Yes this "personal responsibility" concept does seem vaguely familiar to me...

 

All kidding aside, the Patriots personal responsibility has little to do with the league's enforcement of their own rules.  If they want a game ball that is inflated to somewhere between 12.5 and 13.5 PSI, they are the responsible party for ensuring that's what is on the playing field and not creating windows of opportunity in the process.  It doesn't take "info structure", or infrastructure for that matter, for the league to keep an eye on the game balls once they take possession of them prior to the game.  Whether that's a ref or league official wheeling the balls out, or whether it's a league official walking with the ball boys once the balls are returned to the teams.  I'm sure those will be considered as possible solutions going forward.  

 

Patriots are likely guilty of something, but unless there is video evidence of the ball boy releasing air from the game balls in a private room that he side stepped into on his way to the field, I don't think any real punishment will come of this.  I'm sure changes in policy will though.  

Just because a cop doesn't sit in a car with you every time you drive doesn't mean the police aren't enforcing the rules.

 

The team's are accountable to behave in a responsible manner. If they require babysitting, then they don't belong in the game.

 

This isn't a criminal court. The league just needs enough evidence to show opportunity to go along with motivation and the end results of discovering the deflated balls. The league obviously thought the film evidence was damning enough to release that bit of info to the public.

 

It's no longer a matter of if the league will punish them, but rather to what extent.

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Seriously, I'm laughing out loud over here!!!  You're funny, Jagmeister!

 

We get it.  You're emotionally invested in this.  It's alright, it happens.

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Just because a cop doesn't sit in a car with you every time you drive doesn't mean the police aren't enforcing the rules.

 

The team's are accountable to behave in a responsible manner. If they require babysitting, then they don't belong in the game.

 

This isn't a criminal court. The league just needs enough evidence to show opportunity to go along with motivation and the end results of discovering the deflated balls. The league obviously thought the film evidence was damning enough to release that bit of info to the public.

 

It's no longer a matter of if the league will punish them, but rather to what extent.

I'm not absolving the Patriots from any impropriety that might have happened.  But when it comes to procedures, there are different levels of protection depending on how important the issue is.  Just because it's illegal to rob a Brinks truck, doesn't mean they're going to slap a Brinks sticker on the side of a minivan and transport cash in that manner.  This issue wasn't as important as it should have been to the league if they are handing the balls back to the teams unsupervised after the official weigh in.  Questioning the league policy doesn't equate to absolving the Patriots of wrong doing.  I'll wait to see the video before I label it the smoking gun.

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I'm not absolving the Patriots from any impropriety that might have happened.  But when it comes to procedures, there are different levels of protection depending on how important the issue is.  Just because it's illegal to rob a Brinks truck, doesn't mean they're going to slap a Brinks sticker on the side of a minivan and transport cash in that manner.  This issue wasn't as important as it should have been to the league if they are handing the balls back to the teams unsupervised after the official weigh in.  Questioning the league policy doesn't equate to absolving the Patriots of wrong doing.  I'll wait to see the video before I label it the smoking gun.

I'm sure the league is waiting on your confirmation on what they have already reported seeing.

 

So who is going to oversee the official who is overseeing the team? They have just as much potential to be influenced by possible gain as anyone else. Where do you draw the line at who should be responsible and how can you ever ensure that that particular person will ever act responsibly?

 

The teams were assigned the responsibility for the equipment. If you think you can't expect the teams to be responsible then why on earth would you expect the people watching them be responsible? It's not like the organization doesn't have enough money to tempt them to cheat also.

 

Brinks doesn't hire security guards to guard it's security guards. The guards have agreed to accept the legal obligation to act responsibly even when no one is looking over their shoulder. If they act in a way that is irresponsible or unethical, they are fully aware that there are repercussions for their actions.

 

This is a grown up world where people are given responsibilities. Many people have to act professionally in ways that require responsibility with limited oversight.

 

If my employer had to watch over my every move for fear I might do something unethical, then I wouldn't have my job. This is professional football. You shouldn't fault the league for not treating the organizations like they are being run by a bunch of irresponsible children. Teams are given the obligation and responsibility to act appropriately and when they fail to do so and get caught, they will pay the penalty much like the patriots will, much like every other professional adult will.

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As far as importance, providing regulation equipment is just as important to the NFL as it is to every other major sporting league that places the responsibility for the equipment used in the games solely on the teams playing.

 

Should the NFL consider itself a league that is too irresponsible to allow its franchises to supply the equipment unlike the NBA and MLB?

 

This isn't an NFL problem. This is a patriots integrity problem.

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Just what the NFL needs is an official to take the responsibility away from the teams to create a separate entity that now can be influenced by bribery from "unknown" sources that could even further insulate a team from any accountability and tempt them even more to act without integrity.

 

The main reason for making the teams responsible for the equipment is to keep it out of the hands of a third party that could be more easily manipulated with less accountability for a team that may be interested in manipulation.

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I'm sure the league is waiting on your confirmation on what they have already reported seeing.

 

So who is going to oversee the official who is overseeing the team? They have just as much potential to be influenced by possible gain as anyone else. Where do you draw the line at who should be responsible and how can you ever ensure that that particular person will ever act responsibly?

 

The teams were assigned the responsibility for the equipment. If you think you can't expect the teams to be responsible then why on earth would you expect the people watching them be responsible? It's not like the organization doesn't have enough money to tempt them to cheat also.

 

Brinks doesn't hire security guards to guard it's security guards. The guards have agreed to accept the legal obligation to act responsibly even when no one is looking over their shoulder. If they act in a way that is irresponsible or unethical, they are fully aware that there are repercussions for their actions.

