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JagsorDie · 05-09-2014, 01:25 AM

Quote:Perhaps it is a good idea to sit Bortles even if he's a better option than Henne. Just seems weird as recent history shows rookie QBs can indeed start and succeed

and i agree... just not in jax lol... maybe he blows them away like wilson did in seattle... im all for that..if he is ready, he is ready.. but for me, there better not be a shadow of a doubt he is at that point, otherwise,groom em... we are finally in a position to be picky, lets do it lol.

SuperJville · 05-09-2014, 01:29 AM

The recent rookie success stories were almost all surrounded by really good teams. I highly doubt Wilson would have looked as good as he did if he was put on our roster 2 years ago.

***FBT*** · 05-09-2014, 01:35 AM

Quote:However, it wasnt due to the player.

His concern was that Bortles has absolutely NOTHING around him in terms of help on either side of the ball, and putting the 3rd overall pick in a situation like that is not good.

I heard this, and I just dismissed it. He's acting like the draft is over and we won't be adding any additional players to the roster. We have 10 picks left, and a ton of cap to work with. I'm confident the supporting cast will improve between now and when he eventually assumes the starting role.

Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

JagsorDie · 05-09-2014, 01:46 AM

Quote:I heard this, and I just dismisses it. He's acting like the draft is over and we won't be adding any additional players to the roster. We have 10 picks left, and a ton of cap to work with. I'm confident the supporting cast will improve between now and when he eventually assumes the starting role.

by sunday, we will have alot of those answers...kurt is just doin what he gets paid to do, act like he knows exactly what he is talkin about... even if he doesnt.

***FBT*** · 05-09-2014, 01:53 AM

Quote:by sunday, we will have alot of those answers...kurt is just doin what he gets paid to do, act like he knows exactly what he is talkin about... even if he doesnt.

They'll be tweaking this roster through opening day and beyond.

Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

JagsorDie · 05-09-2014, 02:03 AM

Quote:They'll be tweaking this roster through opening day and beyond.

no doubt about it... but our 11picks and a majority of our udfa should be in sunday... cant wait to see what dave does tomoro and sat... i mean with the sanders and robinson picks late last year, i feel like this guy can find interesting picks even late.... i watched those two last year more than i watched any 4th/5th round guys in thier rookie season.

LMD · 05-09-2014, 04:52 AM

Quote:I kinda hope that too. The only problem with two rookie QBs at this point is that if Henne is out due to injury, you are throwing an unprepared rookie in behind a depleted offense either way.

Toss the other rookie in there. If he does well, you've either found your "backup of the future" or you can try to Rob Johnson/Matt Schuab him.

If he's bad, keep working to develop him or move on in the off-season.

If he gets destroyed by opposing team's defenses and hit every time he drops back, we'll all probably feel a bit better that its him out there instead of Bortles anyway.

"The season's not over... we still have a bunch of games to lose..." - TemporaryName

"The middle of the field is like Narnia to us, we don't believe it really exists" - Marvsin

Predator · 05-09-2014, 05:25 AM

Quote:There are two things we have now, that we didn't have with Gabbert.

#1. A 2nd round pick.

and

#2. A Coach who's not on the hot seat, trying to save his career by throwing a rookie QB into the fire.

Don't blame the coach, blame the GM for putting the coach in that awkward position by leaving him a 3rd string caliber QB to rely on in a situation where his job was on the line.

At least this regime had the sense to plan accordingly to allow a QB to sit.

sublime92 · 05-09-2014, 05:27 AM

Quote:Gabbert never won the job. He was handed it through injury, desperation, and curiousity.

Story of my love life

Jungle Cat · 05-09-2014, 05:42 AM

Quote:Question is, what's the best way to get him help?

One idea I am kicking around involves Buffalo.

The Bills have completely stocked up in a lot of WRs.They just traded up for Sammy Watkins. Earlier, they traded for Mike Williams (formerly of the Bucs). They have Stevie Johnson, and in the last year or two, they drafted Robert Woods, Marquise Goodman and T.J. Graham.

I have to think that one of those guys are going to go.

I'm thinking they may try to deal Stevie Johnson.

Problem for Buffalo is, this is a deep WR draft. I think they could end up cutting Stevie Johnson.

I think adding him (assuming he gets cut) for a year or two, in addition to drafting another WR and TE plus a couple of OLs would give the Jaguars QBs some quality and some experience.

