You really believe neither side makes concerted efforts to steal elections?

None that are strictly illegal anyway. 

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None that are strictly illegal anyway. 

 

Well your trust of the political system and it's ability to play within the rules runs much deeper than mine. As for this case, I'm just simply bringing to attention a blatant case of "illegal" activity caught red-handed. It's been said on this very forum several times by numerous people it doesn't happen, this is just an example of proof that it does happen. Now we can argue to what degree and how effective it is, but we can't say it doesn't happen.

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Well your trust of the political system and it's ability to play within the rules runs much deeper than mine. As for this case, I'm just simply bringing to attention a blatant case of "illegal" activity caught red-handed. It's been said on this very forum several times by numerous people it doesn't happen, this is just an example of proof that it does happen. Now we can argue to what degree and how effective it is, but we can't say it doesn't happen.

No, what you've posted is a single "eye witness account" from a very biased source supported by a glorified slide show and covered only by a website whose credibility is sketchy at best. When this is covered by a media outlet with even a semblance of journalistic integrity, then I'll consider it. Until then it is just another tin foil hat story. 

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You really believe neither side makes concerted efforts to steal elections?

 

Not on a scale that justifies the hysteria the conservative media tries to incite.

 

There are plenty of "legitimate" ways to rig outcomes.

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If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley


 

Not on a scale that justifies the hysteria the conservative media tries to incite.

 

There are plenty of "legitimate" ways to rig outcomes.

 

Again we can argue to what degree it happens, I'm just simply tying to illustrate it does happen. A point that has been contended on this board.

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Not on a scale that justifies the hysteria the conservative media tries to incite.

 

There are plenty of "legitimate" ways to rig outcomes.

Just ask Katherine Harris. 

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Does voter fraud happen?  Absolutely.  Is it "legitimate"?  Not very.

 

One news story from today.

Another.

Another.

 

This one is rather interesting.  While there is no evidence of voter fraud, a system like this just makes it that much easier.

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

Just ask Katherine Harris. 

 

I was able to see the problems with the 2000 election unfold first hand. I was an assistant analyst with the City of Jacksonville's IT department supporting the Election's Office applications. My former supervisor was lead analyst on the same applications before accepting a position with the Elections Office as the Supervisor of Elections top assistant. He knew there were serious problems with the voting systems, specifically with the punch cards and card readers used to tally votes.

 

Because of my disability and lack of accessible polling places and voting machines I was allowed to vote by absentee ballot. The ballots were the same pnch cards used at all polling places in Duval County, and the same IBM punch cards some of us older folks recall from the early days of computing. The directions "Do not fold, spindle or mutilate" were part of our lexicon. Any card that was not perfectly flat and with holes incompletely punched might get rejected, but more often just read incorrectly by card readers. The absentee ballots were stapled to a thin piece of styrofoam and mailed with a partially unfolded paper clip, with which you would use to punch the hole corresponding to the vote you wanted to cast.

 

There were no directions to make sure the holes were completely punched through, not instructions to make sure there were none of the infamous "hanging chads", which were tiny bits of the punched out card that hung on the back of the hole and could cause the card reader to not detect a punched hole.

 

My former supervisor, John Stafford, and I, as well as any analyst in IT knew that hanging chads were a big problem. In the early 80s we started batch processing jobs with decks of these cards. If a hole wasn't punched through cleanly it would be kicked out and the jobs would abort. My department head met with Stafford and other Elections Office officials more than once and told them of this problem on more than one occasions, but they basically blew it off, except for Stafford. There was no budget for a new system, they would tell us. The problems weren't bad enough to affect election results, they said. Well, we all know how that turned out.

 

Within a month of the 2000 election, they were accepting bids for a new system, with money being no object.

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If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley


 

I was able to see the problems with the 2000 election unfold first hand. I was an assistant analyst with the City of Jacksonville's IT department supporting the Election's Office applications. My former supervisor was lead analyst on the same applications before accepting a position with the Elections Office as the Supervisor of Elections top assistant. He knew there were serious problems with the voting systems, specifically with the punch cards and card readers used to tally votes.

 

Because of my disability and lack of accessible polling places and voting machines I was allowed to vote by absentee ballot. The ballots were the same pnch cards used at all polling places in Duval County, and the same IBM punch cards some of us older folks recall from the early days of computing. The directions "Do not fold, spindle or mutilate" were part of our lexicon. Any card that was not perfectly flat and with holes incompletely punched might get rejected, but more often just read incorrectly by card readers. The absentee ballots were stapled to a thin piece of styrofoam and mailed with a partially unfolded paper clip, with which you would use to punch the hole corresponding to the vote you wanted to cast.

 

There were no directions to make sure the holes were completely punched through, not instructions to make sure there were none of the infamous "hanging chads", which were tiny bits of the punched out card that hung on the back of the hole and could cause the card reader to not detect a punched hole.

