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Let's Talk About: The Middle East Edition

#41

https://x.com/dunnrightpodcst/status/193...YXMZg&s=19
[Image: 4SXW6gC.png]

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."
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#42

I guess they pissed him off.
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#43

(06-24-2025, 07:13 PM)Caldrac Wrote: https://x.com/dunnrightpodcst/status/193...YXMZg&s=19

He's right. They've been going at each other for so long that they resemble a couple of siblings who can't stand to let the other one have the last word.
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#44

(06-25-2025, 09:28 AM)homebiscuit Wrote:
(06-24-2025, 07:13 PM)Caldrac Wrote: https://x.com/dunnrightpodcst/status/193...YXMZg&s=19

He's right. They've been going at each other for so long that they resemble a couple of siblings who can't stand to let the other one have the last word.

It was refreshing to see that. He's trying to resolve this as quickly as possible and he's holding our ally accountable for their actions. Being undermined like that is frustrating for anybody. His comment is one of the few things I have seen most talking heads agree on. We're not used to seeing that here in regards to Israel.

At some point though. Something has to give. Especially with the Oil situation becoming a looming problem with Iran. We're trying to get China involved now to reason with Iran as it almost exclusively impacts them as much as it does everyone else globally. Interesting chess match.
[Image: 4SXW6gC.png]

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."
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#45

The press conference just held by the Pentagon with the SecDef and the JCS was impressive. They revealed that the construction of Fordow has been monitored from its very beginning, and we have been working since then to design the bomb that was used to destroy it. Pretty wild about the depth of intelligence we have on these facilities.
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#46

[Image: 511322302-1679481002736903-8964274386280866976-n.jpg]
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#47

‘Boatload’ Of Iranians Caught Trying To Enter The U.S.

A “boatload” of Iranians were intercepted after attempting to enter the United States via the Bahamas.

The revelation, reported by Rep. Anna Paulina Luna (R-FL), comes after Iran threatened vengeance in reaction to the U.S. assaults on Sunday, which destroyed three nuclear enrichment sites. In a statement, the Florida Republican stated that the possibility of “sleeper cell” strikes by Iranian operatives is genuine.

“Am I concerned about sleeper cells? Absolutely. This is NOT a conspiracy theory; it’s a serious national security threat,” she told Florida’s Voice News.

The number of individuals on the boat remains unknown, and it’s unclear if their dispatch coincided with the assaults.

However, opponents of former President Joe Biden have previously pointed to the previous administration’s lax border security and asylum policy, which allowed more than 1,200 Iranian nationals to enter the United States over four years.

https://conservativebrief.com/iranians-caught-92556/
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#48

(06-26-2025, 10:26 PM)The Drifter Wrote: ‘Boatload’ Of Iranians Caught Trying To Enter The U.S.

A “boatload” of Iranians were intercepted after attempting to enter the United States via the Bahamas.

The revelation, reported by Rep. Anna Paulina Luna (R-FL), comes after Iran threatened vengeance in reaction to the U.S. assaults on Sunday, which destroyed three nuclear enrichment sites. In a statement, the Florida Republican stated that the possibility of “sleeper cell” strikes by Iranian operatives is genuine.

“Am I concerned about sleeper cells? Absolutely. This is NOT a conspiracy theory; it’s a serious national security threat,” she told Florida’s Voice News.

The number of individuals on the boat remains unknown, and it’s unclear if their dispatch coincided with the assaults.

However, opponents of former President Joe Biden have previously pointed to the previous administration’s lax border security and asylum policy, which allowed more than 1,200 Iranian nationals to enter the United States over four years.

https://conservativebrief.com/iranians-caught-92556/

Now that Judges can no longer interfere with the feds deporting this should be addressed over time.
A new broom always sweeps clean.
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#49

(06-26-2025, 09:20 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: The press conference just held by the Pentagon with the SecDef and the JCS was impressive. They revealed that the construction of Fordow has been monitored from its very beginning, and we have been working since then to design the bomb that was used to destroy it. Pretty wild about the depth of intelligence we have on these facilities.

