guy up rather than potentially be faked out. If you visibly begin the process of giving yourself up and then don't at the last second, that should be a penalty.

I don't disagree with Ryans' comments in general given the above, but they were absolute trash in this instance. It was absolutely an intentional act on Al-Shaair's part and if it truly wasn't, then he's too incompetent to be out there on the field anyway.

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I’m not so sure he didn’t “mean it”. The guy has a history this year of going after players out of bounds, punching them, etc 

That said I understand stroud taking the middle road on it, but Ryan actually defending it and blaming Trevor is classless.

I am pretty sure it was intentional, he goes for the head with the forearm, but again, what else can Stroud say?
And yes, Ryan is a clown.

He could have stood up and been a leader, instead of defending it, passing blame, etc like his coach or him just ignoring it.

He should have called him out publicly for crossing the line and putting the rest of the team at risk for being retaliated against. He should also say he, as a leader of the team, is kicking him out of the locker room. Then say in order for him to play again, he has to earn his way back on the team.

The NFL is too soft now though and I doubt any player would call out a teammate like that.

Sent from my SM-T970 using Tapatalk

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Bottom line is you can't create a rule that QBs can give themselves up by sliding which makes the player down at the start of the slide without contact which is designed to protect QBs and then not protect QBs when they are hit in that scenario.  He didn't even need to be touched down.  Defenders need that drilled into their head and it probably has been already which is what makes such a hit so aggravating as a fan of the injured team and player.

Also, the league should revisit the fake slide and fake going out of bounds that Mahomes and other QBs have gotten away with and consider turning that into a penalty on the offense.  That is creating an awful precedent of allowing the offense to get away with really cheap extra yards either through the fake out or through a defender drawing a penalty for a personal foul.  That didn't apply in this case.  I saw the play live in the stadium and the replay on TV in slow motion.  Trevor's [BLEEP] was headed to the ground before Al-Shaair's legs committed to launching him forward.  It was 100% on Al-Shaair, but these QB fake out moves are going to eventually lead to some confused defenders who decide to just light the guy up rather than potentially be faked out.  If you visibly begin the process of giving yourself up and then don't at the last second, that should be a penalty.

I don't disagree with Ryans' comments in general given the above, but they were absolute trash in this instance.  It was absolutely an intentional act on Al-Shaair's part and if it truly wasn't, then he's too incompetent to be out there on the field anyway.

Well said. Even if they don't outlaw the fakes, they can make a point to indicate that if you tend to fake, it's a lot less cut and dried to penalize the D for contact. If guys like Allen, Jackson or Mahomes want to risk contact over a few yards, they choose to put themselves under that cloud of uncertainty.

I don't think I've ever seen Trevor fake a slide or step out of bounds. There was literally zero precedent to say there was any doubt in anyone's mind that he was intending to hook slide there.

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I am pretty sure it was intentional, he goes for the head with the forearm, but again, what else can Stroud say?
And yes, Ryan is a clown.

He could have stood up and been a leader, instead of defending it, passing blame, etc like his coach or him just ignoring it.

He should have called him out publicly for crossing the line and putting the rest of the team at risk for being retaliated against. He should also say he, as a leader of the team, is kicking him out of the locker room. Then say in order for him to play again, he has to earn his way back on the team.

The NFL is too soft now though and I doubt any player would call out a teammate like that.

Sent from my SM-T970 using Tapatalk

Good luck with that.

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I do look forward to seeing Stroud getting knocked out and the whole Houston sideline standing behind the line not getting involved.

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Bottom line is you can't create a rule that QBs can give themselves up by sliding which makes the player down at the start of the slide without contact which is designed to protect QBs and then not protect QBs when they are hit in that scenario.  He didn't even need to be touched down.  Defenders need that drilled into their head and it probably has been already which is what makes such a hit so aggravating as a fan of the injured team and player.

