A couple of other questions come to mind that I would interested in your input and the input of anyone with an opinion on one or both questions:


1. Based on what you have seen with Larry Warford both with UK and with the Lions, how would you compare La'el Collins to him as an NFL Guard prospect?


2. Regarding all of the Offensive Tackles in the 2015 Draft that also have major upside potential at Guard, who are your top 3 to 5 prospects at Guard? This wouldn't include pure Guards like A.J. Cann and Laken Tomlnson.

1.) Collins is an excellent run blocker, but Warford was a pure behemoth run blocker. Collins is more of a protypical LG and Warford RG. If Collins was limited to only the ability to play guard, I would have them rated similarly as late 2nd type prospects with Collins higher as LG and Warford as RG. Obviously, Warford has played at a 1st round level since coming into the league.


2.) It's hard to say with prospects that haven't played guard, but just off the top of my head from the top guys it would have to be Scherff, Collins, and Clemmings.

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I gave Gregory wins on roughly half of the rushes, which is obviously a huge amount for that matchup. Especially worse considering the way Gregory was able to get his hands inside Flowers and win with power despite what you would think being the opposite.

And yet the quarterback never once had to step up or evade a rush from Gregory in his limited snaps against Flowers.


You also like to not mention that it was Flowers who destroyed Gregory on the edge, springing Duke Johnson for the touchdown. There is a reason why Gregory was moved to LDE for the rest of the game after that. What coach would remove a player from a matchup he was supposedly dominating half of the plays? They moved him to LDE because he was a non factor and a liability through a quarter and a half against Flowers. It was the right decision as obviously Gregory filled the stat sheet against the RT.

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The Maryland Scherff game was 2 days after MCL surgery. He should have missed a month yet he didn't even miss a practice. It was bad but I gave him a complete pass for that game.

Huh? Scherff had minor meniscus surgery 6 weeks before that game. There was no ligament damage at all...

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Huh? Scherff had minor meniscus surgery 6 weeks before that game. There was no ligament damage at all...

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<p class="" style="font-size:28px;color:rgb(41,47,51);font-family:Arial, sans-serif;">Lance Zierlein retweeted Brent Sobleski

<p class="" style="font-size:28px;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;color:rgb(41,47,51);">Scouts say to scrub the Maryland game from your memory because of it.

<p class="" style="font-size:28px;color:rgb(41,47,51);font-family:Arial, sans-serif;">Lance Zierlein added,


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<div><b>Brent Sobleski</b> <span style="color:rgb(136,153,166);font-size:13px;"><span>@brentsobleski</span></span>
<div>Scherff suffered an MCL tear that required surgery, practiced on it a couple days later and didn't miss a game.
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I would be shocked if that was true.  Meniscus - maybe.... MCL no way.

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Face it, you, and a lot of other people, just looked at the stat sheet and saw a dominant stat line by Gregory and assumed it was on Flowers. 

You know I don't look at stat sheets. 

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I would be shocked if that was true. Meniscus - maybe.... MCL no way.

It was meniscus. But I understand his point.

Last season Scherff suffered a torn meniscus on one Saturday, finished the game with it, had arthroscopic knee surgery on Tuesday and then played again the following Saturday.


“I had an MRI Monday, knee scope on Tuesday, I practiced Wednesday and Thursday and then played on Saturday,” Scherff said at the Combine. “I owe something to my team. If I was able to play, I was going to play. They said two weeks or three weeks possibly. I said I felt pretty good Wednesday; can I throw my knee brace and helmet on and just do some drills. They’re like, ‘Yeah, sure, go ahead.” Thursday I told them I felt fine. They said it was up to me. So I wanted to do it.”

<a class="bbc_url" href='http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/02/21/scherff-shows-his-stuff-before-hurting-hamstring/'>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/02/21/scherff-shows-his-stuff-before-hurting-hamstring/</a>

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"Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he's a mile away and barefoot."

You did cherry pick his worst play against a top 5 pass rusher though. There were also like 2 or 3 other plays where he lost by a little bit, but did enough to where he still did his job.

 

Your problem is you are looking at the final results of the play. If Gregory dominates Flowers on a snap but the QB throws it away quickly, like in the snap linked, it's a clear win for Gregory. I don't care what happens as far as the other 10 on 10 players goes. 

