When you bought your gun, what part of the process determined your ability to deal with split second life or death situations?

 

Well to carry a conceled weapon you have to take a firearm safety course that goes over all that, a long gun or just owning a gun is different.

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Make'em pass a test...just like you do with every other license you get.

 

You don't need a license to practice rights, only privilages require licenses and even then many of the privlages practiced don't require a license (ie the "right to vote" that doesn't exist )

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The best part is that most of the unlawful gun owners are not trained. That plays well in all our favor.

 

I train with my weapons quite often, I would hope anyone that carries a weapon on their person would at least have some common sense. 

 

I love the Gun Control folks...They can just go 30 miles out of Chicago and come back to town.. Yeah that how the criminals get their guns. I realize those arguing against them don't know how it works....You go to the gun shop, pick a firearm (usually at minimum a $3-400 purchase). The very first thing you do, is fill out a government form. They call the ATF/FBI and they check that you are LEGALLY able to own a firearm. You've never been convicted of a felony, you've never been adjudicated mentally deficient, etc...because contrary to some posts in this thread, that WILL CAUSE YOU TO LOSE YOUR RIGHTS. Then, at least in Florida, you get to wait for 3 days for a handgun unless you have a CCW. You can leave immediately with a rifle/shotgun which can just as easily, or in most cases inflict much more damage.(Another great gun control law...)  

 

Guess what you have to do to get a CCW? You have to take a weapons handling class. They go over gun safety, instruct you while actually firing your weapon, tell you the places you cannot carry (gun free zones, where most of the mass shootings happen)

 

My favorite things are gun buy backs. I like to sit outside them and pay $25 more than they are offering. Best gun show in town.

 

Anyways, isn't politics banned on this board?

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No idea.  My point was that data, any data on the surface will mean different things depending on how deep you dig into the data.

I will say that in my opinion guns are not the problem, but the attitude and intent of the person holding one is.

 

A bit of a late response on this but: The data that I'm presenting is far more significant and important than the ridiculous "predictive anecdotes" that are being presented and they delve deeper into the question than those that say that Switzerland has high rate of gun ownership and a low rate of crime, thus guns deter crime. We don't really have the capability to delve that much deeper into this, because we're people with access to the Internet, not governments with access to in-depth gun ownership statistics. Let's just say that with 270 million civilian firearms in the US, there SHOULD be more than enough deterrent if guns really did influence crime rates as many would lead you to believe.

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The best part is that most of the unlawful gun owners are not trained. That plays well in all our favor.

 

I train with my weapons quite often, I would hope anyone that carries a weapon on their person would at least have some common sense. 

 

I love the Gun Control folks...They can just go 30 miles out of Chicago and come back to town.. Yeah that how the criminals get their guns. I realize those arguing against them don't know how it works....You go to the gun shop, pick a firearm (usually at minimum a $3-400 purchase). The very first thing you do, is fill out a government form. They call the ATF/FBI and they check that you are LEGALLY able to own a firearm. You've never been convicted of a felony, you've never been adjudicated mentally deficient, etc...because contrary to some posts in this thread, that WILL CAUSE YOU TO LOSE YOUR RIGHTS. Then, at least in Florida, you get to wait for 3 days for a handgun unless you have a CCW. You can leave immediately with a rifle/shotgun which can just as easily, or in most cases inflict much more damage.(Another great gun control law...)  

 

Guess what you have to do to get a CCW? You have to take a weapons handling class. They go over gun safety, instruct you while actually firing your weapon, tell you the places you cannot carry (gun free zones, where most of the mass shootings happen)

 

My favorite things are gun buy backs. I like to sit outside them and pay $25 more than they are offering. Best gun show in town.

 

Anyways, isn't politics banned on this board?

 

I don't know a whole ton of topics have started to bleed into it as of late.

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The best part is that most of the unlawful gun owners are not trained. That plays well in all our favor.

 

I train with my weapons quite often, I would hope anyone that carries a weapon on their person would at least have some common sense. 

 

I love the Gun Control folks...They can just go 30 miles out of Chicago and come back to town.. Yeah that how the criminals get their guns. I realize those arguing against them don't know how it works....You go to the gun shop, pick a firearm (usually at minimum a $3-400 purchase). The very first thing you do, is fill out a government form. They call the ATF/FBI and they check that you are LEGALLY able to own a firearm. You've never been convicted of a felony, you've never been adjudicated mentally deficient, etc...because contrary to some posts in this thread, that WILL CAUSE YOU TO LOSE YOUR RIGHTS. Then, at least in Florida, you get to wait for 3 days for a handgun unless you have a CCW. You can leave immediately with a rifle/shotgun which can just as easily, or in most cases inflict much more damage.(Another great gun control law...)  

 

Guess what you have to do to get a CCW? You have to take a weapons handling class. They go over gun safety, instruct you while actually firing your weapon, tell you the places you cannot carry (gun free zones, where most of the mass shootings happen)

 

My favorite things are gun buy backs. I like to sit outside them and pay $25 more than they are offering. Best gun show in town.

 

Anyways, isn't politics banned on this board?

Most of us aren't discussing politics, we're discussing ethics and the statistical truths of whether or not gun presence is a deterrent to crime.

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I know I'm packin' heat.. Pull a gun on me for what ever reason, better kill me.. Cause you won't like what'll be fired off at ya  

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You play in dirt, you get dirty. 

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A mother of someone who gets shot and killed complains and suddenly it's whining? I'd want the shooting death of my child investigated properly too, regardless of whether he was being a "thug".

 

 

Everyone knows he didn't get shot because he's a thug. He was a thug, robbed a store with a weapon, and was shot in the process. You're misrepresenting of the situation is sad.