Also, the league should revisit the fake slide and fake going out of bounds that Mahomes and other QBs have gotten away with and consider turning that into a penalty on the offense.  That is creating an awful precedent of allowing the offense to get away with really cheap extra yards either through the fake out or through a defender drawing a penalty for a personal foul.  That didn't apply in this case.  I saw the play live in the stadium and the replay on TV in slow motion.  Trevor's [BLEEP] was headed to the ground before Al-Shaair's legs committed to launching him forward.  It was 100% on Al-Shaair, but these QB fake out moves are going to eventually lead to some confused defenders who decide to just light the guy up rather than potentially be faked out.  If you visibly begin the process of giving yourself up and then don't at the last second, that should be a penalty.

I don't disagree with Ryans' comments in general given the above, but they were absolute trash in this instance.  It was absolutely an intentional act on Al-Shaair's part and if it truly wasn't, then he's too incompetent to be out there on the field anyway.

Great post. Firstly my problem with the hit is it's been known for years. When a QB slides you don't hit him. It can be tough for D players to jump out the way or not accidentally connect but that wasn't what happened. He lined Trevor up, crouched, put that arm in front and drove. It was 100% intentional. This whole nonsense about a bang bang play and did he slide late doesn't apply to this play, that's what makes me laugh with some of the ex-players. You see every week QB's sliding and not getting hit. It was a dirty play and hit. 

The fake slide is something that needs to be looked at. For me, there's only a couple that really do it and I don't like it. We've seen Mahomes run up the sideline and if the defender is full pelt he steps out, gets hit and wants a flag for a late hit. The defender slows down and he carries on and picks up more yards. That's what creates a grey area. Now the Trevor play is completely different for me to that but it allows the discussion to become clouded as people use these plays to argue against it. 

The Patriots used to bend the rules and that's what Mahomes and Allen do but they need to see the bigger picture to how that effects their fellow QBs who don't get the same protection from refs and the league.

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Bottom line is you can't create a rule that QBs can give themselves up by sliding which makes the player down at the start of the slide without contact which is designed to protect QBs and then not protect QBs when they are hit in that scenario.  He didn't even need to be touched down.  Defenders need that drilled into their head and it probably has been already which is what makes such a hit so aggravating as a fan of the injured team and player.

Also, the league should revisit the fake slide and fake going out of bounds that Mahomes and other QBs have gotten away with and consider turning that into a penalty on the offense.  That is creating an awful precedent of allowing the offense to get away with really cheap extra yards either through the fake out or through a defender drawing a penalty for a personal foul.  That didn't apply in this case.  I saw the play live in the stadium and the replay on TV in slow motion.  Trevor's [BLEEP] was headed to the ground before Al-Shaair's legs committed to launching him forward.  It was 100% on Al-Shaair, but these QB fake out moves are going to eventually lead to some confused defenders who decide to just light the guy up rather than potentially be faked out.  If you visibly begin the process of giving yourself up and then don't at the last second, that should be a penalty.

I don't disagree with Ryans' comments in general given the above, but they were absolute trash in this instance.  It was absolutely an intentional act on Al-Shaair's part and if it truly wasn't, then he's too incompetent to be out there on the field anyway.

It doesn't need to be a penalty.  Just blow the whistle when the ball carrier does anything to give the impression that they are sliding or intentionally going out of bounds.  If the whistle is late, review it and make sure the ball is spotted back where the ball carrier did the fake. At that point the ball carriers will have no reason to attempt these fakes.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

Bottom line is you can't create a rule that QBs can give themselves up by sliding which makes the player down at the start of the slide without contact which is designed to protect QBs and then not protect QBs when they are hit in that scenario.  He didn't even need to be touched down.  Defenders need that drilled into their head and it probably has been already which is what makes such a hit so aggravating as a fan of the injured team and player.