You are a work of art.

You are the needs guy, right? Didn't we have a discussion about this?

You believe we should draft for needs and that BAP is out?

Funny.

I seem to recall somebody knocked drafting the best player available regardless of position.

When you take the best player available regardless of position, you make the pick and throw him into the mix within his unit. You keep drafting BAP and soon your individual units become strong.

So what if I draft five wide receivers? I've got 'em means you need 'em.

First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. - Mahatma Gandhi

http://s6.postimg.org/vyr2ycdfz/Teddy_Br...cked_4.gif

Bullseye · 05-09-2014, 06:28 AM

Quote:You are a work of art.

You are the needs guy, right? Didn't we have a discussion about this?

You believe we should draft for needs and that BAP is out?

Funny.

I seem to recall somebody knocked drafting the best player available regardless of position.

When you take the best player available regardless of position, you make the pick and throw him into the mix within his unit. You keep drafting BAP and soon your individual units become strong.

So what if I draft five wide receivers? I've got 'em means you need 'em.

If you are going to criticize me, be accurate.

I have always attacked the proposition that BAP was a superior approach to drafting, and that it was dependent upon accurate scouting/ranking of players. Whether you draft or need, if your board is not accurate, your approach to picking players off that board is immaterial.

I have argued against the tacit assertion that needs based drafting does not factor in value into their determinations, and that need based teams do not draft by randomly pulling names out of a hat.

I have argued against the Ketchman premise that BAP precludes superior talent from going to the competition.

I have always maintained BAP is more an academic message board exercise than it is actual application for myriad reasons. Teams factor in need/common sense into the equation.

As it applies here, Buffalo didn't need any WRs, and it is questionable if Watkins was the BAP on the board at that time. Furthermore, they traded FUTURE draft picks, including a number one pick next year to get a WR in a WR deep draft. They didn't "rank em and pick em." Trading up is pretty much the antithesis of BAP. Yes, they appear well stocked to overloaded at WR, thus far to the detriment of your beloved OL, specifically RT.

Under your RT or bust rationale/ they should have traded up for Matthews-the guy YOU were championing!

All of this aside, how in the world does my take on this matter serve as a repudiation of my previous takes?!?

This Stevie Johnson speculation envisions a possible release of Stevie Johnson.

Under this scenario, the Bills don't benefit from Johnson's continued presence on the roster, and the Jaguars could temporarily address a need with a good guy without expending a draft pick, freeing up a draft pick to be utilized elsewhere...most notably OL...either this year or next year.

Worst to 1st. Curse Reversed!

**MarleyJag** · 05-09-2014, 06:50 AM

Quote:He definitely has a point.

Blackmon is a huge question mark at this point in time, Shorts is a decent #2 or good #3 who is injury-prone, our running back is unproven, and our offensive line is a huge mystery.

We definitely need to pick up some offensive weapons but this is only year two and this draft is supposed to be deep in receiver talent. We need to shore up the line too. But overall it's gotta be positive that we now have our franchise QB.

I'm condescending. That means I talk down to you.
Check out the Jag's Forum Alternative: Duval Football Fans.

Jungle Cat · 05-09-2014, 06:56 AM

Quote:If you are going to criticize me, be accurate.

I have always attacked the proposition that BAP was a superior approach to drafting, and that it was dependent upon accurate scouting/ranking of players. Whether you draft or need, if your board is not accurate, your approach to picking players off that board is immaterial.

I have argued against the tacit assertion that needs based drafting does not factor in value into their determinations, and that need based teams do not draft by randomly pulling names out of a hat.

I have argued against the Ketchman premise that BAP precludes superior talent from going to the competition.

I have always maintained BAP is more an academic message board exercise than it is actual application for myriad reasons. Teams factor in need/common sense into the equation.

As it applies here, Buffalo didn't need any WRs, and it is questionable if Watkins was the BAP on the board at that time. Furthermore, they traded FUTURE draft picks, including a number one pick next year to get a WR in a WR deep draft. They didn't "rank em and pick em." Trading up is pretty much the antithesis of BAP. Yes, they appear well stocked to overloaded at WR, thus far to the detriment of your beloved OL, specifically RT.

Under your RT or bust rationale/ they should have traded up for Matthews-the guy YOU were championing!

All of this aside, how in the world does my take on this matter serve as a repudiation of my previous takes?!?