It's pretty amazing when we use the CIA and other agencies to do the quiet work with effect. OIF and OEF could've been handled so much better than they were if we'd used agencies and Spec Ops the way they were designed for.
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#50

(06-27-2025, 03:00 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote:
(06-26-2025, 09:20 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: The press conference just held by the Pentagon with the SecDef and the JCS was impressive. They revealed that the construction of Fordow has been monitored from its very beginning, and we have been working since then to design the bomb that was used to destroy it. Pretty wild about the depth of intelligence we have on these facilities.

It's pretty amazing when we use the CIA and other agencies to do the quiet work with effect. OIF and OEF could've been handled so much better than they were if we'd used agencies and Spec Ops the way they were designed for.

Absolutely. 
The military is for breaking things, and the CIA is for breaking institutions. 
OEF and OIF had a mission to build things and institutions, and I don't think we have a government institution capable of that in places where people still have tribal affiliation.
My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.
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#51

(06-27-2025, 05:48 PM)mikesez Wrote:
(06-27-2025, 03:00 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: It's pretty amazing when we use the CIA and other agencies to do the quiet work with effect. OIF and OEF could've been handled so much better than they were if we'd used agencies and Spec Ops the way they were designed for.

Absolutely. 
The military is for breaking things, and the CIA is for breaking institutions. 
OEF and OIF had a mission to build things and institutions, and I don't think we have a government institution capable of that in places where people still have tribal affiliation.

That would be a very long process. A generation, at the minimum. Deeply entrenched religious dogma enabled by enforced ignorance is a tougher nut to crack than ideological overthrow. Sometimes I wonder if Afghanistan is doomed to remain humanity's backwater. Britain, the Soviet Union, and the U.S. have tried in vain to effect change and establish dominance in that region and left defeated.
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#52

(06-27-2025, 06:17 PM)homebiscuit Wrote:
(06-27-2025, 05:48 PM)mikesez Wrote: Absolutely. 
The military is for breaking things, and the CIA is for breaking institutions. 
OEF and OIF had a mission to build things and institutions, and I don't think we have a government institution capable of that in places where people still have tribal affiliation.

That would be a very long process. A generation, at the minimum. Deeply entrenched religious dogma enabled by enforced ignorance is a tougher nut to crack than ideological overthrow. Sometimes I wonder if Afghanistan is doomed to remain humanity's backwater. Britain, the Soviet Union, and the U.S. have tried in vain to effect change and establish dominance in that region and left defeated.

It’s kind of ironic that the religion responsible for the radical and deeply entrenched ideology that you are talking about is in fact the youngest of the monotheistic religious beliefs. Still more than a millennium old but the youngest none the less.
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#53

Turns out Bunker Busters work better than pallets with 150 million dollars on them!
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#54

(06-27-2025, 07:53 PM)JagsorDie Wrote:
(06-27-2025, 06:17 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: That would be a very long process. A generation, at the minimum. Deeply entrenched religious dogma enabled by enforced ignorance is a tougher nut to crack than ideological overthrow. Sometimes I wonder if Afghanistan is doomed to remain humanity's backwater. Britain, the Soviet Union, and the U.S. have tried in vain to effect change and establish dominance in that region and left defeated.

It’s kind of ironic that the religion responsible for the radical and deeply entrenched ideology that you are talking about is in fact the youngest of the monotheistic religious beliefs. Still more than a millennium old but the youngest none the less.

The other two had an enlightenment that moderated their more extreme views. The third one is fighting like Hell to not have that happen. We the West should be the catalyst for it happen.
“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

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#55

(06-29-2025, 11:52 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote:
(06-27-2025, 07:53 PM)JagsorDie Wrote: It’s kind of ironic that the religion responsible for the radical and deeply entrenched ideology that you are talking about is in fact the youngest of the monotheistic religious beliefs. Still more than a millennium old but the youngest none the less.

The other two had an enlightenment that moderated their more extreme views. The third one is fighting like Hell to not have that happen. We the West should be the catalyst for it happen.

Which is exacerbated by a major American political party climbing into bed with them.

ASRA NOMANI: How Socialist Muslims pulled off a 20-year takeover of the Democratic Party
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#56

(06-29-2025, 11:52 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote:
(06-27-2025, 07:53 PM)JagsorDie Wrote: It’s kind of ironic that the religion responsible for the radical and deeply entrenched ideology that you are talking about is in fact the youngest of the monotheistic religious beliefs. Still more than a millennium old but the youngest none the less.