Also, the league should revisit the fake slide and fake going out of bounds that Mahomes and other QBs have gotten away with and consider turning that into a penalty on the offense.  That is creating an awful precedent of allowing the offense to get away with really cheap extra yards either through the fake out or through a defender drawing a penalty for a personal foul.  That didn't apply in this case.  I saw the play live in the stadium and the replay on TV in slow motion.  Trevor's [BLEEP] was headed to the ground before Al-Shaair's legs committed to launching him forward.  It was 100% on Al-Shaair, but these QB fake out moves are going to eventually lead to some confused defenders who decide to just light the guy up rather than potentially be faked out.  If you visibly begin the process of giving yourself up and then don't at the last second, that should be a penalty.

I don't disagree with Ryans' comments in general given the above, but they were absolute trash in this instance.  It was absolutely an intentional act on Al-Shaair's part and if it truly wasn't, then he's too incompetent to be out there on the field anyway.

I was there as well. It was a cheap shot. He led with his arm and elbow and he used his arm with the brace on it to make sure Lawrence felt more in the receiving than he did on the dishing out end. Engram wouldn't have reacted that way had it been an accident. They all saw the same thing we saw at that game. 

That cheap shot was probably one of the worst, clearly deliberate cheap shots at a QB that I have seen since Kiko Alonso's hit on Joe Flacco a few years ago in a similar situation where Flacco actually was sliding late. Lawrence at least gave himself up in my opinion to where Al-Qaeda could have pulled up on his momentum or tagged him down. 

I agree with the fakes though. Those should be penalized, the same way you would penalize a returner if he went to make the fair catch or faked it and then decided to run with it, etc. I am still aggravated they had off setting penalties after that as well.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Bottom line is you can't create a rule that QBs can give themselves up by sliding which makes the player down at the start of the slide without contact which is designed to protect QBs and then not protect QBs when they are hit in that scenario.  He didn't even need to be touched down.  Defenders need that drilled into their head and it probably has been already which is what makes such a hit so aggravating as a fan of the injured team and player.

Also, the league should revisit the fake slide and fake going out of bounds that Mahomes and other QBs have gotten away with and consider turning that into a penalty on the offense.  That is creating an awful precedent of allowing the offense to get away with really cheap extra yards either through the fake out or through a defender drawing a penalty for a personal foul.  That didn't apply in this case.  I saw the play live in the stadium and the replay on TV in slow motion.  Trevor's [BLEEP] was headed to the ground before Al-Shaair's legs committed to launching him forward.  It was 100% on Al-Shaair, but these QB fake out moves are going to eventually lead to some confused defenders who decide to just light the guy up rather than potentially be faked out.  If you visibly begin the process of giving yourself up and then don't at the last second, that should be a penalty.

I don't disagree with Ryans' comments in general given the above, but they were absolute trash in this instance.  It was absolutely an intentional act on Al-Shaair's part and if it truly wasn't, then he's too incompetent to be out there on the field anyway.

It doesn't need to be a penalty.  Just blow the whistle when the ball carrier does anything to give the impression that they are sliding or intentionally going out of bounds.  If the whistle is late, review it and make sure the ball is spotted back where the ball carrier did the fake.  At that point the ball carriers will have no reason to attempt these fakes.

I think it does for the reason that the QB slide is specifically allowed and designed to protect the QB.  When you then have guys using that option as a means of faking a defender out which essentially is undermining the ability of that play to offer the designed protection.  Mahomes did the fake going out of bounds and I also recently saw a clip of him scrambling up field for some decent yardage all the while he was running in a crouching stance behind and around several blockers, but his stance gave the impression that he was about to slide the entire time he was running up field.  Basically it doesn't allow the defense to properly treat the QB as a runner because he's threatening to drop his buttocks at any moment.  I think we can all agree this easily creates scenarios that are in direct opposition to the intended spirit of the QB slide rule.  It should be a penalty.  Either you're a runner or you're giving yourself up.  If there's no penalty and no risk to making the attempted fake out by putting the onus on the official to properly interpret the fake, then they will continue.  If it becomes a penalty, you'll probably never see a fake slide or fake running out of bounds again which is what we should all want.

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