total QBR for this year so far:

Lawrence ranks 16th: (meh) https://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr

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How much sway do y'all think Lawrence has on Khan regarding Pederson and Baalke staying? And then would he use it?

If they end up staying (yes the horror), how much blames falls on Lawrence for not convincing Khan?

I know that isn't his job, and technically he is lower on the org chart.

But if T-Law is going to become anything that we hope he will become, he would need to have the football IQ and smarts to recognize that the current system and roster management is not working. Plus the confidence to say what needs to be said to help the franchise in the long run.

Sure that doesn't make up for his mediocre play on the field. But that is an element of leadership that elite QB's often have, even if it is mostly behind the scenes.

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How much sway do y'all think Lawrence has on Khan regarding Pederson and Baalke staying? And then would he use it?

If they end up staying (yes the horror), how much blames falls on Lawrence for not convincing Khan?

I know that isn't his job, and technically he is lower on the org chart.

But if T-Law is going to become anything that we hope he will become, he would need to have the football IQ and smarts to recognize that the current system and roster management is not working. Plus the confidence to say what needs to be said to help the franchise in the long run.

Sure that doesn't make up for his mediocre play on the field. But that is an element of leadership that elite QB's often have, even if it is mostly behind the scenes.

This has been something I've wrestled with for a while. Outwardly, Trevor hasn't put anyone on blast, be it Urban, Doug, linemen, receivers, nobody.  I don't know if he's different in private quarters. I don't want him to be A. A. Ron and force the team to make personnel moves, but I think Shad certainly needs to sit down with him to get a meaningful read on how Doug runs the show and what the locker room vibe is like.

I think he'll give an honest response, but I don't think he will assert to the point of demanding a firing (or demanding anyone be retained, for that matter).

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I was going to say that it's above his pay grade, but...

While I think it's certainly appropriate for his opinion to be taken into account as part of the decision making process and even a new hire search, that's very different than taking responsibility and assuming blame when it doesn't go right. While the QB position is generally the closest to coaches in terms of skill set and understanding of the overall game, that doesn't mean he has the wherewithal to select a coach/GM amongst the pool of options. While it certainly happens here and there, take a look at Peyton Manning who most would agree is one the most cerebral QBs. He's chose broadcasting (and other TV events) rather than dig in to coaching.

We as fans tend to think that the talent selection by a GM (within the salary cap) and coaching a team is WAY WAY easier than it really is. Even the 'bad' NFL GMs and coaches are amongst an absolutely elite group of people. As an example, look at the draft. Despite having the best-of-the-best scouting staff and an enormous amount of resources they're only right 50% of the time on average. Being right %60 of the time would make you a star.

To get back to your point, it's easy to see what's NOT working. Figuring out all the minutiae in a very complex game, not to mention having the right amount of luck on your side to consistently win is hard.

The other point, is no one really wants a QB that tries to get their own GM and coach fired at the end of the day.

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NYC4jags Wrote:
Can we leave the personal insults behind for a while and get back to some semblance of topic, gents?
Please, and thank you.

I was going to say that it's above his pay grade, but...

While I think it's certainly appropriate for his opinion to be taken into account as part of the decision making process and even a new hire search, that's very different than taking responsibility and assuming blame when it doesn't go right.  While the QB position is generally the closest to coaches in terms of skill set and understanding of the overall game, that doesn't mean he has the wherewithal to select a coach/GM amongst the pool of options.  While it certainly happens here and there, take a look at Peyton Manning who most would agree is one the most cerebral QBs.  He's chose broadcasting (and other TV events) rather than dig in to coaching.

We as fans tend to think that the talent selection by a GM (within the salary cap) and coaching a team is WAY WAY easier than it really is.  Even the 'bad' NFL GMs and coaches are amongst an absolutely elite group of people. As an example, look at the draft. Despite having the best-of-the-best scouting staff and an enormous amount of resources they're only right 50% of the time on average.  Being right %60 of the time would make you a star.

To get back to your point, it's easy to see what's NOT working.  Figuring out all the minutiae in a very complex game, not to mention having the right amount of luck on your side to consistently win is hard.