The other two had an enlightenment that moderated their more extreme views. The third one is fighting like Hell to not have that happen. We the West should be the catalyst for it happen.

Not that simple. Post-enlightenment Belgium raped the Congo, for instance. Post-enlightenment England created near genocidal famine conditions in both Ireland and Bengal. 
And no, it's not the US's job to reform Islam. Islam has already been reformed and enlightened a few times.  Look at the Alevis, the Sufis, or the Ibadis. 
Again, our CIA only breaks things. It could certainly infiltrate and disband some mosques but it won't be able to create a new Muslim movement.
My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.
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#57

(06-29-2025, 09:33 PM)mikesez Wrote:
(06-29-2025, 11:52 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: The other two had an enlightenment that moderated their more extreme views. The third one is fighting like Hell to not have that happen. We the West should be the catalyst for it happen.

Not that simple. Post-enlightenment Belgium raped the Congo, for instance. Post-enlightenment England created near genocidal famine conditions in both Ireland and Bengal. 
And no, it's not the US's job to reform Islam. Islam has already been reformed and enlightened a few times.  Look at the Alevis, the Sufis, or the Ibadis. 
Again, our CIA only breaks things. It could certainly infiltrate and disband some mosques but it won't be able to create a new Muslim movement.

Neither of those describe the enlightenment of the religions were discussing. And yes, we either destroy Islam, reform Islam, or it destroys us. There aren't any other realistic options.
“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

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#58

(06-30-2025, 01:20 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote:
(06-29-2025, 09:33 PM)mikesez Wrote: Not that simple. Post-enlightenment Belgium raped the Congo, for instance. Post-enlightenment England created near genocidal famine conditions in both Ireland and Bengal. 
And no, it's not the US's job to reform Islam. Islam has already been reformed and enlightened a few times.  Look at the Alevis, the Sufis, or the Ibadis. 
Again, our CIA only breaks things. It could certainly infiltrate and disband some mosques but it won't be able to create a new Muslim movement.

Neither of those describe the enlightenment of the religions were discussing. And yes, we either destroy Islam, reform Islam, or it destroys us. There aren't any other realistic options.

Belgian actions in the Congo were particularly motivated by a Christian inspired zeal to end the slave trade and spread Christianity to the tribes there.

Skipping to an earlier part of history, the Jacobins and the Bonapartists weren't particularly Christian but they came out of both Christianity and the Enlightenment, causing millions of deaths as their ideas and their armies spread.
My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.
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#59

(06-30-2025, 02:13 PM)mikesez Wrote:
(06-30-2025, 01:20 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: Neither of those describe the enlightenment of the religions were discussing. And yes, we either destroy Islam, reform Islam, or it destroys us. There aren't any other realistic options.

Belgian actions in the Congo were particularly motivated by a Christian inspired zeal to end the slave trade and spread Christianity to the tribes there.

Skipping to an earlier part of history, the Jacobins and the Bonapartists weren't particularly Christian but they came out of both Christianity and the Enlightenment, causing millions of deaths as their ideas and their armies spread.

Ok, we can't go much further with this, but the theology of the 20th century in the two moderated Abrahamic religions looks nothing like the Islamic faith does now over 100 years later. You're confusing The Enlightenment with being enlightened, I'm not talking about a specific historical period, I'm talking about the moderating of a religion as it matured, which has happened in both the Christian and Jewish faiths but has not in Islam (and likely won't without a stringent external impetus).
“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

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#60

(06-30-2025, 04:11 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote:
(06-30-2025, 02:13 PM)mikesez Wrote: Belgian actions in the Congo were particularly motivated by a Christian inspired zeal to end the slave trade and spread Christianity to the tribes there.

Skipping to an earlier part of history, the Jacobins and the Bonapartists weren't particularly Christian but they came out of both Christianity and the Enlightenment, causing millions of deaths as their ideas and their armies spread.

Ok, we can't go much further with this, but the theology of the 20th century in the two moderated Abrahamic religions looks nothing like the Islamic faith does now over 100 years later. You're confusing The Enlightenment with being enlightened, I'm not talking about a specific historical period, I'm talking about the moderating of a religion as it matured, which has happened in both the Christian and Jewish faiths but has not in Islam (and likely won't without a stringent external impetus).

Your other error is where you describe the theology of any of the three as a monolith.
My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.
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