The PC police are out in force, and want to eradicate our nation's history.  People on fringe groups are desecrating memorials and want our history effectively "erased".  I wonder which side of the political aisle they are on?

It's not "erasing" anything. The Confederate flag has a place: in history books. We're 150 years past the end of the Civil War. Why do people still cling to an emblem of treason and subjugation so dearly?

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Gee, can't imagine why black people might find the confederate flag offensive because the south wanted to keep slavery (which according to the VP of the Confederacy was the 'proper status of the negro').   Don't they know that the civil war was all about state's rights (particularly the right to own slaves, but I digress!)  Why the confederacy was an honorable group who... fought against.. .us, in the civil war.  To you know... keep slavery.  Yeah, can't imagine that at all.  They're being too politically correct about this.

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I was wrong about Trent Baalke. 

I think I've finally got my thoughts on the Confederate flag, particularly the "heritage" argument in favor of it and why that no longer applies in a post-KKK world, narrowed down into one question: How far would someone get trying to run a swastika up a flagpole in this country, using the argument that it was a sacred symbol in Eastern religions for 10,000 years before Hitler got his hands on it?

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As far as I know, the flag flies over a memorial to the confederate soldiers lost during the war.  The "offense" that people take from that is because the Civil War was "about slavery" and thus the Confederate Flag is "racist" and "offensive".  No actual reference or news reports give a really honest answer,

 

To give you an answer, yes the flag flies (flew) over a burial ground and memorial of those that were lost during the Civil War.

 

The PC police are out in force, and want to eradicate our nation's history.  People on fringe groups are desecrating memorials and want our history effectively "erased".  I wonder which side of the political aisle they are on?

Well, I would agree that there is too much focus on what the flag now represents.  I've even heard it compared to the Nazi flag.  Yeah, slavery is evil, but systematic genocide - that's REALLY evil.  There's an element of hyperbole to the meaning of the battle cross that manifests a hysteria I usually see out of the other political wing in this country

 

There is precedent to our nation honoring the dead in a manner customary with their beliefs.  In the 70s, Project Azorian was an attempt to raise a Russian submarine from the bottom of the Pacific, an interesting story in it's own right.  The salvage mission recovered 6 Russian crewmembers which were given a full burial-at-sea ceremony with the USSR flag and national anthem, all sanctioned by the US government.  That would be the same US government that called them "The Evil Empire" not a decade later, but there were our troops on video, saluting in the shadow of hammer and sickle.

 

Y'know what?  It was the right thing to do.  You honor a country's dead with the flag they died under.  Unless of course, you live in Germany....

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Gee, can't imagine why black people might find the confederate flag offensive because the south wanted to keep slavery (which according to the VP of the Confederacy was the 'proper status of the negro').   Don't they know that the civil war was all about state's rights (particularly the right to own slaves, but I digress!)  Why the confederacy was an honorable group who... fought against.. .us, in the civil war.  To you know... keep slavery.  Yeah, can't imagine that at all.  They're being too politically correct about this.

There was slavery in the north too. Also, Lincoln stated in the fourth debate with Douglas that:

 

"I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races – that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything.”-Abraham Lincoln 1858.

 

http://www.bartleby.com/251/41.html

 

 

Just saying'

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That's a really silly question. If you disagree, say so. We'll just ignore the numerous videos posted by people who were taking part in a "challenge" who trampled and defaced the flag. That obviously didn't happen in your world unless I produce names.



Once again, proving my point that you are not really ranked among the thinkers on this board. Leave clever to those who can.


In both instances, people are entitled to do as they please. That pesky document you swore to uphold when you were trying to qualify for the GI Bill say so.

+1 childish bully points. What do you get when you rank up?

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My point is this, and it may be a bit more apple to apple than you perceived:

 

The soldiers fought for their country, but more than that, their unit, their family, their home.  They fought for a belief, which is no different than fighting for what one thinks his higher power wants of him.  To then take the winning flag and fly it over their resting place is kinda disrespectful.

 

And yes, I know slavery is disrespectful too.  But it does not exist any more in this country, no matter what manner of flag flies over the graves of the men who fought for it.

