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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

The Duke boys never used the word honky?

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If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley


 

I see you still barely have a pulse going. All you do is bicker about nothing. provocateurs like you are soft.

I respect internet tough guys like you.


Your bark is real loud on a computer keyboard.


Thanks for putting me in place.

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Whether someone has a liberal, or conservative viewpoint, a authoritative figure should not lock a thread for the sole purpose to get the last word in all the while prohibiting someone else from being able to respond.

Doesn't matter what flag you fly or what beliefs you have, someone will always be butt hurt, and as long as this country caters to those butt hurt, we will continue to be a nation of pansies..

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Doesn't matter what flag you fly or what beliefs you have, someone will always be butt hurt, and as long as this country caters to those butt hurt, we will continue to be a nation of pansies..

As a longtime wimp, I am offended by being called a pansy.  You are so inconsiderate.

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As a longtime wimp, I am offended by being called a pansy. You are so inconsiderate.

Quit being such a milquetoast, namby pamby, milksop, pantywaist.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

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In light of recent events, the confederate flag has come under massive scrutiny. Stories such as these have came out:

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/06/23/us/...?referrer=

http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/22/politics/c...-carolina/


And it seems everyone has an opinion on it. Even from the most unlikely sources:

http://m.nbcsports.com/content/failed-re...ered-honor


Is it something that should be remembered or has it run its course and its time to be put away for good? What does the confederate flag mean to you?

 

Racism, slavery, treason, and anti-American ideals are the things I associate with the confederate flags.

 

Of their own volition, the confederates made their views on slavery and race known.

 

This from Alexander Stephens (vice president of the Confederacy) in his "Cornerstone of the Confederacy" speech:

 

 

But not to be tedious in enumerating the numerous changes for the better, allow me to allude to one other though last, not least. The new constitution [the Confederate one] has put at rest, forever, all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institution African slavery as it exists amongst us the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution. Jefferson in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the “rock upon which the old Union would split.” He was right. What was conjecture with him, is now a realized fact. But whether he fully comprehended the great truth upon which that rock stood and stands, may be doubted. The prevailing ideas entertained by him and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old constitution, were that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, socially, morally, and politically. It was an evil they knew not well how to deal with, but the general opinion of the men of that day was that, somehow or other in the order of Providence, the institution would be evanescent and pass away. This idea, though not incorporated in the constitution, was the prevailing idea at that time. The constitution, it is true, secured every essential guarantee to the institution while it should last, and hence no argument can be justly urged against the constitutional guarantees thus secured, because of the common sentiment of the day. Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error. It was a sandy foundation, and the government built upon it fell when the “storm came and the wind blew.”

Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.

(emphasis added)

 

Despite what many think, it wasn't about States' rights.

 

Here is South Carolina's declaration of Secession, in relevant part:

 

 

<p style="margin:0;">We hold that the Government thus established is subject to the two great principles asserted in the Declaration of Independence; and we hold further, that the mode of its formation subjects it to a third fundamental principle, namely: the law of compact. We maintain that in every compact between two or more parties, the obligation is mutual; that the failure of one of the contracting parties to perform a material part of the agreement, entirely releases the obligation of the other; and that where no arbiter is provided, each party is remitted to his own judgment to determine the fact of failure, with all its consequences.

<p style="margin:0;">

In the present case, that fact is established with certainty. We assert that fourteen of the States have deliberately refused, for years past, to fulfill their constitutional obligations, and we refer to their own Statutes for the proof.

<p style="margin:0;">

The Constitution of the United States, in its fourth Article, provides as follows:

<p style="margin:0;">

"No person held to service or labor in one State, under the laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in consequence of any law or regulation therein, be discharged from such service or labor, but shall be delivered up, on claim of the party to whom such service or labor may be due."

This stipulation was so material to the compact, that without it that compact would not have been made. The greater number of the contracting parties held slaves, and they had previously evinced their estimate of the value of such a stipulation by making it a condition in the Ordinance for the government of the territory ceded by Virginia, which now composes the States north of the Ohio River.

<p style="margin:0;">

The same article of the Constitution stipulates also for rendition by the several States of fugitives from justice from the other States.