The other point, is no one really wants a QB that tries to get their own GM and coach fired at the end of the day.

Your first part definitely makes sense, and I would agree him picking a coach/GM is probably too much. But like he should be able to recognize this isn't working and let Khan know that.

As to no one wants a QB that gets their GM/coach fired. Sure that would normally be an issue, but the entire league and media think both deserve to be fired and no one will stand up for Baalke anywhere.

Plus if the next coach fails, there is a high likelihood Trevor is also gone at that point. Because if Trevor is good to great over the next 3 years, the team will be good enough that the next coach is not getting fired by Khan who likes stability and gives people way too many chances.

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You can't blame Lawrence for the absolute franchise failure that occurred after 2022. The GM and the coaches thought they were beyond reproach. As flsprtgod mentioned in 2022 and 2023, the offensive line needed to be fixed. WE all saw it.
I was wrong in thinking that the coaching staff could fix the issues. But it's obvious that the player acquisition and player development are both trash.

We couldn't get short yardage in 2022. And 2 seasons later we still can't get short yardage. (Edit: Same goes for our Red Zone efficiency) The play calling, route designs, and overall game plan has been suspect even when we were winning in 2023. And we've witnessed a continuous downward spiral.

The QB isn't the problem. The problem is where Baalke is drafting players and the bigger problem is that the coaches have no idea how to use these players we have. You just watch this team and you see flashes of players doing good things. But we have a staff that has no idea what they are doing. Compounded by the fact that we have a GM that has no idea how to best acquire guys that can complement the coaches. That is why we can't win games.

We're completely dysfunctional. In the absolute worst way. Lawrence has never been the problem. He was the guy that has kept us at least slightly relevant. But we have a GM and a HC that are clearly at odds with each other. The only solution is to keep Lawrence and wipe the entire Coaching and GM staff clean.

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total QBR for this year so far:

Lawrence ranks 16th: (meh) https://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr

He was 10th before his shoulder injury.

Before his injury, he was in the top 10 for QBR, Adjusted EPA, Touchdown Passes, Passing Yards, Passing First Downs and Yards/Completion.

All while being at the top of the list in drops, an OL that was up and down and a Run game that was non existent for the most part.

As well as having a Defense that ranked in the bottom of the league in basically every stat.

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total QBR for this year so far:

Lawrence ranks 16th: (meh) https://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr

He was 10th before his shoulder injury.

Before his injury, he was in the top 10 for QBR, Adjusted EPA, Touchdown Passes, Passing Yards, Passing First Downs and Yards/Completion.

All that says to me is shoulda, woulda, coulda.  Some guys get the injury bug and can't stay healthy.

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He was 10th before his shoulder injury.

Before his injury, he was in the top 10 for QBR, Adjusted EPA, Touchdown Passes, Passing Yards, Passing First Downs and Yards/Completion.

All that says to me is shoulda, woulda, coulda.  Some guys get the injury bug and can't stay healthy.

Sorry I'm just speaking the facts of the matter. I know you don't like to hear the truth though.

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He was 10th before his shoulder injury.

Before his injury, he was in the top 10 for QBR, Adjusted EPA, Touchdown Passes, Passing Yards, Passing First Downs and Yards/Completion.

All that says to me is shoulda, woulda, coulda.  Some guys get the injury bug and can't stay healthy.

Like who?  

Stafford?  Mayfield?  Heck even Payton Manning had a neck injury and was considered washed and he wound up winning another SB and getting to another.  Your analysis about "staying healthy" is total bul [BLEEP].  You're just assuming something based on your own pre-determined bias of the current player you are criticizing.  It's pretty obvious.

You're just pulling things out your backside in order to bury a QB that is better than any other QB this team has ever had since Brunell.  And then you start a thread about how Mac Jones is the QB we always needed?

You're out of your mind.

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unforttantly  the game he played in vs texans was his last game. he will announce his retirement early.

