and just what is it I'm believing in so strongly that I can't see past? I am open minded to other people's beliefs, but in the the end, just like most everyone else, I have my own personal opnions and beliefs and to those I never waiver...Most everyone else is the same in that regard...I believe what I believe and always stick to what I believe in,even though I can see other people's point(s), understand, and even respect their beliefs, but in the end, I never go against what I believe...You however argue things just for the sake of arguing and can't even bother to try to understand what others believe, and in fact don't even care about others opinions and beliefs, and stick to the vision you have created for yourself just for the sake of argument

 

Actually, arguing for something you don't believe brings you to a better understanding of it. Just like being a teacher makes you a better master of the subject, presenting a case for something causes you to learn more about it.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Of course I'm just a minister, what could I possibly know about the concept of destiny... :woot:

 

At best these discussions are academic, I don't need any enemies over such a trivial thing.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

you didn't bother to answer this part of my post...

 

"If it's already predetermined, then there is nothing we can do to alter it, so I can quit my job, become a public assistance dependant and ride life out on the system until destiny arrives, rather than work 60 hours a week and decide for myself where and what direction I want to steer my life towards?

 

Who chooses our destiny? Who said they could do that? What if I don't like my destiny? When does my destiny get determined? How do I know when I have reached my destiny? Have I already reached my destiny?"

 

It may not be your destiny to quit your job and go on public assistance.

 

Your destiny is determined by a whole bunch of inputs and situations.   Where you are now, who you are now, and everything that has happened before, that all determines your destiny.   Like billiard balls on a billiard table.   They don't move themselves, they react to inputs of energy from other objects. 

 

Because you are informed of the fact that your life will be a lot easier if you continue to work and struggle for success (however you define it), your reaction is not to quit your job, but to continue to work.   If you do not believe your life will be easier if you continue to work, then you might quit your job and go on public assistance.   This apparent choice is determined in part by previous inputs to your knowledge base.   That is how your destiny wound up being work and not public assistance.   That which has gone before has determined that which came after.  The knowledge is accumulated, you add it all up, you continue to work.   It's a decision, but it's not free will.   It's just adding things up and getting an answer.  2+2=4.   "Effort on my part = an easier life, therefore, I will exert effort."

 

You don't quit your job because you know what will happen if you quit your job.   That knowledge is a result of past occurrences: reading, talking, observing.   In that way, the past has determined the future.  

 

Knowing you have a destiny doesn't mean you cease all effort and just sit around.   That's a complete misunderstanding of the concept.  We have to operate as if we have free will, even if we actually don't actually have free will.   Because if we don't act as if we have free will, then we destroy ourselves.   That's why this is a mostly academic discussion that shouldn't have a whole lot of effect on our behavior.   And that's why we shouldn't overreact when we realize that we are simply passengers in this thing called existence.  

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Actually, arguing for something you don't believe brings you to a better understanding of it. Just like being a teacher makes you a better master of the subject, presenting a case for something causes you to learn more about it.

arguing to just to argue is classless...when one does not care or doesn't believe in the cause, yet argues in support of it anyway is in many ways similiar to hypocritical...

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It may not be your destiny to quit your job and go on public assistance.

 

Your destiny is determined by a whole bunch of inputs and situations.   Where you are now, who you are now, and everything that has happened before, that all determines your destiny.   Like billiard balls on a billiard table.   They don't move themselves, they react to inputs of energy from other objects. 

 

Because you are informed of the fact that your life will be a lot easier if you continue to work and struggle for success (however you define it), your reaction is not to quit your job, but to continue to work.   If you do not believe your life will be easier if you continue to work, then you might quit your job and go on public assistance.   This apparent choice is determined in part by previous inputs to your knowledge base.   That is how your destiny wound up being work and not public assistance.   That which has gone before has determined that which came after.  The knowledge is accumulated, you add it all up, you continue to work.   It's a decision, but it's not free will.   It's just adding things up and getting an answer.  2+2=4.   "Effort on my part = an easier life, therefore, I will exert effort."