The General Government, as the common agent, passed laws to carry into effect these stipulations of the States. For many years these laws were executed. But an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery, has led to a disregard of their obligations, and the laws of the General Government have ceased to effect the objects of the Constitution. The States of Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New York, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin and Iowa, have enacted laws which either nullify the Acts of Congress or render useless any attempt to execute them. In many of these States the fugitive is discharged from service or labor claimed, and in none of them has the State Government complied with the stipulation made in the Constitution. The State of New Jersey, at an early day, passed a law in conformity with her constitutional obligation; but the current of anti-slavery feeling has led her more recently to enact laws which render inoperative the remedies provided by her own law and by the laws of Congress. In the State of New York even the right of transit for a slave has been denied by her tribunals; and the States of Ohio and Iowa have refused to surrender to justice fugitives charged with murder, and with inciting servile insurrection in the State of Virginia. Thus the constituted compact has been deliberately broken and disregarded by the non-slaveholding States, and the consequence follows that South Carolina is released from her obligation.

(emphasis added)

South Carolina specifically calls out these states for exercising States' Rights in not enforcing provisions of the Fugitive Slave Act and other Slavery related laws.

 

This from Mississippi...

 

 

<p style="margin:0;">In the momentous step, which our State has taken of dissolving its connection with the government of which we so long formed a part, it is but just that we should declare the prominent reasons which have induced our course.

<p style="margin:0;"> 

<p style="margin:0;">Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery - the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product, which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin.

<p style="margin:0;"> 

(emphasis added)

 

So we know the principles for which the Confederacy was founded from the Confederates' own words.

 

What about the flag itself?

 

We know the "Stars and Bars" was not the official flag of the Confederacy.  Nevertheless, we know it was adopted by part of the Confederate army in battle.  The Confederacy never repudiated its use by the army who advanced the Confederacy's aims in battle.  Its designer, William Thompson, is quoted thusly:

 

 

As a people we are fighting to maintain the heavenly ordained supremacy of the white man over the inferior or colored race; a white flag would thus be emblematical of our cause...Such a flag would be a suitable emblem of our young confederacy, and sustained by the brave hearts and strong arms of the south, it would soon take rank among the proudest ensigns of the nations, and be hailed by the civilized world as THE WHITE MAN’S FLAG.

 

(emphasis supplied)

 

The Confederacy was defeated and dissolved without ever renouncing the abhorrent principles articulated above.

 

Other than using Jedi mind tricks known as flat out denial, and meaningless platitudes like "Heritage, not hate," no defenders of the stars and bars and other confederate icons have managed to show a divorcing of the Confederacy or the flags the Confederacy adopted of its own volition from the repugnant and anti American principles upon which it was founded.

 

There was a reason that flag resurfaced in the midst of the Civil Rights era, in the aftermath of Brown v. Board of Education and similar legislation that ended "Separate but Equal" Jim Crow de jure segregation.  The same bigoted intransigence that resulted in the Civil was and Jim Crow led to the Duval County School board naming a high school after Nathan B. Forrest, a Confederate general and founder of the Ku Klux Klan, in addition to raising that flag, in defiance of the mandates from Washington.  The same unmitigated racism connected with the flag is the same reason the Ku Klux Klan-of all groups-is rallying to support the Confederate flag in South Carolina later this week.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

take away this right and which one is next  ?

What right is being taken away?

 

None of the changes, enacted or proposed- impact your right as a private citizen to display whatever flag you see fit on your own property.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

The situation with the Confederate flag is stirred by nothing more than emotions.  It's no different.

 

 

That dismisses the opposition to the Confederate Flag as purely emotional...not factual, historical, logical or patriotic.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

First off, all states north and south, black and white should honor the veterans of he civil war, they sacrificed a lot, and it was a defining point in this countries history.

Secondly, everyone that says "i don't know why southerners would want to remember should realize what the ancestors, their great great grandparents and family members sacrificed during that time period. And it wasn't just whites either, as many as 20,000 blacks fought for the south in the civil war, including a whole regiment of Louisiana volunteers, native Americans, and Hispanics also fought for the south. So the issue isn't nearly as black and white as you all make it out to be... Pardon the pun.


 

Do you honestly think whatever blacks fought for the Confederacy did so of their choosing, or out of firm and abiding belief that "slavery is the negro's natural condition," or for reasons other than a hope for eventual freedom from bondage?

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

The simplest way to put it would be to say the Union did not fight the south to abolish slavery, but the south seceded to preserve slavery.