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snowwolf titans owner in madden.

note titans owner means im undeafted againest them. 

oh, I forgot to mention that Brock Purdy has had several shoulder injuries since his rookie year. I guess he's washed out too?

Troy Aikman had several concussions. God forbid Trevor spends 10 years playing at the level Aikman did... There are so many lists of QBs that started off slow but turned things around. You know what the key point was? It was the coaching and the players that surrounded the QB.

Crazy, right?

Trevor Lawrence has never been the problem of this franchise. I, stupidly, thought that it was just the OC. But nope, I was wrong. It was the HC and the GM the whole time. But now that we all know the problem, why not clean house and support the only QB we have that can make things better?

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All that says to me is shoulda, woulda, coulda.  Some guys get the injury bug and can't stay healthy.

Sorry I'm just speaking the facts of the matter. I know you don't like to hear the truth though.

The truth is he finished 16th and you put him 10th with stipulations.

I want to use your logic in life. The Jaguars would win the Super bowl if they just did not lose games.

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All that says to me is shoulda, woulda, coulda.  Some guys get the injury bug and can't stay healthy.

Like who?  

Stafford?  Mayfield?  Heck even Payton Manning had a neck injury and was considered washed and he wound up winning another SB and getting to another.  Your analysis about "staying healthy" is total bul [BLEEP].  You're just assuming something based on your own pre-determined bias of the current player you are criticizing.  It's pretty obvious.

You're just pulling things out your backside in order to bury a QB that is better than any other QB this team has ever had since Brunell.  And then you start a thread about how Mac Jones is the QB we always needed?

You're out of your mind.

Your just too blind or too slow to see the truth. Quote me on this and if it happens, I want an apology. The Jaguars will have or either be looking for a new starting Qb in less than 3 years.

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Sorry I'm just speaking the facts of the matter. I know you don't like to hear the truth though.

The truth is he finished 16th and you put him 10th with stipulations.

I want to use your logic in life. The Jaguars would win the Super bowl if they just did not lose games.

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Like who?  

Stafford?  Mayfield?  Heck even Payton Manning had a neck injury and was considered washed and he wound up winning another SB and getting to another.  Your analysis about "staying healthy" is total bul [BLEEP].  You're just assuming something based on your own pre-determined bias of the current player you are criticizing.  It's pretty obvious.

You're just pulling things out your backside in order to bury a QB that is better than any other QB this team has ever had since Brunell.  And then you start a thread about how Mac Jones is the QB we always needed?

You're out of your mind.

Your just too blind or too slow to see the truth. Quote me on this and if it happens, I want an apology. The Jaguars will have or either be looking for a new starting Qb in less than 3 years.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6kRqnfsBEc

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3 years? That's a yada yada yada!

Maybe you should go and figure out another escape plan. Wolf 359 might be a good starting point.

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total QBR for this year so far:

Lawrence ranks 16th: (meh) https://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr

He was 10th before his shoulder injury.

Before his injury, he was in the top 10 for QBR, Adjusted EPA, Touchdown Passes, Passing Yards, Passing First Downs and Yards/Completion.

All while being at the top of the list in drops, an OL that was up and down and a Run game that was non existent for the most part.

As well as having a Defense that ranked in the bottom of the league in basically every stat.

I think you need to start strongly considering the likelihood that Trevor isn't as good as you think he is and the coaching staff already knows this. Everything about their body language, press conference responses, and offensive scheme says as much.

Ask yourself this, why don't we work the middle of the field? Because they don't trust Trevor's inaccuracy and overthrows. That's why we work the sidelines so much.  Doug has been critical of Trevor going back to last year. Compare that to how he talks about the O-line. Remember the games last year where Trevor threw those horrible passes in the endzone, one which was picked and several which should have been and he got lucky? And the fumbles. Jfc the fumbles.

I think this coaching staff sees Trevor every day, and has to limit their playbook based on his deficiencies, but of course they can't say that. So the offense has to scheme around a bad O-line and a QB that makes bad decisions and has poor accuracy at times. We need to stop saying "Press/Trent/Doug bad, Trevor good" and maybe start considering that Trevor isn't the guy either.

