What exactly has been going on prior to 2014? Footballs were never measured for possible deflation prior to the AFC Championship game.


If you assume that the Pats were deflating footballs, then sure, it follows that it has been going on for a long time. But the footballs in question for
the only time they were actually measured were within spec with the gauge the ref remembered using. All of the text messages between Brady and the ball guys are also consistent with the possibility that they were asked to make sure the balls were exactly at the NFL minimum. And as far as I know nobody has confessed yet.

I'm no Pats fan and I'm glad the Jags won't face Brady in their game this year, so I'm fine with the suspension
. I just don't think the decision was valid based on the evidence. I'm also fine with the clots getting screwed by the ref in that game, but in fairness I think the ref should be fired for doing so. Anytime the clots get screwed is good in my book, especially after 12 years of concessions to Manning.

Speaking of text messages, when Wells asked for a second interview with the equipment manager to clarify a text referring to himself as "The Deflator" why did Kraft go out of his way to make sure he would never get that interview?

“I asked for a second interview, I said I would go to New Hampshire, I would interview him in the morning, afternoon night, I would do it whenever he was free. And they said not only could I not interview him, they wouldn’t even tell him of my request for an interview,” Wells said.

When Wells attempted to review Brady's phone guaranteeing to secure his privacy, and even allowing his agent to process the info from his cell and give the information over to Wells in hopes of clearing up the matter once and for all why did Brady decline?

Wells said Brady cooperated when interviewed but wasn't forthcoming in providing digital evidence from his cellphone. Wells said he told Yee and Brady that the quarterback would not need to surrender his phone, nor would investigators look at private information contained on it. He also said he told Yee he would allow the agent to find the relevant information and provide a printout, yet Yee declined.

Brady and Kraft were both given opportunities to get to the bottom of this once and for all and decided to withhold information. "More likely than not" because there was guilt involved.

---

"Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he's a mile away and barefoot."

What exactly has been going on prior to 2014? Footballs were never measured for possible deflation prior to the AFC Championship game.


If you assume that the Pats were deflating footballs, then sure, it follows that it has been going on for a long time. But the footballs in question for
the only time they were actually measured were within spec with the gauge the ref remembered using. All of the text messages between Brady and the ball guys are also consistent with the possibility that they were asked to make sure the balls were exactly at the NFL minimum. And as far as I know nobody has confessed yet.

I'm no Pats fan and I'm glad the Jags won't face Brady in their game this year, so I'm fine with the suspension
. I just don't think the decision was valid based on the evidence. I'm also fine with the clots getting screwed by the ref in that game, but in fairness I think the ref should be fired for doing so. Anytime the clots get screwed is good in my book, especially after 12 years of concessions to Manning.

Fair enough, we just disgree. Now out with the pitch forks and fire!!!

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OMG. :woot:

Lol well come on! Seriously with the balls in the bathroom!

---

What exactly has been going on prior to 2014? Footballs were never measured for possible deflation prior to the AFC Championship game.


 

If you assume that the Pats were deflating footballs, then sure, it follows that it has been going on for a long time. But the footballs in question for 
the only time they were actually measured were within spec with the gauge the ref remembered using. All of the text messages between Brady and the ball guys are also consistent with the possibility that they were asked to make sure the balls were exactly at the NFL minimum. And as far as I know nobody has confessed yet.

 

I'm no Pats fan and I'm glad the Jags won't face Brady in their game this year, so I'm fine with the suspension
. I just don't think the decision was valid based on the evidence. I'm also fine with the clots getting screwed by the ref in that game, but in fairness I think the ref should be fired for doing so. Anytime the clots get screwed is good in my book, especially after 12 years of concessions to Manning.

 

So its crazy to say that the refs checked the pressure of the balls and then he took them to the bathroom to deflate them.  The referees can't assume that people weren't cheating prior to the game?  They thought their job was done.

 

Even if they were tipped off, how often were they supposed to check the pressure of the balls?  They have other jobs to do.

 

You just seem like you are scrambling to justify their cheating.

---

So its crazy to say that the refs checked the pressure of the balls and then he took them to the bathroom to deflate them. The referees can't assume that people weren't cheating prior to the game? They thought their job was done.


Even if they were tipped off, how often were they supposed to check the pressure of the balls? They have other jobs to do.


You just seem like you are scrambling to justify their cheating.

I don't know why he is connecting one with the other.