 

Had slavery not been an issue, the southern states would not have seceded. Among their grievances, slavery was the single non-negotiable point.

Exactly.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

The problem is, that particular flag has been co-opted by overt racists.   It's hard for people to see someone displaying it and not think the person is saying "I am a proud racist."    I think people have a perfect right to display that flag, but I hope they understand the message people are receiving when they see it.   I think most people would agree with me. 

It wasn't just co-opted by racists.

 

It was created by racists, and utilized by racists 100 + years later in resisting racial equality.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

I still don't understand the insistence on using the stars and bars as representative of Southern heritage.

 

Let's put aside the racism and slavery associated with it for the moment.

 

The Confederacy lasted 4 years-give or take a few months-between 1861 and 1865.

 

To form, it tried to dissolve its association as part of the United States of America, the country we all claim to love.

 

It tried to defend itself against what it considered to be tyranny from Washington.

 

It failed.

 

It tried to defend the Southern way of life.

 

It failed, and many of its best cities were burned to the ground in the process. 

 

It lost 300,000 + southerners, and over 600,000 Americans total their lives.

 

The South predated the Confederacy and existed after the Confederacy disappeared.

 

Those who were old enough to fight for the Confederacy had existences prior to the formation of the Confederacy, and survivors of the Civil War had existences after the Confederacy.

 

Was the South so nondescript and devoid of culture, were your ancestors so devoid of distinction and accomplishment that a symbol of THIS four year period of failure, treason, and bigotry represents something with which you wish to commemorate them? 

 

Is that flag the BEST you can come up with to celebrate the South and honor your heritage?

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

NVM

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

I still don't understand the insistence on using the stars and bars as representative of Southern heritage.

 

Let's put aside the racism and slavery associated with it for the moment.

 

The Confederacy lasted 4 years-give or take a few months-between 1861 and 1865.

 

To form, it tried to dissolve its association as part of the United States of America, the country we all claim to love.

 

It tried to defend itself against what it considered to be tyranny from Washington.

 

It failed.

 

It tried to defend the Southern way of life.

 

It failed, and many of its best cities were burned to the ground in the process. 

 

It lost 300,000 + southerners, and over 600,000 Americans total their lives.

 

The South predated the Confederacy and existed after the Confederacy disappeared.

 

Those who were old enough to fight for the Confederacy had existences prior to the formation of the Confederacy, and survivors of the Civil War had existences after the Confederacy.

 

Was the South so nondescript and devoid of culture, were your ancestors so devoid of distinction and accomplishment that a symbol of THIS four year period of failure, treason, and bigotry represents something with which you wish to commemorate them? 

 

Is that flag the BEST you can come up with to celebrate the South and honor your heritage?

 

You can probably find the answer in your very own post.  300,000+ southerners lost their lives and countless more seriously injured which means they have a lot of descendants who relate with the "Don't tread on me" mindset.  If the North had lost and the South annexed the United States, you would probably see war memorials tributed to the North and US Flags by groups of people.  The history would probably be different too - probably along the lines of how we rose up against tyranny twice in 100 years.  The victor writes the history.

 

Just because someone doesn't like something, doesn't mean they should try and take it from people who do.  Live and let live and get over it.  I don't fly the Confederate Flag, nor have me or my family ever owned anything Confederate related, but I respect the right of people who do.

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Just because someone doesn't like something, doesn't mean they should try and take it from people who do. 

 

The irony in this statement is terrific in that it is being related to the Confederacy.

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What. Just because the Democrat Party supports the slaughter of lesser humans and the sale of their body parts? Apparently that's nowhere as bad as slavery.

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

You can probably find the answer in your very own post. 300,000+ southerners lost their lives and countless more seriously injured which means they have a lot of descendants who relate with the "Don't tread on me" mindset. If the North had lost and the South annexed the United States, you would probably see war memorials tributed to the North and US Flags by groups of people. The history would probably be different too - probably along the lines of how we rose up against tyranny twice in 100 years. The victor writes the history.


Just because someone doesn't like something, doesn't mean they should try and take it from people who do. Live and let live and get over it. I don't fly the Confederate Flag, nor have me or my family ever owned anything Confederate related, but I respect the right of people who do.

I don't think anyone is taking away the right for an individual to fly the flag.

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The irony in this statement is terrific in that it is being related to the Confederacy.

Haha so true.

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