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He was 10th before his shoulder injury.

Before his injury, he was in the top 10 for QBR, Adjusted EPA, Touchdown Passes, Passing Yards, Passing First Downs and Yards/Completion.

All while being at the top of the list in drops, an OL that was up and down and a Run game that was non existent for the most part.

As well as having a Defense that ranked in the bottom of the league in basically every stat.

I think you need to start strongly considering the likelihood that Trevor isn't as good as you think he is and the coaching staff already knows this. Everything about their body language, press conference responses, and offensive scheme says as much.

Ask yourself this, why don't we work the middle of the field? Because they don't trust Trevor's inaccuracy and overthrows. That's why we work the sidelines so much.  Doug has been critical of Trevor going back to last year. Compare that to how he talks about the O-line. Remember the games last year where Trevor threw those horrible passes in the endzone, one which was picked and several which should have been and he got lucky? And the fumbles. Jfc the fumbles.

I think this coaching staff sees Trevor every day, and has to limit their playbook based on his deficiencies, but of course they can't say that. So the offense has to scheme around a bad O-line and a QB that makes bad decisions and has poor accuracy at times. We need to stop saying "Press/Trent/Doug bad, Trevor good" and maybe start considering that Trevor isn't the guy either.

So much speculation.  You have no idea what you're talking about.  You're just interpreting things based on your own hatred.  Tell me, one time.  One time where you thought Tervor isn't the guy.  Name one moment when you thought that Trevor was a trash QB.  Was it when the entire team couldn't get a first down with 1 yard?  Was it when all his WRs couldn't catch a ball, so he had to throw up a money ball?  Was it when the entire team always let him down???  Was it when Doug Pederson constantly threw him under the bus?  What it when Baalke failed to provide a respectible O-Line to protect the franchise QB?

It's so annoying having to defend a QB that has been completely betrayed by a trash HC/OC and GM.  

There is proof that Lawrence is a franchise QB.  Yeah, Pederson and Press are garbage coaches.  Lawrence has been carrying this trash franchise in spite of this terrible management.  Matter of fact, I would bet money that if Lawrence was given a good HC that was willing to actually do hard work and a GM that wasn't a cancer to the franchise, we'd be a Super Bowl contender.

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I think you need to start strongly considering the likelihood that Trevor isn't as good as you think he is and the coaching staff already knows this. Everything about their body language, press conference responses, and offensive scheme says as much.

Ask yourself this, why don't we work the middle of the field? Because they don't trust Trevor's inaccuracy and overthrows. That's why we work the sidelines so much.  Doug has been critical of Trevor going back to last year. Compare that to how he talks about the O-line. Remember the games last year where Trevor threw those horrible passes in the endzone, one which was picked and several which should have been and he got lucky? And the fumbles. Jfc the fumbles.

I think this coaching staff sees Trevor every day, and has to limit their playbook based on his deficiencies, but of course they can't say that. So the offense has to scheme around a bad O-line and a QB that makes bad decisions and has poor accuracy at times. We need to stop saying "Press/Trent/Doug bad, Trevor good" and maybe start considering that Trevor isn't the guy either.

So much speculation.  You have no idea what you're talking about.  You're just interpreting things based on your own hatred.  Tell me, one time.  One time where you thought Tervor isn't the guy.  Name one moment when you thought that Trevor was a trash QB.  Was it when the entire team couldn't get a first down with 1 yard?  Was it when all his WRs couldn't catch a ball, so he had to throw up a money ball?  Was it when the entire team always let him down???  Was it when Doug Pederson constantly threw him under the bus?  What it when Baalke failed to provide a respectible O-Line to protect the franchise QB?

It's so annoying having to defend a QB that has been completely betrayed by a trash HC/OC and GM.  

There is proof that Lawrence is a franchise QB.  Yeah, Pederson and Press are garbage coaches.  Lawrence has been carrying this trash franchise in spite of this terrible management.  Matter of fact, I would bet money that if Lawrence was given a good HC that was willing to actually do hard work and a GM that wasn't a cancer to the franchise, we'd be a Super Bowl contender.