 

 

Being an armed convict does not supersede a person's right to life. Nor does it mean that the case can or should be closed without proper investigation.

 

The situation would be different if the store clerk was the one doing the shooting since he would actively be defending his own life, but reading the (woefully inadequate) story it was a bystander who wasn't being directly threatened who opened fire.

 

 

Actually, yes, it does. My right to safety from great bodily harm supersedes your right to rob a convenience store. No one is asking for an improper investigation.

 

Your argument that no one is "directly threatened" is irrelevant since several subjects were already threatened. If a subject presents a means and capability to cause great bodily harm to someone (robbing a store with a weapon) and attempts to flee, then one has the legal right / authority to end the situation with equal force. The court system has already decided that if ANYONE (Officer or otherwise) suspects that the fleeing felon has the ability and can actually cause harm to another, then they're justified in shooting that person.

 

 

Exactly, unfortunately stand your ground laws means shooting someone in the back is completely legal as long as they're "acting threatingly".

 

 

This isn't about the Stand Your Ground Law. Not that it matters to you, but the murder rate in Florida has dropped 36% since the onset of the SYG law--more than double the national average.

 

 

Even your right to bear arms? Because last I checked people who think like you were vehemently opposed to background checks for firearms.

 

I've mention this before; right are inalienable. A person's actions, no matter how horrendous, can not result in them losing their rights.

 

 

Most gun owners I know fully support background checks. They don't support the government's attempt to make it more difficult by increasing wait times, fees, any other pointless efforts to prohibit the lawful carry of firearms. The government had been proven to be ineffective in background checks. For example, approx. 10% of those denied firearm carrying licenses were incorrectly denied. Approx. 20% of those that were denied and appealed were then given a license to carry. 

 

Again with the "rights"... He doesn't have the right to threaten the lives of others. Despite you opinion, the law says this man was justified in shooting those criminals. 

 

 

I knew Chicago was going to show up somewhere in this thread. The reason gun control doesn't work in Chicago is because there is very little gun control in the surrounding areas. Gun control doesn't help if you can drive 30 minutes and still get a perfectly legal gun. It's kind of like attempting to reduce the smell in a public toilet by saying people can no longer poop in the middle stall, the stench is going to come in from the other stalls.

 

A better comparison would be the US vs Europe, and the US ranks worse in almost every major crime statistic, especially gun violence.

 

 

You couldn't be more wrong. 

 

Your argument doesn't address an increased use of weapons to commit murders. 

 

Having actual experience in this conversation, I've never arrested anyone that was lawfully carrying a firearm (if they used or attempted to use a firearm). Never. Obviously, it happens but its so rare that it's almost meaningless. On a side note, I work in one of the more dangerous areas in Georgia. The only reason the murder rate isn't in line with European countries is because of gang-on-gang violence. Your "average" person isn't at the same risk as members affiliated with criminal gangs.

 

As for your other claim, the US is lower than or equal to many European countries in robberies, kidnapping, rapes, other "major crimes". In fact the US has a lower murder rate than a lot of European countries. I think it's interesting that you say gun violence. While gun violence is higher here, the murder rate is lower. 

 

If you avoid cities like Chicago, St. Luis, Oakland, bla bla bla... then you're as safe here as anywhere in Europe. 

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Make'em pass a test...just like you do with every other license you get.

 

In Maryland you got to pass a test and qualify before you even can own a hand gun

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Anyways, isn't politics banned on this board?

 

I'm actually impressed at how this thread has walked the tightrope.  No one's mentioned any political party, complained about the government, or even mentioned any lobbying organization.  It's a thread about culture, really.  A polarizing culture to be sure, embraced by many and repugnant to many.

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I'm actually impressed at how this thread has walked the tightrope.  No one's mentioned any political party, complained about the government, or even mentioned any lobbying organization.  It's a thread about culture, really.  A polarizing culture to be sure, embraced by many and repugnant to many.

Yeah it's walking a very thin line!

 

Anyhoo, speaking of murder rates in EU...The gun murder rate is lower. BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE GUNS. The knife, hammer, and poke in the eye murder rate is higher.

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Yeah it's walking a very thin line!


Anyhoo, speaking of murder rates in EU...The gun murder rate is lower. BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE GUNS. The knife, hammer, and poke in the eye murder rate is higher.

I thought murders in Europe were attributed to slap fights? (With the exception of our UK cousins).

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I thought murders in Europe were attributed to slap fights? (With the exception of our UK cousins).

And hugging each other to death.

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I'm actually impressed at how this thread has walked the tightrope.  No one's mentioned any political party, complained about the government, or even mentioned any lobbying organization.  It's a thread about culture, really.  A polarizing culture to be sure, embraced by many and repugnant to many.

I'm impressed too. But, we can't debate the whole topic which kinda sucks. I have been good and trying not to post in here for that reason.

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And hugging each other to death.

Then don't come to my house. Here money is no good. I pay out and charge in hugs!!

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Then don't come to my house. Here money is no good. I pay out and charge in hugs!!

Ewwwwuh!

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Ewwwwuh!

Don't be grossed out. come here, a lil closer. This isn't anything a hug can't fix.

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Not getting into the gun debate, but I don't think it's ever wrong to feel a little sympathy when a young person loses his life. Who knows what was going through his head or what kind of issues he may have had. Not condoning the actions in any way, and I'm not going to go so far as to say that I wouldn't shoot someone who was threatening me. 

 

But empathy is never a bad thing. 

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Live long and prosper \\// 

Don't be grossed out. come here, a lil closer. This isn't anything a hug can't fix.

Okay, but just to warn you that if we hug you'll walk away minus a wallet while gaining a "KICK ME" sign.


Just doing my part for humanity.

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