"qb purgatory" = bigfoot

 

Fear fueled mythology.

 

Murray would be a great developmental prospect in the middle rounds.

You and TMD keep throwing around that 'developmental prospect' QB term...I don't think you know what that means. 

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Love it!!!!!

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You and TMD keep throwing around that 'developmental prospect' QB term...I don't think you know what that means. 

Being the "pro scout" that you are, you of all people should understand development guys! Believe it or not, some guys take some time to learn the  game at the pro level! Does not mean theres anything wrong with them.

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Being the "pro scout" that you are, you of all people should understand development guys! Believe it or not, some guys take some time to learn the game at the pro level! Does not mean theres anything wrong with them.

Malarkey! Either they're a franchise QB...or purgatory at best.

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Do you really even scout anyone? Everything is purgatory with you! You have 100% no idea how he will look in 2 years, so please give up this high and mighty act.

I know he has below average size, average arm, average athleticism, and a whole lot of high level experience under his belt. Nothing about that situation screams developmental gem with lots of room to grow into a franchise QB.

 

Now, can he turn into Drew Brees? Sure, there is probably about a one half of one percent chance of that. It's far, far more likely that he becomes just an average starter/solid backup like the plethora of other QBs fitting his profile. 

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Malarkey! Either they're a franchise QB...or purgatory at best.

QB purgatory is the step right below franchise QB...that's not really a knock on the prospect it just holds the franchise hostage. 

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You and TMD keep throwing around that 'developmental prospect' QB term...I don't think you know what that means. 

 

Oh, that's rich.  If there's anyone who throws around words recklessly without understanding what they mean, it's you.

 

You don't expect a developmental QB to become a franchise caliber QB.  (Or maybe you do?)  If he does, great.  He beat the odds.

 

If all a franchise needed was a lone franchise QB, that's all teams would carry on the roster.

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"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."

Being the "pro scout" that you are, you of all people should understand development guys! Believe it or not, some guys take some time to learn the  game at the pro level! Does not mean theres anything wrong with them.

You really don't get it...why would you want to take a guy with a limited physical profile, tons of high level college experience, and who is already old for the draft. All 3 of those would hint that what you have seen is what you get. There isn't a lot of growth in that package. If you're drafting him with the idea of being a quality backup (those have value) that could be an ok short term starter than Murray is just fine. If you're drafting him hoping he's magically going to find some next gear that we haven't seen then you are going to be very disappointed. 

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QB purgatory is the step right below franchise QB...that's not really a knock on the prospect it just holds the franchise hostage. 

Peyton is in purgatory.

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I rolled on the floor laughing, With all those missed reads in the pocket Manziel had to improvise. If he had just stuck to the play book (or just be Teddy Bridgewater) A&M would have been in the National Title hunt late


 

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Trolls gonna troll. 

QB purgatory is the step right below franchise QB...that's not really a knock on the prospect it just holds the franchise hostage. 

 

False.

 

The only way the franchise is held "hostage" is if the club shuts out competition and stops bringing in candidates.

 

See: Jaguars for the prior decade.

 

OTOH, if you keep bringing in competition no franchise will become so stale at the position.

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"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."

Ninja explained it very well. Murray is dr. jekyll/mr. hyde indeed. A lot of Andy Dalton in him. When things are going good he is competent and will even confuse people into thinking he is a franchise QB. Unfortunately, when he is forced to get uncomfortable he doesn't handle it well at all. His field vision completely disappears and he makes some extremely bad reads/throws that make you wonder what the heck he was thinking or seeing when he threw the ball.

 

I think he is the perfect definition of QB purgatory. If he winds up on a good team with a good supporting cast he will probably be able to not screw things up too badly and probably even be able to 'lead' that team to the playoffs. Just like Dalton, however, it is fools gold. If you will be happy with a lot of one and done's in the playoffs (and that is if you have a very good supporting cast to begin with) then Murray is your guy. 

 

To me the ideal outcome if the Jags took him would be to hope to 'develop' him and hope he shows well in limited preseason/low leverage regular season games a year or two down the road, then try to trade him for a profit before his purgatorial traits show too much. Much like what the Redskins could have done with Cousins before they exposed him too much and killed his perceived value.

 

 

Sort of but you reversed my point. Murray actually gets anxious and jittery when things are going GOOD. He's actually at his best when things are breaking down and the outlook is bleak because it usually only gives him one choice with which he can succeed and he can do that. He gets too comfortable and starts making flashy choices instead of doing the easy things consistently. Think Jay Cutler early Denver days where he would try fitting a ball to Brandon Marshall in between 3 defenders after lacing up 3 straight stunning darts to other receivers. They get too excited and wanna start taking unneeded shots. Think Allen Iverson in basketball when he would get hot and then start putting up various off balance and ill timed shots for the 76ers.