I wrote this as a response in another thread:

After he was selected in the draft, no one on this board was expecting Trevor to only break the passer rating of 90 once in his first four years.  His passer rating this year puts him at 27th in the QB list, and his completion percentage of 60.6% puts him at 31st.  The 60.6% is only .7% higher than his rookie year.

If you look at the fact that he has an upgraded (not great, good, or average but upgraded) Oline in 2024 and finally has a clear #1 receiver in Brian Thomas Jr. yet his 2024 stats went down from 2023 HAS to affect a non-biased opinion of his performance.

This isn't speculation, these are yearly numbers.  Making a decisive statement "Trevor Lawrence has never been the problem of this franchise" can't be warranted after seeing these numbers.  And don't forget that 2023 wasn't a great year for Trevor.  Most people were expecting Trevor to carry his momentum from the last half of 2022, but it didn't happen.  And I'll happily admit that in 2022 he looked like he was rounding into shape...the problem was that was 2 years ago, before 2 seasons of decline (1 1/2 if you'd like due to the shoulder injury.)

Yes, I think the Jags GM and HC both need to go, but that fact doesn't put Trevor in the clear.

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NYC4jags Wrote:
Can we leave the personal insults behind for a while and get back to some semblance of topic, gents?
Please, and thank you.

He was 10th before his shoulder injury.

Before his injury, he was in the top 10 for QBR, Adjusted EPA, Touchdown Passes, Passing Yards, Passing First Downs and Yards/Completion.

All while being at the top of the list in drops, an OL that was up and down and a Run game that was non existent for the most part.

As well as having a Defense that ranked in the bottom of the league in basically every stat.

I think you need to start strongly considering the likelihood that Trevor isn't as good as you think he is and the coaching staff already knows this. Everything about their body language, press conference responses, and offensive scheme says as much.

Ask yourself this, why don't we work the middle of the field? Because they don't trust Trevor's inaccuracy and overthrows. That's why we work the sidelines so much.  Doug has been critical of Trevor going back to last year. Compare that to how he talks about the O-line. Remember the games last year where Trevor threw those horrible passes in the endzone, one which was picked and several which should have been and he got lucky? And the fumbles. Jfc the fumbles.

I think this coaching staff sees Trevor every day, and has to limit their playbook based on his deficiencies, but of course they can't say that. So the offense has to scheme around a bad O-line and a QB that makes bad decisions and has poor accuracy at times. We need to stop saying "Press/Trent/Doug bad, Trevor good" and maybe start considering that Trevor isn't the guy either.

Well one good reason they restrict passing in the middle is the rush normally is coming up the middle and a tipped ball over the middle is trouble with a capital T. We have seen all QB's good, bad or ugly not have a lot of success when the defense speeds up their internal clock. Brady, Manning(s) all of them are the same way. Now is Trevor good? We will find out as the seasons progress. He is going to be here whether we are or not. So you can gripe all you want. I have been a season ticket holder since the beginning. I go to the games and think he is the best we have had in a long time.

I understand your opinion we all have one. Mine is when everything is rolling Doug's offense will average 21-22 points per game. That is good for 16th-20th in the league. Currently we are at 26th averaging 18.  There are many issues causing this under performance by players and coaches. The QB while contributing is far from the biggest issue.

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A new broom always sweeps clean.

Another stupid narritive is "hatred" label of Lawrence for those of us who criticize him and do not drink the kool aid.

I will speak for myself. I wish he was as good as many of you who slobber all over his jockcl claim . I wish all the excuses being made for his lack of success was valid. I wish I didn't see other Qbs in the league who does more with less. I wish I didn't know the current Jaguars would be a playoff team in this very weak divison if we had a sold Qb.

Those things aren't true. Do you know what will shut people like me up? If he played like a good starter and had many more good games than bad. Since going 8-3 last year, Lawrence has been terrible overall. The 2 concussions in about a year's time is also a Giant Red Flag. The reality is he has never lived up to the hype outside of that magic playoff run.

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We may as well start the tank for arch manning

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