---

So its crazy to say that the refs checked the pressure of the balls and then he took them to the bathroom to deflate them.  The referees can't assume that people weren't cheating prior to the game?  They thought their job was done.

 

Even if they were tipped off, how often were they supposed to check the pressure of the balls?  They have other jobs to do.

 

You just seem like you are scrambling to justify their cheating.

 

Not crazy to say that. We don't know what went on in the bathroom. If he deflated the balls in the bathroom he sure didn't remove much air, since they were in spec (one gauge) or within 0.35 psi (other gauge) at halftime compared to the expected pressures after cooling.


 

It doesn't take more than a minute for the guy at my service center to measure the air pressure in all four tires. That's shorter than the time spent under the hood on a replay review. So yes, I would expect the ref to take the time to measure at least a couple of the balls just before kickoff based on the prior warning plus the suspicious missing balls event.

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

Not crazy to say that. We don't know what went on in the bathroom. If he deflated the balls in the bathroom he sure didn't remove much air, since they were in spec (one gauge) or within 0.35 psi (other gauge) at halftime compared to the expected pressures after cooling.


It doesn't take more than a minute for the guy at my service center to measure the air pressure in all four tires. That's shorter than the time spent under the hood on a replay review. So yes, I would expect the ref to take the time to measure at least a couple of the balls just before kickoff based on the prior warning plus the suspicious missing balls event.

What are you goin on about? They got caught. Evidence indicates this has been ongoing. The franchise has a history of cheating. What's the point to your green walls of text, please?

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Say what? http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...er=ya5nbcs. That can't be!

---

What are you goin on about? They got caught. Evidence indicates this has been ongoing. The franchise has a history of cheating. What's the point to your green walls of text, please?

 

As far as the evidence is concerned for that particular game (you know, the only game in NFL history with post-kickoff air pressure measurements) there was no deflation of the footballs (one gauge) or minimal (other gauge). Using footballs that are in spec has been an ongoing problem?


 

I agree that the franchise has a history of cheating. If that's what you meant by ongoing problem then I agree the Pats have an ongoing cheating problem. But in this particular game the air pressures of the footballs were OK. Maybe they tried to cheat and failed?


 

I liken this to giving a person a sentence for being arrested for (say) assault a 3rd time, when the person he supposedly assaulted is standing there uninjured. But he had an ongoing history of assault, so therefore he deserves a long prison term after getting probation the first two times?


 

I'm interested to hear one of our lawyers' take on this.

---

                                                                          

"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

As far as the evidence is concerned for that particular game (you know, the only game in NFL history with post-kickoff air pressure measurements) there was no deflation of the footballs (one gauge) or minimal (other gauge). Using footballs that are in spec has been an ongoing problem?


I agree that the franchise has a history of cheating. If that's what you meant by ongoing problem then I agree the Pats have an ongoing cheating problem. But in this particular game the air pressures of the footballs were OK. Maybe they tried to cheat and failed?


I liken this to giving a person a sentence for being arrested for (say) assault a 3rd time, when the person he supposedly assaulted is standing there uninjured. But he had an ongoing history of assault, so therefore he deserves a long prison term after getting probation the first two times?


I'm interested to hear one of our lawyers' take on this.

What are you trying obfuscate the fact they have been deflating their footballs? What are you going on about gauges for?


"Scientific analysis was performed by Exponent and supported by Dr. Daniel Marlow, a professor of Physics at Princeton University. This analysis concluded that within the range of game conditions and circumstances studied, no set of environmental or physical factors could account for the loss of air pressure exhibited by the Patriots game balls. The scientific study supported the report's conclusion that the loss of air pressure may be accounted for by human intervention."


The guy calls himself 'The Deflator,' for crying out loud and has been since May 2014. You think the one game they got caught was the one game they cheated? Statistical analysis shows this has been goin on for at least 6 yrs.


Brady is a cheat. Period. He paid ball guys with signed memorabilia to deflate his footballs to illegal specs to make it easier to throw, catch and reduce fumbles. That's the long and short of it. Don't know what you think you are arguing.

---

http://nep.247sports.com/Bolt/Report-NFL...r-37257269

 

Linked to in the above article:

 


<div><a class="" href='https://twitter.com/AlbertBreer'>Albert Breer<span>Verified account</span>‏<span style="color:rgb(177,187,195);">@AlbertBreer</span></a>
</div>
<p class="" style="font-size:28px;color:rgb(41,47,51);font-family:Arial, sans-serif;">The task the NFLPA is taking on in the appeal letter is narrowing things to the simple question of whether Tom Brady cheated or not.