 

https://youtu.be/iST3hv9XH4M?t=31

 

On that play Gregory wins the punch, gets Flowers on skates yet again, and was about to have him on the ground until the LG helps w/ the double. You say not a pressure, I say a snap dominated by Gregory. 

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Lance Zierlein retweeted Brent Sobleski


Scouts say to scrub the Maryland game from your memory because of it.


Lance Zierlein added,





Brent Sobleski <span style="color:rgb(136,153,166);">@brentsobleski


Scherff suffered an MCL tear that required surgery, practiced on it a couple days later and didn't miss a game.</span>

I have no idea what he is talking about. He injured his meniscus against Ball State and had surgery September 9th. The game against Maryland was October 18. You dont just play 2 days after surgery for a torn MCL. Meniscus? Sure. Derrick Rose is back playing playoff basketball 6 weeks after his surgery.

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Your problem is you are looking at the final results of the play. If Gregory dominates Flowers on a snap but the QB throws it away quickly, like in the snap linked, it's a clear win for Gregory. I don't care what happens as far as the other 10 on 10 players goes.

<a class="bbc_url" href='https://youtu.be/iST3hv9XH4M?t=31'>https://youtu.be/iST3hv9XH4M?t=31</a>


On that play Gregory wins the punch, gets Flowers on skates yet again, and was about to have him on the ground until the LG helps w/ the double. You say not a pressure, I say a snap dominated by Gregory.

Like I said, the pass was affected by the defensive tackle, not Gregory.


Gregory was still being blocked. Did Flowers lose the play? Sure. Was Gregory a factor in the play? Not really. Flowers did enough to allow the play to continue to completion. Every lineman loses a few plays every game. You act like this one play alone was so aggregious that its unheard of. He got surprised by a bull rush and bumped by his own guard. It happens. Like was said, Scherff got lifted vs Maryland, but you said it does count. He also got beat bad by Danielle Hunter in 2013.

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I have no idea what he is talking about. He injured his meniscus against Ball State and had surgery September 9th. The game against Maryland was October 18. You dont just play 2 days after surgery for a torn MCL. Meniscus? Sure. Derrick Rose is back playing playoff basketball 6 weeks after his surgery.

You are correct. The injury came against Ball State and he played the next week against ISU.


It was a meniscus injury from what I remember. The recovery time would depend on the size of the tear and where the tear is. You can't compare it to those other athletes unless you have access to the players medical records. Every person recovers differently as well. On top of they play different sports and different positions.


He is one tough dude. He was on crutches Tuesday, practiced the following day and played Saturday.


His poor performance at Maryland and blaming it on recent knee surgery is totally false.

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1.) Collins is an excellent run blocker, but Warford was a pure behemoth run blocker. Collins is more of a protypical LG and Warford RG. If Collins was limited to only the ability to play guard, I would have them rated similarly as late 2nd type prospects with Collins higher as LG and Warford as RG. Obviously, Warford has played at a 1st round level since coming into the league.


2.) It's hard to say with prospects that haven't played guard, but just off the top of my head from the top guys it would have to be Scherff, Collins, and Clemmings.

 

  Thank you for your well thought out reply.  

 

  While Larry Warford wasn't as consistent in the first half of his 2nd season as he was in his stellar rookie season,  a significant part of that was the problems on the Offensive Line surrounding him.   Then in the 2nd half of the season,  two separate knee injuries limited his playing time but he played at or near his rookie season level when he was relatively healthy.     Moving forward,   I'm very optimistic that Warford will be a Pro Bowl caliber player for many seasons.

 

  My take is La'el Collins'  best position would be LG,  which would negate the concerns about his arm length.    Because of the versatility Collins should provide,   I think there's a better than even chance he's taken in the top 20.   Currently,  I have him going to Cleveland with pick # 19 in my Mock Draft but I think he has an outside chance of going as high as the lower part of the top 10.

 

  Getting back to Ereck Flowers,  I think RT is probably his best position but his overall huge upside and versatility have put him very high up on my radar screen.  

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You are correct. The injury came against Ball State and he played the next week against ISU.


It was a meniscus injury from what I remember. The recovery time would depend on the size of the tear and where the tear is. You can't compare it to those other athletes unless you have access to the players medical records. Every person recovers differently as well. On top of they play different sports and different positions.


He is one tough dude. He was on crutches Tuesday, practiced the following day and played Saturday.


His poor performance at Maryland and blaming it on recent knee surgery is totally false.