 

My former supervisor, John Stafford, and I, as well as any analyst in IT knew that hanging chads were a big problem. In the early 80s we started batch processing jobs with decks of these cards. If a hole wasn't punched through cleanly it would be kicked out and the jobs would abort. My department head met with Stafford and other Elections Office officials more than once and told them of this problem on more than one occasions, but they basically blew it off, except for Stafford. There was no budget for a new system, they would tell us. The problems weren't bad enough to affect election results, they said. Well, we all know how that turned out.

 

Within a month of the 2000 election, they were accepting bids for a new system, with money being no object.

 

Interesting story, but I wouldn't count the results of the 2000 election "voter fraud".  There is a difference between failure of the system and fraud.

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

Interesting story, but I wouldn't count the results of the 2000 election "voter fraud".  There is a difference between failure of the system and fraud.

 

I did not mean to infer such, and I think system failures are much more to blame than voter fraud, which I think is a red herring.

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If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley


 

If 100 people can vote, but 150 votes show up in the final talley, it's just right wing paranoia, right? 

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What lies behind us, and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.







 

The easiest answer to shut the liberals up is to institute a voter ID law, nationally, and have the government foot the bill  for those "who are too poor to get ID and are being discriminated against" once and for all. It eliminates the whole poll tax argument, and would give those poor souls IDs for things like welfare and anything else in life that they need an ID for.

 

I imagine the liberals would never go for that. Ever wonder why?

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What lies behind us, and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.







 

I did not mean to infer such, and I think system failures are much more to blame than voter fraud, which I think is a red herring.

 

Not a big deal.  I just thought that maybe this was an example of '"legitimate" ways to rig outcomes'.  There is a difference though, and I think we agree.

 

You have to admit though, voter fraud does happen... on both sides of the aisle.  It just seems to me that the left side seems to get "caught" more.  Remember the ACORN organization?

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

So voter fraud turned the Franken election which in turn brought us Oblahblahcare. But it doesn't matter at all. Nope, not a bit. It just isn't important.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/monk...-election/

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

So voter fraud turned the Franken election which in turn brought us Oblahblahcare. But it doesn't matter at all. Nope, not a bit. It just isn't important.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/monk...-election/

 

Interesting article.   Apparently non-citizens had no problem providing photo ID when they were required to.   Which makes one wonder how effective photo ID requirements would be in preventing voter fraud. 

 

"We also find that one of the favorite policies advocated by conservatives to prevent voter fraud appears strikingly ineffective. Nearly three quarters of the non-citizens who indicated they were asked to provide photo identification at the polls claimed to have subsequently voted."

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So voter fraud turned the Franken election which in turn brought us Oblahblahcare. But it doesn't matter at all. Nope, not a bit. It just isn't important.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/monk...-election/

 

Could you be more misleading? That article said it was their guess, not fact, that non-voters "could have" turned the Minnesota election in Franken's favor. They were extrapolating national data and applying it to state elections.

 

That article also makes the point that anti-fraud measures proposed by conservatives would not have prevented non-citizens from voting, as many of them presented their IDs and were still allowed to vote.

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If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley


 

Could you be more misleading? That article said it was their guess, not fact, that non-voters "could have" turned the Minnesota election in Franken's favor. They were extrapolating national data and applying it to state elections.

 

That article also makes the point that anti-fraud measures proposed by conservatives would not have prevented non-citizens from voting, as many of them presented their IDs and were still allowed to vote.

 

That's correct.   The non-citizens had photo IDs, and they voted.  So much for photo IDs preventing voter fraud.   Back to the drawing board. 

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That's correct.   The non-citizens had photo IDs, and they voted.  So much for photo IDs preventing voter fraud.   Back to the drawing board. 

 

I don't think ID's fix anything, I think it's a step in the right direction. The ultimate goal should be a voters license but I don't see anyone taking it serious when we can't even agree on something simple like proving you are you who you say you are.

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I know it "never" happens, it's just paranoid right wingers looking to oppress voters......

 

I'll just leave this here:  http://www.examiner.com/article/liberal-...g-election  

 

Once again, we are bamboozled by someone with an agenda.

 

http://wonkette.com/564064/latino-guy-de...ppens-next

 

"Far from being up to anything fraudulent, the CBA employee, Ben Marin, was simply fulfilling CBA’s commitment to the voters it promised to help, delivering their sealed absentee ballots to the elections office."

 

So what he was doing was completely legal and common. And in fact, at many campaign events in Arizona, Republicans have asked people to bring their completed ballots so they can be collect and turned in at the elections office, JUST LIKE THIS GUY WAS DOING. 

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I know it "never" happens, it's just paranoid right wingers looking to oppress voters......

 

I'll just leave this here:  http://www.examiner.com/article/liberal-...g-election

 

I'm confused, how does stopping college kids from voting with their college ID stop this, again?

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