Disagree. 

 

As said before, this team not winning this year is understandable/ acceptable. This team with the point differential it has, combined with the offensive/ defensive rankings they've produced is not acceptable. Better coaching could have this team a lot more competitive, IMO. 

 

Nope.

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I think you're reaching here.  He's been good in coverage this year, not a liability at all.  He's improved from year one to year two.  He's one of few players on this defense that look like they could be long term pieces.  He's fine and not a problem.

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Is he worth the 33rd overall pick?

 

 

Of the 2013 draft? Yes.

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But it's cool. Anybody who has been on this board for any length of time knows how your schtick works.

 

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I think you're reaching here.  He's been good in coverage this year, not a liability at all.  He's improved from year one to year two.  He's one of few players on this defense that look like they could be long term pieces.  He's fine and not a problem.

 

I'll admit that he's improved enough this year that I actually watch games and find myself not wanting him gone anymore. 

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Personally, I like the fact that Gus recently changed his tone to "now it's time to start winning".  I think he's changing his mentality.  I also like the fact that he diverted from the Henne 16-game plan this season.  He was dealt a very bad hand of cards due to the "win later philosophy" so I can live with that.   My biggest concern with this team is the halftime adjustments and being able to outsmart the opponents coaches on the fly.  I'm still on the 3-4 win season at best but I can't just yet issue Gus the blame.   He hasn't said the word "Resilient" once this week so that must mean we're getting better.  He was pulling that after our 20 point losses.  OH, did I mention Muschamp used the word "Resilient" to describe Driskel yesterday?

 

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Trade a 4th or 5th for Knile Davis in the off season. Send Gerhart packing. Then we get Davis and Storm running the show. Boom!

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Personally, I like the fact that Gus recently changed his tone to "now it's time to start winning".  I think he's changing his mentality.  I also like the fact that he diverted from the Henne 16-game plan this season.  He was dealt a very bad hand of cards due to the "win later philosophy" so I can live with that.   My biggest concern with this team is the halftime adjustments and being able to outsmart the opponents coaches on the fly.  I'm still on the 3-4 win season at best but I can't just yet issue Gus the blame.   He hasn't said the word "Resilient" once this week so that must mean we're getting better.  He was pulling that after our 20 point losses.  OH, did I mention Muschamp used the word "Resilient" to describe Driskel yesterday?

 

 

 

I'm not sure that the Steelers loss "looking closer" wasn't anything more than paint & mirrors, IMO. They played more bend/ don't break than ever on defense this past week and we're equally conservative on offense. It helped give the appearance of a game that was closer than the score might have looked. Del Rio's philosophy was good for creating this type of game. The Steelers held the ball for almost the entire 2nd half of the 4th Quarter when we needed a stop and couldn't get one. The Steelers would have scored again, had there been more time on the clock. 17-9 was closer to 24-9. But the final score looked good aesthetically, so Gus was happy. 

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Trade a 4th or 5th for Knile Davis in the off season. Send Gerhart packing. Then we get Davis and Storm running the show. Boom!

 

I wouldn't mind the Jags getting Knile Davis, actually. Probably wouldn't be able to get him for a 5th, tho. 

 

Its a shame that Shorts is hurt again,....had he still been healthy, a Shorts for Davis player swap might have been beneficial to both teams. KC needs WR help. 

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I wouldn't mind the Jags getting Knile Davis, actually. Probably wouldn't be able to get him for a 5th, tho. 

 

Its a shame that Shorts is hurt again,....had he still been healthy, a Shorts for Davis player swap might have been beneficial to both teams. KC needs WR help. 

Still can hope doe. Knile Davis is a beast and once he gets out from behind Charles, watch out.

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I'm not sure that the Steelers loss "looking closer" wasn't anything more than paint & mirrors, IMO. They played more bend/ don't break than ever on defense this past week and we're equally conservative on offense. It helped give the appearance of a game that was closer than the score might have looked. Del Rio's philosophy was good for creating this type of game. The Steelers held the ball for almost the entire 2nd half of the 4th Quarter when we needed a stop and couldn't get one. The Steelers would have scored again, had there been more time on the clock. 17-9 was closer to 24-9. But the final score looked good aesthetically, so Gus was happy. 