 

This was never proven.  The only thing that was proven was that he didn't let them have his phone.

 

NFLPA is breaking it down to it's simplest of terms.  And they just might win, based on the facts alone.

---

"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."

<a class="bbc_url" href='http://nep.247sports.com/Bolt/Report-NFLPA-has-drafted-Tom-Brady-appeal-letter-37257269'>http://nep.247sports.com/Bolt/Report-NFLPA-has-drafted-Tom-Brady-appeal-letter-37257269</a>


Linked to in the above article:



<p class="bbc_indent" style="margin-left:40px;">45]
<a class="bbc_url" href='https://twitter.com/AlbertBreer'>Albert BreerVerified account‏<span style="color:rgb(177,187,195);">@AlbertBreer</span></a>


The task the NFLPA is taking on in the appeal letter is narrowing things to the simple question of whether Tom Brady cheated or not.



This was never proven. The only thing that was proven was that he didn't let them have his phone.


NFLPA is breaking it down to it's simplest of terms. And they just might win, based on the facts alone.

"Conduct detrimental to the league" is a broad term. Not cooperating with an investigation would fall under this term and will potentially ruin Brady's appeal.

---

"Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he's a mile away and barefoot."

What are you trying obfuscate the fact they have been deflating their footballs? What are you going on about gauges for?


"Scientific analysis was performed by Exponent and supported by Dr. Daniel Marlow, a professor of Physics at Princeton University. This analysis concluded that within the range of game conditions and circumstances studied, no set of environmental or physical factors could account for the loss of air pressure exhibited by the Patriots game balls. The scientific study supported the report's conclusion that the loss of air pressure may be accounted for by human intervention."


The guy calls himself 'The Deflator,' for crying out loud and has been since May 2014. You think the one game they got caught was the one game they cheated? Statistical analysis shows this has been goin on for at least 6 yrs.


Brady is a cheat. Period. He paid ball guys with signed memorabilia to deflate his footballs to illegal specs to make it easier to throw, catch and reduce fumbles. That's the long and short of it. Don't know what you think you are arguing.

 

From the text of the report (p 113):


 

"According to Exponent, based on the most likely pressure and temperature values for the Patriots game balls on the day of the AFC Championship Game (i.e., a starting pressure of 12.5 psi, a starting temperature of between 67 and 71 degrees and a final temperature of 48 degrees), the Ideal Gas Law predicts that the Patriots balls should have measured between 11.52 and 11.32 psi at the end of the first half, just before they were brought back into the Officials Locker Room. Most of the individual Patriots measurements recorded at halftime, however, were lower than the range predicted by the Ideal Gas Law. Indeed, once Exponent converted the game day measurements recorded for each gauge into a corresponding “Master Gauge” pressure (in order to provide for a direct comparison with the results predicted by the calculations), the measurements for all but three of the Patriots game balls, as measured by both gauges, were lower than the range predicted by the Ideal Gas Law."


 

But the pressures recorded for the Pats balls at halftime by the same gauge that Anderson remembered using before the game were: 11.8; 11.2; 11.5; 11.0; 11.45; 11.95; 12.3; 11.55; 11.35; 10.9; 11.35 (page 68 of the report

). I can look at those numbers and see that three are below the range predicted by the ideal gas law, four are above the range, and four are within the range. Why would you accept what someone has concluded when you can look at the actual numbers and come to a different conclusion. Do your own analysis!

 

Florio has a good write up explaining things. One thing he explains is why Walt Anderson was not criticized for his failure to test the pressure after the balls went missing.


 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...-unfolded/

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

From the text of the report (p 113):


"According to Exponent, based on the most likely pressure and temperature values for the Patriots game balls on the day of the AFC Championship Game (i.e., a starting pressure of 12.5 psi, a starting temperature of between 67 and 71 degrees and a final temperature of 48 degrees), the Ideal Gas Law predicts that the Patriots balls should have measured between 11.52 and 11.32 psi at the end of the first half, just before they were brought back into the Officials Locker Room. Most of the individual Patriots measurements recorded at halftime, however, were lower than the range predicted by the Ideal Gas Law. Indeed, once Exponent converted the game day measurements recorded for each gauge into a corresponding “Master Gauge” pressure (in order to provide for a direct comparison with the results predicted by the calculations), the measurements for all but three of the Patriots game balls, as measured by both gauges, were lower than the range predicted by the Ideal Gas Law."


