So you're saying that taking away an established target and replacing that target with an unestablished player, is going to create more defensive focus on the other established player?


Wow. Who knew? What a startling revelation.

You're not really helping the whole agenda thing here.

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

So why wasn't Jordan Todman cut after the last preseason game? We don't need four running backs.

He's the primary kick returner and the second best blocker of the RBs. 

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I don't disagree Shorts is quicker. However, Victor Cruz is quicker than Anquan Boldin. So what? They are two different types of receivers. I wouldn't mind having either on my fantasy team. They both serve their roles.

 

Confidence is a huge part of being talented. What good is a player if the game is on the line and they choke from nerves? Not saying Shorts is one of those guys because he has made clutch plays for us but I believe Hurns may hold that quality from the little we've seen.

 

I also don't recall Hurns breaking tackles but I believe it's fair to call him a physical receiver is it not? I think he's more suited in the strength department to take a drag route or hitch and break it for a big gain. I think Gus and the coaching staff believe that as well which is why he's our WR3 at the moment.

 

You were saying Hurns is a better route runner, which isn't really true since Shorts can change directions quicker.  Shorts is a more gifted athlete, albeit shorter.  A guy like Boldin uses his large frame to block out defenders and catches the ball with his hands.  Hurns hasn't really shown the ability to do that yet.

 

You said he can easily break tackles, but we haven't seen him do it yet.  He isn't really "physical".  Until I see him run through defenders like Percy Harvin or Sammy Watkins, Im not putting the "physical" label on him.  We haven't really seen him take a drag route to the house yet.  But we have seen Shorts do this a number of times.

 

Shorts can make the acrobatic catch.  Hurns has yet to show that kind of ability.

 

These are all reasons why Shorts is more talented.

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You're not really helping the whole agenda thing here.

My bad.

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There's a method to their madness.  This team is gaining depth across the board, and that should continue.  The only thing we haven't seen from Caldwell's approach is more wins, but I think those are going to be coming soon. 

 

The good thing that we maybe can draw from the preseason is that we were ahead in 3 of the 4 games when the starters and rotational players were in there. 

 

Even thought the Jags went 1-3 in the preseason, it really isn't a proper representation of how good the 1st team (and immediate subs) were playing. 

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The good thing that we maybe can draw from the preseason is that we were ahead in 3 of the 4 games when the starters and rotational players were in there. 

 

Even thought the Jags went 1-3 in the preseason, it really isn't a proper representation of how good the 1st team (and immediate subs) were playing. 

 

This is a good point and it's encouraging to see.  The depth isn't very good at this point but it really shouldn't be given all the turnover/change Caldwell and crew have made in two off seasons.  The starters didn't play all that bad this preseason and I hope that carries over into the regular season.

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You were saying Hurns is a better route runner, which isn't really true since Shorts can change directions quicker.  Shorts is a more gifted athlete, albeit shorter.  A guy like Boldin uses his large frame to block out defenders and catches the ball with his hands.  Hurns hasn't really shown the ability to do that yet.

 

You said he can easily break tackles, but we haven't seen him do it yet.  He isn't really "physical".  Until I see him run through defenders like Percy Harvin or Sammy Watkins, Im not putting the "physical" label on him.  We haven't really seen him take a drag route to the house yet.  But we have seen Shorts do this a number of times.

 

Shorts can make the acrobatic catch.  Hurns has yet to show that kind of ability.

 

These are all reasons why Shorts is more talented.

 

If Hurns has yet to show the examples you've given it really isn't fair to say Shorts is more talented in those areas. I'll come back here in 3 or 4 games and tell you that I was wrong but until then all I have to go off of is what he's done at Miami and in the pre-season which has been fairly impressive. I understand breaking tackles in college is different from the NFL so there's nothing I can really say to that argument because you're correct.

 

I don't disagree that Shorts is the more talented receiver at the moment. I do believe Hurns has a significant chance to be just as good if he can keep up with the pace of the game at the next level and stay healthy.

 

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This is a good point and it's encouraging to see.  The depth isn't very good at this point but it really shouldn't be given all the turnover/change Caldwell and crew have made in two off seasons.  The starters didn't play all that bad this preseason and I hope that carries over into the regular season.

Depth isn't great once you get 3 deep at the position.

But not many teams are THAT good that deep.

 

I watched all 4 games. The back up QBs Stanzi and Morris lost us those games as much as anything else. (The offensive line setup in preseason game 4 was a mess from the start too)

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If Hurns has yet to show the examples you've given it really isn't fair to say Shorts is more talented in those areas. I'll come back here in 3 or 4 games and tell you that I was wrong but until then all I have to go off of is what he's done at Miami and in the pre-season which has been fairly impressive. I understand breaking tackles in college is different from the NFL so there's nothing I can really say to that argument because you're correct.

 

I don't disagree that Shorts is the more talented receiver at the moment. I do believe Hurns has a significant chance to be just as good if he can keep up with the pace of the game at the next level and stay healthy.

 

 

What I'm saying is he would have to do something entirely different in the regular season to be considered on Shorts' level in my mind.  Hurns did nothing more than catch the passes thrown to him.  He didn't do anything that made you say, "wow".  He needs to do more than just "keep it up".

 

If you go off of what he did at Miami... it's pretty much the same thing we've seen so far.  He runs good routes and catches the ball.  Other than that he was a good deep threat... but he never showed that acrobatic ability to go up and get the ball.  Every pass I see him catch is with his body.  He doesn't go up and get it.  In the NFL, that is a must.  You wont be able to sneak behind broken coverages like he did many times at Miami.