 

Bend don't break is better than what we've been seeing:  Give me a break, Give me a break, break me off a piece of that, break me of a piece of that, great big score.


And how can you be sure Gus is happy with the final score?  Privately, he may be very disappointed.  But he's not the type of coach who's going to publicly show his disappointment and throw players under the bus.  He's not Mike Mularkey.

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I was wrong about Trent Baalke. 

Still can hope doe. Knile Davis is a beast and once he gets out from behind Charles, watch out.

 

Oh, I don't disagree. Knile can ball. 

 

I think that knowing how Charles has been dinged these past few years, might make KC a bit less apt to deal him away hastily. 

 

I'm with you on hoping it does happen, for our sake. 

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1.  This don't flush. 


 

How do any of us know right now that Any of Joeckel, Linder, Pasztor, Bortles, Lee, Robinson, Hurns or Storm Johnson aren't future studs? At that time none of those players you cite were guarantees to be great players, let alone HOF'ers. Dallas' coaching and player development deserves credit here in helping those guys attain their peak potential. 


 

 

2.By the end of 1990 (they won 4 straight games to reach 7-7 until Aikman got hurt against Philly and they lost the last 2), they were a much more efficient offense even with Shula being there weighing them down. 

 

LOL, if that was Jaguar-land in that same situation, the fans here would be arguing to KEEP Shula since there was tangible (but very little) "impwovement" haaha. Jimmy Johnson, OTOH, was SMART enough to realize that Shula wasn't good enough, and wasn't duped by tiny improvement that late in the process, and made the necessary upgrade to Norv Turner that next offseason. And the rest was history. 


 

 

 

3.  Bortles is in his first year, as is Lee, A. Robinson and Hurns.  Those guys may become the nucleus of a big time team in the future, but at this point they are all rookies and will have their struggles with consistency.

 

...and as said, at that point those same players were young in Dallas and were guaranteed nothing in terms of becoming the players they eventually did. 


 

 

4.  Furthermore, keep in  mind, the rules actually allowed teams to play defense then.  It's much harder-especially for a team that lacks talent-to play defense now.

 

Regarding impatience...yes you are being impatient.  We've already discussed Jimmy Johnson.  Remember Bill Walsh?  Know what his record was after 21 games with San Francisco?

 

5-16, and arguably with no improvement on the defensive side of the ball.

 

 

Oh, so you just mention that back then the landscape was different (in an attempt to excuse Bradleys [BAD WORD REMOVED] poor defense), so now you go back another DECADE, to try and look for another relevant example to help your argument. 


 

Bill Walsh was also a highly respected offensive mind. He developed a whole new revolutionary offense to fit the talent he had in San Fran. Our coaches are still the opposite "YOU WILL FIT OUR SYSTEM" type inflexible dinosaurs. 


 

 

5.  Jimmy Johnson had a worse record than Bradley at a similar point, while Walsh was one game better.

 

Following your rationale and timetable, your conclusion would be that both Johnson and Walsh were also in over their heads.

 

 

6.  Yes, I was the one that mentioned that Jimmy started 4-22. He also was in a MUCH more difficult situation to rebuild given the environment of the division at that time (NFC East was light years ahead of the current AFC South in terms of competition), there also was no salary cap and very little free agency at that point. I think they had Plan B types at that point which were for the most part fringe players at best. 


 

LOL, Walsh was even before that.....


 

Any comparable examples in the current generation?


 

 

My point is that given the massive rebuilding job the team had to endure, these results were not totally unexpected.

 

It isn't my point that Bradley is beyond reproach under any and all circumstances.  But let's face it, when have you EVER seen ANY team with SIX (6) rookie starters on one side of the ball?

 

If experience can turn a guy you hated in Cecil Shorts into a productive (even if not dominant or special) WR, what can it do for Bortles, Lee, A. Robinson, Hurns, Linder, Bowanko and Joeckel?

 

7.  Fisch IMO is as big a problem to us as David Shula was to the Cowboys. Jimmy Johnson had enough sense to jettison Shula at seasons end in 1990 and wasn't duped by "modest" improvement in the 2nd half of that season. I'd bet you people will gush at the slightest bit of hope shown by this offense, as will Gus, and Fisch will remain, and be defended by this peanut gallery. 


 

 

 

What would that accumulation of combined experience do for offensive production overall?