This Stevie Johnson speculation envisions a possible release of Stevie Johnson.

Under this scenario, the Bills don't benefit from Johnson's continued presence on the roster, and the Jaguars could temporarily address a need with a good guy without expending a draft pick, freeing up a draft pick to be utilized elsewhere...most notably OL...either this year or next year.

The Bills have WRs. Lots of 'em.

Let that gnaw at you for a spell. You'll get there.

There's always hope.

First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. - Mahatma Gandhi

http://s6.postimg.org/vyr2ycdfz/Teddy_Br...cked_4.gif

Jungle Cat · 05-09-2014, 07:01 AM

Quote:We definitely need to pick up some offensive weapons but this is only year two and this draft is supposed to be deep in receiver talent. We need to shore up the line too. But overall it's gotta be positive that we now have our franchise QB.

You can't do it all in one draft.

After evaluating the 2013 draft, Caldwell is running out of drafts.

We don't have a franchise quarterback. We have a rookie developmental project type of quarterback.

Odds are very high, like every other quarterback we've drafted he will soon be thrown to the wolves.

In Jacksonville, you've got to have it right away. Caldwell's paper pals are already washing their hands of Bortles.

Beware of the fast-rising quarterback. Beware! Beware! Beware! - Bill Polian

First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. - Mahatma Gandhi

http://s6.postimg.org/vyr2ycdfz/Teddy_Br...cked_4.gif

**MarleyJag** · 05-09-2014, 07:11 AM

Quote:You can't do it all in one draft.

After evaluating the 2013 draft, Caldwell is running out of drafts.

We don't have a franchise quarterback. We have a rookie developmental project type of quarterback.

Odds are very high, like every other quarterback we've drafted he will soon be thrown to the wolves.

In Jacksonville, you've got to have it right away. Caldwell's paper pals are already washing their hands of Bortles.

Beware of the fast-rising quarterback. Beware! Beware! Beware! - Bill Polian

I don't get the fast rising thing. All along the top 3 QBs in this draft has been Bortles, Bridgewater, or Manziel. Bridgewater and Manziel both have serious questions about them. Bortles is the closest thing to a can't miss as was in this draft. He's Andrew Luck, although I understand why people aren't buying it yet.

I'm condescending. That means I talk down to you.
Check out the Jag's Forum Alternative: Duval Football Fans.

Bullseye · 05-09-2014, 07:17 AM

Quote:The Bills have WRs. Lots of 'em.

Let that gnaw at you for a spell. You'll get there.

There's always hope.

So let me see if I understand you.

The "no brainer" pick for the Jaguars-a team with needs all over the roster-is Matthews, who would play RT for us. He was there at pick 3.

However, the Bills, who at least have their candidate for a franchise QB, have lots of WRs, and a need at RT, trade up to 4, (that's one pick below the Jaguars), bypass the guy you championed here, and they did the right thing?

I would like to echo your sentiment that there's always hope, but your stance seems to make that a dubious proposition.

Worst to 1st. Curse Reversed!

I am Yoda · 05-09-2014, 08:18 AM

Quote:I don't get the fast rising thing. All along the top 3 QBs in this draft has been Bortles, Bridgewater, or Manziel. Bridgewater and Manziel both have serious questions about them. Bortles is the closest thing to a can't miss as was in this draft. He's Andrew Luck, although I understand why people aren't buying it yet.

I'm not sure if you're being straight up or tongue in cheek. I'd be surprised if he's Andrew Luck. But the more I read and watch, I'm becoming convinced this was a very good pick.

Fix the O-Line!

JagsFan1 · 05-09-2014, 08:20 AM

Now if we would have drafted Manziel you wouldn't have herd none of this. Whatever tho. Caldwell clearly stated at the draft party ''let's go get some weapons''. He knows this. WR in the the 2nd. Tre Mason or a TE in the 3rd.

KFL · 05-09-2014, 08:22 AM

drafts and teams are made in these next few rounds, Not round 1

KFL · 05-09-2014, 08:24 AM

Quote:Now if we would have drafted Manziel you wouldn't have herd none of this. Whatever tho. Caldwell clearly stated at the draft party ''let's go get some weapons''. He knows this. WR in the the 2nd. Tre Mason or a TE in the 3rd.

exactly, Jace Amaro, Jordan Matthews, Marquis Lee are all still there