 

Shorts is more talented from an pure athleticism point of view.  It has nothing to do with production.  Hurns isnt going to suddenly become more athletic.

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What I'm saying is he would have to do something entirely different in the regular season to be considered on Shorts' level in my mind.  Hurns did nothing more than catch the passes thrown to him.  He didn't do anything that made you say, "wow".  He needs to do more than just "keep it up".

 

Shorts is more talented from an pure athleticism point of view.  It has nothing to do with production.  Hurns is going to suddenly become more athletic.

 

To be fair, Shorts hasn't been "wow" in a bit himself.

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Who are you to say we don't need 4 RBs? 

 

A fan who can see more important jobs than backup running back for Jordan Todman's roster spot.

 

Keeping Todman makes Storm Johnson look like a wasted draft pick.

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To be fair, Shorts hasn't been "wow" in a bit himself.

 

in his career, he absolutely has shown the ability to go up and make the difficult catch.

 

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He's the primary kick returner and the second best blocker of the RBs. 

 

Then he should move to backup fullback.

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on the Shorts/Hurns debate...

 

From what I've seen so far - I'd say that Hurns tracks the ball in the air better and more naturally than Cecil does. He made two difficult catches look so easy that maybe you didn't realize you were "wowed."  (One was on the verge of being overthrown but he caught it with his fingers in full stride and maintained his balance and momentum. The other he had to turn his body in stride back toward the QB while making the grab over his head and continuing to run. It looked almost effortless.)

 

Also - when an undrafted rookie has a 100+ yard game in the preseason, I'd say that qualifies for a "wow." 

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To be fair, Shorts hasn't been "wow" in a bit himself.

 

Shorts is a perfect example of a guy who needs the right coach to succeed. He was so bad before Jerry Sullivan arrived I wanted Gene Smith to cut him. Then MIke Mularkey hired a good WR coach to save his career and voila! Shorts quickly became our second best WR (the best when Blackmon was out). Now he also has a better offensive coordinator, so we should see big things from him.

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on the Shorts/Hurns debate...

 

From what I've seen so far - I'd say that Hurns tracks the ball in the air better and more naturally than Cecil does. He made two difficult catches look so easy that maybe you didn't realize you were "wowed." 

 

Also - when an undrafted rookie has a 100+ yard game in the preseason, I'd say that qualifies for a "wow." 

 

I am sure the amount of playing time had something to do with that. Undrafted rookies need to play a lot more in preseason than default starters, obviously. But it tells me Allen Hurns should have been drafted by somebody and we got a steal.

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on the Shorts/Hurns debate...

 

From what I've seen so far - I'd say that Hurns tracks the ball in the air better and more naturally than Cecil does. He made two difficult catches look so easy that maybe you didn't realize you were "wowed." 

 

Also - when an undrafted rookie has a 100+ yard game in the preseason, I'd say that qualifies for a "wow." 

 

naa

 

if you watch his DET highlight vid you can see he catches everything with his body.  He made some good catches, but they aren't acrobatic or spectacular.  He never had to go up and get it.  Hurns is just a tall guy with decent speed.  He will never be a big game-changing receiver.  Shorts has that potential with his explosiveness and athletic ability.

 

in other words, he doesn't do anything Cecil cant.... but Cecil can do things Hurns cant.

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naa

 

if you watch his DET highlight vid you can see he catches everything with his body.  He made some good catches, but they aren't acrobatic or spectacular.  He never had to go up and get it.  Hurns is just a tall guy with decent speed.  He will never be a big game-changing receiver.  Shorts has that potential with his explosiveness and athletic ability.

 

in other words, he doesn't do anything Cecil cant.... but Cecil can do things Hurns cant.

 

LOL. 

 



 

He catches with his hands when he has to. 

 

On this catch vs. Chicago he turned back and made a difficult grab look pretty easy as well:



 

Catching with his hands here again. ^  It's an outside back-shoulder pass. You know the one that Shorts didn't even see when Henne threw it to him the following week.

 

Cecil deserves his spot on the depth chart, and has the edge, but I think Hurns may have him beat in terms of God-given natural athletic talent. Remains to be seen if he'll see it through to it's potential.  Shorts has to work hard(er) to do what he does and he's to be commended for putting in the work. 

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in his career, he absolutely has shown the ability to go up and make the difficult catch.

 

 

Since 2011 I can only recall like 2 "spectacular" catches. Neither he went up to get.

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LOL. 

 



 

He catches with his hands when he has to. 

 

On this catch vs. Chicago he turned back and made a difficult grab look pretty easy as well:



 

Catching with his hands here again. ^  It's an outside back-shoulder pass. You know the one that Shorts didn't even see when Henne threw it to him the following week.

 

Cecil deserves his spot on the depth chart, and has the edge, but I think Hurns may have him beat in terms of God-given natural athletic talent. Remains to be seen if he'll see it through to it's potential.  Shorts has to work hard(er) to do what he does and he's to be commended for putting in the work. 

 

There is the occasional pass where he has to extend his arms.  That is the exception.  Are you really going to argue that he doesn't catch it with his body most of the time?  It's pretty obvious.  You spent way too much time finding pictures to prove basically nothing other than sometimes he had to use his hands.

 

Even in those instances.  That isn't really what Im referring to.  Receivers generally are taught to catch the ball in front of them with their hands.  Hurns usually cradles the ball against his body.  Which is what he would have done in those pictures had he not needed to extend his arms.

 

Obviously he still caught it.  That's good and all, but that doesn't show an ability to leap up or dive for a difficult catch, which Shorts has shown he can do.  Hence why I think Shorts is more talented.

 

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