But the pressures recorded for the Pats balls at halftime by the same gauge that Anderson remembered using before the game were: <span style="font-family:arial;">11.8; 11.2; 11.5; 11.0; 11.45; 11.95; 12.3; 11.55; 11.35; 10.9; 11.35 (page 68 of the report

</span>). I can look at those numbers and see that three are below the range predicted by the ideal gas law, four are above the range, and four are within the range. Why would you accept what someone has concluded when you can look at the actual numbers and come to a different conclusion. Do your own analysis!

Florio has a good write up explaining things. One thing he explains is why Walt Anderson was not criticized for his failure to test the pressure after the balls went missing.


<a class="bbc_url" href='http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/13/a-theory-on-how-deflategate-initially-unfolded/'>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/13/a-theory-on-how-deflategate-initially-unfolded/</a>

<a class="bbc_url" href='http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/10/pressure-gauge-discrepancies-undermine-wells-report/'>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/10/pressure-gauge-discrepancies-undermine-wells-report/</a>


He doesn't actually remember what gauge was used.


Here is a better understanding direct from Mike Florio (no 'analysis' needed):


"By assuming that the gauge that generates the lower readings was used before the game began, the readings taken by that same gauge at halftime show that one ball was above the predicted range, two were in the predicted range, and eight were below the predicted range. Which is more consistent with the conclusion that some degree of tampering occurred.


So, basically, the scientific proof of tampering hinges on a literal coin flip between the pressure gauge that generated a higher reading and the pressure gauge that generated a lower reading. Apart from the very real problems inherent to the NFL using pressure gauges that generate such dramatically different readings for a key postseason game, the justification used to assume that Walt Anderson used before kickoff the gauge that makes tampering more likely doesn’t feel like the outcome of a scientific experiment. It feels like an effort to work backward to justify a predetermined conclusion.


None of this changes the fact that Larry and Curly exchanged text messages that point to a pattern of tampering during and prior to the 2014 season. None of this changes the fact that Tom Brady a/k/a Moe Howard may have a smoking gun or two lurking somewhere on his cell phone."

---

Yes, and if the other gauge was used before the game then the pressures were lower than the ideal gas law predicts. Walt Anderson remembered using the other gauge, but admitted that he wasn't sure about that.


 

In one case we have the balls falling within spec if the gauge the ref remembered using was the one he used.


In the other case the balls were about 0.3-0.4 psi below spec. 0.35 psi is about 3% of the initial pressure.


 

The report 
drew its conclusions assuming that the other gauge was used. This was based on what???

 

To me it's much more likely that the one which implies no problem was the one used before the game. It's more likely because that's the gauge Walt remembered using. I also find it unlikely that people would cheat just to remove a measly 3% of the pressure.

---

                                                                          

"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

Yes, and if the other gauge was used before the game then the pressures were lower than the ideal gas law predicts. Walt Anderson remembered using the other gauge, but admitted that he wasn't sure about that.


In one case we have the balls falling within spec if the gauge the ref remembered using was the one he used.

In the other case the balls were about 0.3-0.4 psi below spec. 0.35 psi is about 3% of the initial pressure.


The report
drew its conclusions assuming that the other gauge was used. This was based on what???

To me it's much more likely that the one which implies no problem was the one used before the game. It's more likely because that's the gauge Walt remembered using. I also find it unlikely that people would cheat just to remove a measly 3% of the pressure.

Whatever floats your boat.

---

It appears that Malabar wishes to argue the makeup of icebergs, while the rest of us are discussing the sinking of the Titanic.

---

I find this funny since air is hardly an Ideal Gas. In fact my memory from thermodynamics classes is an ideal gas is a hypothetical gas anyway. Also, air is a compressible gas yet if IRRC the Ideal Gas Law applies to noncompressible gasses.

 

Regards.......................the Chiefjag

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The best thing coming from this whole scenario is getting to see Rob say deflate DEEZ NUTZ

---

The overriding point still remains... the NFL had absolutely zero concern whatsoever about preventing the Patriots from deflating balls.

 

That's a real problem.  That's not how Tagliabue would have handled it.

 

Again, absolutely no concern about preventing rules from being broken, though they had reason to believe it may happen.

 

In places other than fantasyland, that's called being an accessory.

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"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."