 

You're correct.  I was just using Rose as an example since a meniscus is a lot more difficult for a speedy, violent point guard who is notoriously slow at healing than a road grading tackle, in general terms.

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I've been going back and forth in trying to decide how to rank the following 4 Offensive Tackles as they project to the LT position in the NFL: 

 

Ereck Flowers,  Andrus Peat,  D.J. Humphries, and T.J. Clemmings.  

 

It seems like a case can be made for each of them from 1 to 4.   I would be interested to see how you would rank the four as LT prospects in general and / or in a specific type of scheme.

Actually, from some mocks I've seen, Flowers seems to be rising as a day one starter on the right side.

In the mock I just did, I had trouble ranking them also.  But I went:

21. CIN - Peat (left OT)

23. DET - Flowers (right OT)

25. CAR - Clemmings (right if Jonathan Martin wins job on the left, left if not and Mike Oher starts on right)

27. DEN - FISHER (right OT)  *I think Fisher jumps ahead of one of them, here it is Humphries

33. TAM - Humphries (left OT) *Drafts OT Donovan Smith to start on right side in the 3rd

 

Oh and I had

9. NYG - Scherff

10. STL - Collins

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Anytime you have a round 1 guy fall into 2 there should be discussion of him being picking in round 2 haha I think our oline is solid to not have to go there in the first couple rounds

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Actually, from some mocks I've seen, Flowers seems to be rising as a day one starter on the right side.

In the mock I just did, I had trouble ranking them also.  But I went:

21. CIN - Peat (left OT)

23. DET - Flowers (right OT)

25. CAR - Clemmings (right if Jonathan Martin wins job on the left, left if not and Mike Oher starts on right)

27. DEN - FISHER (right OT)  *I think Fisher jumps ahead of one of them, here it is Humphries

33. TAM - Humphries (left OT) *Drafts OT Donovan Smith to start on right side in the 3rd

 

Oh and I had

9. NYG - Scherff

10. STL - Collins

 

 Everything you mentioned certainly seems like realistic possibilities.

 

 The Bengals don't seem to have any glaring needs.   While the Bengals don't have a franchise QB,  they continue to have a top 5 NFL roster.   IMO,  pick # 21 will be the BAP.

 

 If Texas DT Malcom Brown is off the board by pick # 23 and the Lions keep the pick,  Ereck Flowers would be my preference under the vast majority of realistic draft scenarios.   Flowers seems ideal at RT but offers potential at LT and at Guard. 

 

 I have the Panthers taking D.J. Humphries with pick # 25 but can picture them going for a number of different Offensive Tackles with that pick.   UFA Byron Bell signed with Tennessee earlier this week.

 

 If the Broncos draft D.J. Humphries,  I think he will be their RT.  Ryan Clady will probably remain at LT.    If Gary Kubiak brings his zone blocking scheme to Denver,  Humphries would be a great fit.    In my mock draft,  with Humphries gone,  I have Denver taking Cedric Ogbuehi.   He's another player who would seem to fit Kubiak's system.   

 

 With pick # 33,   I have the Bucs taking T.J. Clemmings.   The Best Available Offensive Tackle could easily be the pick in this spot.   Having said that,   the Bucs appear to have the worst roster in the NFL at this time.   They could take RB Tevin Coleman or the Best Available Defensive Lineman that fits their Tampa Two scheme. 

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I could see Flowers going as high as 9 to the Giants. 

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I could see Flowers going as high as 9 to the Giants. 

 

 I certainly wouldn't question the decision.   It would give them the flexibility of moving current RT Justin Pugh to Guard.   Pugh probably would be a better fit inside because of his below average arm length.  

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 I certainly wouldn't question the decision.   It would give them the flexibility of moving current RT Justin Pugh to Guard.   Pugh probably would be a better fit inside because of his below average arm length.  

 

Alot of people are mocking Scherf to the Giants but I think he and Pugh are similar players and they would be better off taking Flowers for the reason you listed.

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Alot of people are mocking Scherf to the Giants but I think he and Pugh are similar players and they would be better off taking Flowers for the reason you listed.

 

From the standpoint of pure value,  I'm currently going with Brandon Scherff as pick # 9 with the Giants in terms of what I think they will do.   Yet,  in terms of fitting their pieces the best,   I agree with you that Ereck Flowers would be the better choice. 

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