 

Good things is that you can be coached to tone it down which is all Murray needs. Cutler learned this and has turned his career up. Brett Favre had to learn this but he still had his bouts with it. Garrard never got over this and neither has Henne. Gabbert never had it to begin with and was on the opposite end of the spectrum which is why i never had hope for him. Its possible to tell a QB to tone it down but near impossible to tell them to turn it up.  

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You really don't get it...why would you want to take a guy with a limited physical profile, tons of high level college experience, and who is already old for the draft. All 3 of those would hint that what you have seen is what you get. There isn't a lot of growth in that package. If you're drafting him with the idea of being a quality backup (those have value) that could be an ok short term starter than Murray is just fine. If you're drafting him hoping he's magically going to find some next gear that we haven't seen then you are going to be very disappointed. 

 

Yet you back the candidate you back... just wow.

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"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."

"qb purgatory" = bigfoot


Fear fueled mythology.


Murray would be a great developmental prospect in the middle rounds.

You trying to tell me bigfoot isnt real?

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Yet you back the candidate you back... just wow.

But he is unbiased.


I mean...ignore his avatar. He's as objective as they come.

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Yet you back the candidate you back... just wow.

And I would never call Teddy a developmental candidate. What you see with him is what you get, too.

 

That's exactly what I'm saying, you don't get the phrase developmental QB.  

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But he is unbiased.


I mean...ignore his avatar. He's as objective as they come.

It's true, I've watched ~100 hours of QB cutups (not to mention over 100 more of non QBs) and Teddy is comfortably alone at the top for me. Is it so unbelievable that my avatar reflects my evaluations and not my bias? 

 

And to the people quoting 'pro scout'...I have never said once. I have barely even called myself amateur draftnik and that's the farthest I have gone. There are people I talk with regularly who put in damn near 100 hours of study a week, I wouldn't shame them by calling myself even a full fledged draftnik. That said, I do believe I have proven more than enough on here that people know not to call me biased. 

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It's true, I've watched ~100 hours of QB cutups (not to mention over 100 more of non QBs) and Teddy is comfortably alone at the top for me. Is it so unbelievable that my avatar reflects my evaluations and not my bias?

Evaluations are opinions. Opinions are biases.


Is that so hard for you to understand?


Your problem, along with being moderately smug and condescending, is that you don't realize you're in the same boat as the rest of us.

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It's true, I've watched ~100 hours of QB cutups (not to mention over 100 more of non QBs) and Teddy is comfortably alone at the top for me. Is it so unbelievable that my avatar reflects my evaluations and not my bias? 

 

And to the people quoting 'pro scout'...I have never said once. I have barely even called myself amateur draftnik and that's the farthest I have gone. There are people I talk with regularly who put in damn near 100 hours of study a week, I wouldn't shame them by calling myself even a full fledged draftnik. That said, I do believe I have proven more than enough on here that people know not to call me biased. 

Gene watched over 100 hours of game tape and went and seen the players play in person, whats your point?  Maybe you just don't have the eye for it!  Gene

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Evaluations are opinions. Opinions are biases.


Is that so hard for you to understand?


Your problem, along with being moderately smug and condescending, is that you don't realize you're in the same boat as the rest of us.

Opinions in no way have to be biased...c'mon now. 

 

And no, to be honest I don't think I'm in the same boat as everyone on here. I think I would be pretty accurate in saying I do more draft study in a week than most people on here do for the entire draft. It's just like I said earlier I woudn't say I'm in the same boat as some of my friends (if I could really even call them friends) that put in nearly 100 hours of draft work a week. 

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I've said this before in other threads, but I dont believe Murray is the guy you take in the mid-late rounds with the hope that he develops into a future average to above average starting QB.  I dont believe he has the physical skills required to be that guy.  Below average height, average arm, average athleticism.  Great college QB no doubt.  But there have been many great college QBs that didnt have the physical tools necessary.  I think the odds of him turning into a Drew Brees is next to nothing.

 

Thats not to say you shouldnt draft him.  If he want a guy who will probably make a great backup, will be able to read defenses from the sideline and maybe spot something that starting QB hasnt seen, a great locker room guy, a guy good enough to hold down the fort and win a game or two when the starter is hurt, etc, etc... then he'd be a great pickup.  And who knows, maybe that 0.01% chance that he turns into Drew Brees actually happens and you hit the jackpot.

 

If you are drafting a mid-late round QB solely for the hope that he turns into a legitimate starting QB, I think you need to look more towards a Mettenberger.  Or a Savage.  The chance they turn into that legitimate starting QB is probably 1% so again not likely, but probably better than Murray.

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Scouting well is all that matters.  Draft philosophy is all fluff.