 

The Star of David analogy actually has some root in fact.  There was a lawsuit to take down a cross on a western national burial ground because Jewish people were buried there too.  I'll have to look that one up, but the lawsuit involved whether the cross was a religious symbol (which cannot be state sponsored) or a historical one.

 

I searched images of Confederate cemeteries, and every one had a U.S. flag flying over them, with Confederate and U.S. flags marking each grave depending on who is buried there. This makes sense. There is no C.S.A. The Civil War was fought by the Union side to preserve the Union. It would make no sense to fly the flag of the losing side over the graveyard itself.

 

The court case you cite is a confusing point. Both the Star of David and the cross are religious symbols. You would think neither would be permitted if religious symbols are not allowed.

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If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley


 

There was slavery in the north too. Also, Lincoln stated in the fourth debate with Douglas that:

 

"I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races – that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything.”

 

http://www.bartleby.com/251/41.html

 

 

Just saying'

 

As I posted earlier, the North fought to preserve the Union, the South fought to preserve their way of life, which included the right to own slaves.

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If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley


 

I searched images of Confederate cemeteries, and every one had a U.S. flag flying over them, with Confederate and U.S. flags marking each grave depending on who is buried there. This makes sense. There is no C.S.A. The Civil War was fought by the Union side to preserve the Union. It would make no sense to fly the flag of the losing side over the graveyard itself.

 

The court case you cite is a confusing point. Both the Star of David and the cross are religious symbols. You would think neither would be permitted if religious symbols are not allowed.

As far as Confederate cemeteries, I would have no problem with the battle cross being displayed.  Depending on the regulating body - if they are National cemeteries or monuments - then one would expect the US flag to be prominently displayed on the grounds.  In SC's case, I think it's on state property, not federal.

 

The court case of the cross for WWI vets is Salazar vs. Buono:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salazar_v._Buono

 

By the way, a short google search found several instances of folks trying to remove crosses from government lands, which will not help me win the "slippery slope" arguments with my right wing friends.

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Lee's flag over a NC State Confederate cemetary:

 

http://www.visitnc.com/listing/confederate-cemetery

 

Is this OK, or are its days numbered too?

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It's not "erasing" anything. The Confederate flag has a place: in history books. We're 150 years past the end of the Civil War. Why do people still cling to an emblem of treason and subjugation so dearly?

I agree. Not to mention it's the side who lost the war. It doesn't belong flying on any government property. It belongs in a museum. History won't be forgotten,

 

I also understand there's a lot more history tied to it other then racism, but it has become such a strong symbol of racism over the years. There's a majority who fly it for this reason, but like most things, they ruin it for all who fly it for other reasons. It also doesn't help that the media only shows it being used as a racist symbol. 

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TravC59, aka JacksJags. @TravC59 on Twitter
;
; "This is really good, you want a bite, Honey?"

Gee, can't imagine why black people might find the confederate flag offensive because the south wanted to keep slavery (which according to the VP of the Confederacy was the 'proper status of the negro').   Don't they know that the civil war was all about state's rights (particularly the right to own slaves, but I digress!)  Why the confederacy was an honorable group who... fought against.. .us, in the civil war.  To you know... keep slavery.  Yeah, can't imagine that at all.  They're being too politically correct about this.

The North also had slaves during the Civil War. They finally conceeded on the slavery issue, but wanted it replaced with indentured servitude. Maybe not a life long (for most like slavery was), but it was a good 10-20 years. Still cheap/free labor.

---

TravC59, aka JacksJags. @TravC59 on Twitter
;
; "This is really good, you want a bite, Honey?"

It's not "erasing" anything. The Confederate flag has a place: in history books. We're 150 years past the end of the Civil War. Why do people still cling to an emblem of treason and subjugation so dearly?

The people of England could argue our flag is A flag of treason. One mans treason is another mans liberty.


I know for you this subject is all about slavery but for Many people it was about a lot more. So there's really nothing more to say, the rednecks are never going to give up the flag and you'll never accept the flag. Neither is right or wrong and the flag is nether good nor bad.


