I think it crazy to judge the trade and Jockle so fast. People were calling Tyron Smith a bust when came in for the firt 2.5 years of his career. And now he's looking like the best tackle in the league right now. I'm not saying Luke will do that but how can you judge either way?

 

This is the same group that loved Reggie Nelson his first year, hated him the next 2 and now complain about our lack of safety play while he is play like a top 6 safety for the Bungles. 

 

Joeckel might improve a lot in the future. Certainly there's room for improvement. But the odds are he'll never be much better than Monroe. We had a LT. We traded him for 4th and 5th round picks. We could have gotten a lot more for the #2 pick in the draft had we just traded it for 2014 picks straight up. It was a bad trade, period.


The group was right. Nelson was good as a rookie, stunk his next two seasons, and then appeared to be much improved in the preseason when Gene Smith traded him for a ham sandwich. I thought it was a bad trade at the time and said so. Most here were glad to see him go based on his previous two seasons.

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

Week 12 PFF ratings, just for kicks:


Joeckel 55 snaps

Overall rating: .4

Pass block: .4

Screen block: -.5

Run block: .3

Penalties: .2


1 QB hurry allowed


Monroe 60 snaps

Overall rating: -3.3

Pass block: -1.4

Screen block: 0

Run block: -2.1

Penalties: .2


1 penalty against

2 QB hits allowed

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Joeckel might improve a lot in the future. Certainly there's room for improvement. But the odds are he'll never be much better than Monroe. We had a LT. We traded him for 4th and 5th round picks. We could have gotten a lot more for the #2 pick in the draft had we just traded it for 2014 picks straight up. It was a bad trade, period.

The group was right. Nelson was good as a rookie, stunk his next two seasons, and then appeared to be much improved in the preseason when Gene Smith traded him for a ham sandwich. I thought it was a bad trade at the time and said so. Most here were glad to see him go based on his previous two seasons.

 

That is revisionist history at it's finest.

 

Nelson was terrible in 2008-2009 and was on the verge of being cut in 2010 when he was traded. He showed no signs of improvement in the preseason.

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;

;

That is revisionist history at it's finest.

 

Nelson was terrible in 2008-2009 and was on the verge of being cut in 2010 when he was traded. He showed no signs of improvement in the preseason.

Yeah I don't think there was any fan of this team that could stomach watching him play patty cake with WRs anymore. And he's just been OK on a very good Bengals defense.

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Monroe and Smith wouldn't of helped us win why? Because you say so? Seems legit.

I bet Knighton is getting more reps than your knight in shining armor Alualu is.

Please stop acting like you know more about football than ANYBODY on this board. Seriously, you made me shoot diet coke out of my nose from laughing so hard.

That guy is a [BLEEP].

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That is revisionist history at it's finest.

 

Nelson was terrible in 2008-2009 and was on the verge of being cut in 2010 when he was traded. He showed no signs of improvement in the preseason.

 

I saw him play very well in the 2010 preseason. He hustled to the ball. He led the team in tackles that preseason, and a lot of those were RBs at the LOS. He had his limitations, and I thought he would have been better at SS than FS.


 

Considering the trade, I accept that he was on the verge of being cut. He was never Gene Smith's guy. But he did play very well that preseason. No revision, I said that at the time.

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

Week 12 PFF ratings, just for kicks:


Joeckel 55 snaps

Overall rating: .4

Pass block: .4

Screen block: -.5

Run block: .3

Penalties: .2


1 QB hurry allowed


Monroe 60 snaps

Overall rating: -3.3

Pass block: -1.4

Screen block: 0

Run block: -2.1

Penalties: .2


1 penalty against

2 QB hits allowed

 

Stop it with those facts!

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The sun's not yellow, it's chicken.

How do they have the same penalty score if one allowed a penalty and the other one didn't?


These scores are confusing, that's why I never look at them.

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<FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=3><B><FONT face=Verdana color=#ff6600 size=4></FONT></B></FONT>

Week 12 PFF ratings, just for kicks:


Joeckel 55 snaps

Overall rating: .4

Pass block: .4

Screen block: -.5

Run block: .3

Penalties: .2


1 QB hurry allowed


Monroe 60 snaps

Overall rating: -3.3

Pass block: -1.4

Screen block: 0

Run block: -2.1

Penalties: .2


1 penalty against

2 QB hits allowed

 

Do you have ratings for the full season?

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

I saw him play very well in the 2010 preseason. He hustled to the ball. He led the team in tackles that preseason, and a lot of those were RBs at the LOS. He had his limitations, and I thought he would have been better at SS than FS.


 

Considering the trade, I accept that he was on the verge of being cut. He was never Gene Smith's guy. But he did play very well that preseason. No revision, I said that at the time.

 

Reggie Nelson? I think you must be thinking of somebody else. Nelson was nothing but god awful after his rookie year.

 

This was the normal Reggie Nelson image while he was a member of this team.

 

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Reggie Nelson? I think you must be thinking of somebody else. Nelson was nothing but god awful after his rookie year.

 

This was the normal Reggie Nelson image while he was a member of this team.

 

 

That's not from the 2010 preseason.

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

found this on the pff site also.Interesting.

 

Jacksonville Jaguars: Guard <b>Zane Beadles</b> has a Pass Blocking Efficiency of 97.8, which is tied for seventh-best among guards with at least 250 pass-blocking snaps.

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Stop it with those facts!

I'm the first to admit that PFF is not a be all/end all with this type of stuff, but I do feel that they attempt to be impartial, and can be useful in affirming what you think you see.


Sometimes reading posts around here, I get a strong feeling that there's a lot of box score scouting going on or just flat out "team X is 7-4 so all there players must be better than all our players" type of thinking.

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How do they have the same penalty score if one allowed a penalty and the other one didn't?

These scores are confusing, that's why I never look at them.

I'm not 100% sure but it's probably from drawing penalties.

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Do you have ratings for the full season?

Monroe 7 games -6.8 overall, 2.5 Pass, -7.6 Run, -2.2 Penalty


Joeckel 11 games -12 overall, -9.4 Pass, -3.2 Run, 1.6 Penalty


Joeckel was rated flat out terrible against Tenn and Dal, earning -8.9 overall between those two games, but for the most part is trending up save his pass blocking against Dallas. Monroe is pretty even in pass blocking although he's been shaky since returning from his injury - but he is terrible at run blocking.

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