 

Would it be safe to assume the team would play with more leads?  Wouldn't that put the defense in more predictable situations?

 

By the end of this year first part of this year, I'd say any failures of the team to show any signs of improvement should be met with some criticism.

 

<b><i>8.  I'm not against giving Bradley the rest of this year. I'm not saying to pull the plug right now. I'm saying without any serious improvement between now and seasons end, they should go in a different direction. </i></b>

 

1.  You are being disingenuous with this argument.  I do not, in any way, assert  Bortles, et al, won't be future studs.  To the contrary, I am quite bullish on the futures of Bortles, Lee, A. Robinson, Hurns and Linder, and am waiting to see on Bowanko.  My point is that the basis of comparison (1990 Cowboys vs. 2014 Jaguars) is flawed to a certain degree, because the guys I mentioned for Dallas (save Emmitt Smith) were all past their rookie years in 1990, and as such should be expected to be more productive than guys in their rookie years like what we see here in Jacksonville.

 

2.  From my perspective, the caricature of some of the fanbase here is wholly irrelevant to the substance of the discussion here.  I will say I was in favor of dumping Shula at the time (in part because Shula wasn't running Emmitt Smith), and I thought it was a shrewd move on JJ's part.   Given the way Bradley has cut players who don't perform, I could see him replacing assistants who aren't good enough.

 

3.  See #1 above.  They weren't guaranteed anything at that point, other than to have been further along in their development in 1990 than 6 members of the Jaguars offense has been thus far this season.

 

4.  What in the WORLD is your basis for Bradley being inflexible?!? 

 

5-6.  I don't believe he was in a more difficult situation.  As I indicated, by the time he hit the field in 1989, Irvin, Aikman, Norton, Stepnoski, Tuinei, Newton and Gogan were already on the team.  Yes, the NFC East at that time was tougher, and there was no free agency.  But there were also four fewer teams with which to compete for draftable talent, and they could retain players longer (which means there was no fear of an Irvin to leave via free agency).  As far as more contemporary comparisons go, I'm not sure too many teams have lost as prolifically as the Jaguars have over a span of 3-4 years. At face value  Detroit would seem to be a good comparison as far as working with a depleted roster over years of inept drafting.  I don't have time to go into the details now, but I promise a comparison soon.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

 

 

 

4.  What in the WORLD is your basis for Bradley being inflexible?!? 

 

 

When I say that I am referring to only getting players that fit the systems our Coordinators are married to, not building/ tweaking the systems around talent - which IMO, is what good coaches do. As examples to what I am talking about, look at our offense - any RB/ OL we target must be ZBS compatible. On defense the DB's have to fit the "profile" of a "Gus" CB....based on the defense they ran in Seattle. I'm just saying they should get the best player regardless, and then worry about the best way to scheme around that talent at that point. 

 

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When people are discussing the youth of this team, they are usually discussing average experience rather than average age of the team. I think that is where TMD is finding a disconnect in his attempt at comparing the 1990 cowboys to the current Jaguar roster.  The Jaguars have the more inexperienced starters.

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Formerly known as The Real Joker

When I say that I am referring to only getting players that fit the systems our Coordinators are married to, not building/ tweaking the systems around talent - which IMO, is what good coaches do. As examples to what I am talking about, look at our offense - any RB/ OL we target must be ZBS compatible. On defense the DB's have to fit the "profile" of a "Gus" CB....based on the defense they ran in Seattle. I'm just saying they should get the best player regardless, and then worry about the best way to scheme around that talent at that point. 

The ZBS really only works when the Oline has had a lot of time to gel together. So I agree that we should be just going to a man to man type scheme where our Olineman can just say "I'm going to block this guy"

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Sorry, but it's players, not plays.

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"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."

Sorry, but it's players, not plays.

 

Disagree. 

 

The roster is more talented than the results show.

 

Coaching on this team has been poor. 

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The ZBS really only works when the Oline has had a lot of time to gel together. So I agree that we should be just going to a man to man type scheme where our Olineman can just say "I'm going to block this guy"

Can you move from one to the other seamlessly?

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I was wrong about Trent Baalke. 

Disagree.


The roster is more talented than the results show.


Coaching on this team has been poor.

How many practices have you attended to form this opinion?

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