If we really want to remove all offensive symbols we'd have to first look at our own Stars and Stripes but I bet that's kind of the point of all this for many.

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The people of England could argue our flag is A flag of treason. One mans treason is another mans liberty.


I know for you this subject is all about slavery but for Many people it was about a lot more. So there's really nothing more to say, the rednecks are never going to give up the flag and you'll never accept the flag. Neither is right or wrong and the flag is nether good nor bad.


If we really want to remove all offensive symbols we'd have to first look at our own Stars and Stripes but I bet that's kind of the point of all this for many.

 

Oh, I see - if some one has an opposing view they just might be anti-American, right? Maybe even a traitor, right?

 

Nice and subtle. And sleazy.

 

And who cares what the rednecks do? We're talking about an offensive symbol on government property - you know, buildings that are supposed to be owned and used by all Americans.

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The sun's not yellow, it's chicken.

Oh, I see - if some one has an opposing view they just might be anti-American, right? Maybe even a traitor, right?


Nice and subtle. And sleazy.


And who cares what the rednecks do? We're talking about an offensive symbol on government property - you know, buildings that are supposed to be owned and used by all Americans.

So your ok with removing the confederate flag because of all the horrors done under its banner but you'll ignore the horrors under the star and stripes?


Hypocrisy is fun until someone calls you out on it.

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The people of England could argue our flag is A flag of treason. One mans treason is another mans liberty.


I know for you this subject is all about slavery but for Many people it was about a lot more. So there's really nothing more to say, the rednecks are never going to give up the flag and you'll never accept the flag. Neither is right or wrong and the flag is nether good nor bad.


If we really want to remove all offensive symbols we'd have to first look at our own Stars and Stripes but I bet that's kind of the point of all this for many.

I'd like to refer you to my very first reply in this thread. It shouldn't be hard to find. It was the second post. Please read it and let me know what it says.


Also, please find me an instance of the British government proudly flying the American flag if you're going to use that as an argument.

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So your ok with removing the confederate flag because of all the horrors done under its banner but you'll ignore the horrors under the star and stripes?


Hypocrisy is fun until someone calls you out on it.

 

Nice diversion. Does that work on your kids? Who is ignoring the "horror under the stars and stripes"? It doesn't take much knowledge of US history to know were're not very "exceptional".

 

I'm talking about your "that's the point of all this to many". You know what everyone's point is? You know they have some ulterior motive? Or you don't like the fact that not every one is as wishy- washy as that "neither is right or wrong and the flag is neither good or bad." 

 

No, sometimes people are wrong, and sometimes, this time, the flag is bad. Was that so hard?

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The sun's not yellow, it's chicken.

Nice diversion. Does that work on your kids? Who is ignoring the "horror under the stars and stripes"? It doesn't take much knowledge of US history to know were're not very "exceptional".


I'm talking about your "that's the point of all this to many". You know what everyone's point is? You know they have some ulterior motive? Or you don't like the fact that not every one is as wishy- washy as that "neither is right or wrong and the flag is neither good or bad."


No, sometimes people are wrong, and sometimes, this time, the flag is bad. Was that so hard?

That's your opinion and your entitled to it.


Louis Farrakhan has already called for the Stars and Stripes as the next flag to take on. So for some there is more, for some they just buy the version of history that claims it's all about slavery.

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I'd like to refer you to my very first reply in this thread. It shouldn't be hard to find. It was the second post. Please read it and let me know what it says.


Also, please find me an instance of the British government proudly flying the American flag if you're going to use that as an argument.

Just about any time we send a diplomat over or a sporting event ? They fly the American flag about as often as we fly their flag.

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That's your opinion and your entitled to it.


Louis Farrakhan has already called for the Stars and Stripes as the next flag to take on. So for some there is more, for some they just buy the version of history that claims it's all about slavery.

 

Classic!!!  Come on, you're better than that. So now you're using Louis Farrakhan! Is that supposed to make us hide under our beds in fear? Is 'ol Louie still alive?

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The sun's not yellow, it's chicken.