 

This is a grown up world where people are given responsibilities. Many people have to act professionally in ways that require responsibility with limited oversight.

 

If my employer had to watch over my every move for fear I might do something unethical, then I wouldn't have my job. This is professional football. You shouldn't fault the league for not treating the organizations like they are being run by a bunch of irresponsible children. Teams are given the obligation and responsibility to act appropriately and when they fail to do so and get caught, they will pay the penalty much like the patriots will, much like every other professional adult will.

 

 

I give up.  This is tedious and meaningless.  You win.

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.....

 

Patriots are likely guilty of something, but unless there is video evidence of the ball boy releasing air from the game balls in a private room that he side stepped into on his way to the field, I don't think any real punishment will come of this.  I'm sure changes in policy will though.  

 

bwhahahahah!  You realize that Jay Glazer reports that there is video describing something very, very similar to your scenario?  Right?

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This deflate gages really getting to pape.

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Hah. Kraft wants an apology. If it is proven that Pats deflated the balls then Goodell needs to come down hard on them

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Hah. Kraft wants an apology. If it is proven that Pats deflated the balls then Goodell needs to come down hard on them

 

That's a total jerk move.  He knows something happened with his team and he's trying to save face to have a ball boy take the blame.  

 

That ball boy is going to be set for life.

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The real sad thing in all this is that the Patriots are better than the Colts 9 out of 10 times.  Why get caught up in all this garbage when you don't need the small things to win.  The arrogance is the problem.

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Birth of the Franchise - November 30, 1993
Death of the Franchise - November 29, 2011

Fans deserve better. Thanks for all the good times too many are in the past.

Who does Kraft want an apology from again? Looks like Goodell is more concerned with gestures by Lynch than the legitimacy of the game. If anything, Kraft should be thanking Goodell for putting it on the backburner

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The real sad thing in all this is that the Patriots are better than the Colts 9 out of 10 times. Why get caught up in all this garbage when you don't need the small things to win. The arrogance is the problem.

The thing is this... they didn't need to cheat against the clots, but cheating against the ravens very well could have helped them.


The point of this whole thing that espn radio really is ignoring is the likelihood of the pats having done this more than just once

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The thing is this... they didn't need to cheat against the clots, but cheating against the ravens very well could have helped them.


The point of this whole thing that espn radio really is ignoring is the likelihood of the pats having done this more than just once

 

If you look at the stats on fumbles back to 2007 when there was a rule change on the visiting team being able to bring their own balls....its very telling.

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If you look at the stats on fumbles back to 2007 when there was a rule change on the visiting team being able to bring their own balls....its very telling.

Exactly.

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What in the Wide Wide World of Sports is agoin' on here???

Hah. Kraft wants an apology. If it is proven that Pats deflated the balls then Goodell needs to come down hard on them

 

Kraft has no integrity either.  If he did, after Spygate, Belichick would have been shown the door.  No matter how many Super Bowls he won.  

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I was wrong about Trent Baalke. 

bwhahahahah!  You realize that Jay Glazer reports that there is video describing something very, very similar to your scenario?  Right?

I'm aware of the snippet of info that has come out, yes. No where does it state that there is video evidence of a ball boy letting air out of the balls. If you listen to Jay Glazer's comments at foxsports.com, he even says he doesn't think there is video evidence of that happening on the tape. For all you know, the tape may show the ball boy wheel the balls into a storage room and leave immediately and then come back a few minutes later and take them to the field.


You're aruging with me as if I'm proclaiming the Patriots as innocent when in fact the difference between us is that I'm 85% sure the Patriots did something but am urging caution about jumping to conclusions and you're 100% sure with torch and pitchfork in hand. Why don't you just let the investigation run its course? There will be plenty of time to beat up the Patriots over this if it's confirmed they are guilty without risking looking like a buffoon. You and your wadded up panties may end up being right about this, but I'm betting that you jump to wrong conclusions regularly and that your ancestors probably burned witches in Salem.

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I'm aware of the snippet of info that has come out, yes. No where does it state that there is video evidence of a ball boy letting air out of the balls. If you listen to Jay Glazer's comments at foxsports.com, he even says he doesn't think there is video evidence of that happening on the tape. For all you know, the tape may show the ball boy wheel the balls into a storage room and leave immediately and then come back a few minutes later and take them to the field.

You're aruging with me as if I'm proclaiming the Patriots as innocent when in fact the difference between us is that I'm 85% sure the Patriots did something but am urging caution about jumping to conclusions and you're 100% sure with torch and pitchfork in hand. Why don't you just let the investigation run its course? There will be plenty of time to beat up the Patriots over this if it's confirmed they are guilty without risking looking like a buffoon. You and your wadded up panties may end up being right about this, but I'm betting that you jump to wrong conclusions regularly and that your ancestors probably burned witches in Salem.

Wow...you just equated discussing something on a message board to the actual burning of a live person. Just wow.

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What in the Wide Wide World of Sports is agoin' on here???

You're aruging with me as if I'm proclaiming the Patriots as innocent when in fact the difference between us is that I'm 85% sure the Patriots did something but am urging caution about jumping to conclusions and you're 100% sure with torch and pitchfork in hand. Why don't you just let the investigation run its course? There will be plenty of time to beat up the Patriots over this if it's confirmed they are guilty without risking looking like a buffoon. You and your wadded up panties may end up being right about this, but I'm betting that you jump to wrong conclusions regularly and that your ancestors probably burned witches in Salem.

 

No witches (or anyone accused of witchcraft) were burned during the Salem Witch trials.  

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I was wrong about Trent Baalke.