 

You don't quit your job because you know what will happen if you quit your job.   That knowledge is a result of past occurrences: reading, talking, observing.   In that way, the past has determined the future.  

 

Knowing you have a destiny doesn't mean you cease all effort and just sit around.   That's a complete misunderstanding of the concept.  We have to operate as if we have free will, even if we actually don't actually have free will.   Because if we don't act as if we have free will, then we destroy ourselves.   That's why this is a mostly academic discussion that shouldn't have a whole lot of effect on our behavior.   And that's why we shouldn't overreact when we realize that we are simply passengers in this thing called existence.  

as I said quite a few times, I don't believe that destiny is pre determined...I believe that choices and decisions that I make, will steer my life in the direction I want it to head, not where some unknown  force has decided it will go...

 

I have free will... Free will is called choices in life...I can choose to eat Prime Rib tonight or tunafish sandwiches or anything I CHOOSE to eat...Some claim that decison has already been made for me without my knowledge or consent which I don't believe...

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Of course I'm just a minister, what could I possibly know about the concept of destiny... :woot:

 

At best these discussions are academic, I don't need any enemies over such a trivial thing.

Being a Minister doesn't make you correct...every heard of "Beware of False Profits...." and I'll stop there before I cross the line into theology in which I am very well versed...

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as I said quite a few times, I don't believe that destiny is pre determined...I believe that choices and decisions that I make, will steer my life in the direction I want it to head, not where some unknown  force has decided it will go...

 

I have free will... Free will is called choices in life...I can choose to eat Prime Rib tonight or tunafish sandwiches or anything I CHOOSE to eat...Some claim that decison has already been made for me without my knowledge or consent which I don't believe...

 

Yes, I know.   I just wish someone would respond with more than just "I don't believe it."  It's hard to have a philosophy discussion at that level.  

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Being a Minister doesn't make you correct...every heard of "Beware of False Profits...." and I'll stop there before I cross the line into theology in which I am very well versed...

The word you want is "prophets" and philosophy discussions are notorious for arguing from a position you don't hold. Name calling is a sure sign that you shouldn't be here though.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

lol. False Profits. Is that from The Church of the Almighty Dollar?

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The sun's not yellow, it's chicken.

The word you want is "prophets" and philosophy discussions are notorious for arguing from a position you don't hold. Name calling is a sure sign that you shouldn't be here though.

hahahaha ooops yeah that's correct...and the rest of your post is pure junk...when one is being a hypocrite it's ok to say so...Now there are a vast number of post that include childish name calling, but this isn't one...It's really not name calling when it's true...

 


Hypocrite | Definition of hypocrite by Merriam-Webster

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<div>www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/<b>hypocrite</b>
</div>
</div>

<div>
<div>Merriam‑Webster
</div>
</div>
a person who claims or pretends to have certain beliefs about what is right but who behaves in a way that disagrees with those beliefs.

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Yes, I know.   I just wish someone would respond with more than just "I don't believe it."  It's hard to have a philosophy discussion at that level.  

well once the replies to my posts become repetitive and add no value, but rather say the same "I believe this and I believe that", there's not much more to say...Philosophy is all about beliefs and non beliefs

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lol. False Profits. Is that from The Church of the Almighty Dollar?

actually its from a very well known book called The Bible and I can't say any more before I cross the line...The full text says..."Beware of false prohets for many will come in my name"... I can't comment any more on this 

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hahahaha ooops yeah that's correct...and the rest of your post is pure junk...when one is being a hypocrite it's ok to say so...Now there are a vast number of post that include childish name calling, but this isn't one...It's really not name calling when it's true...
<a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hypocrite'>Hypocrite | Definition of hypocrite by Merriam-Webster</a>



www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hypocrite



Merriam‑Webster

a person who claims or pretends to have certain beliefs about what is right but who behaves in a way that disagrees with those beliefs.

You really should stay out of philosophy class. Probably theology, ethics, and law as well; you clearly can't handle the concept.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

actually its from a very well known book called The Bible and I can't say any more before I cross the line...The full text says..."Beware of false prohets for many will come in my name"... I can't comment any more on this 

 

"Don't follow leaders and watch the parking meters."

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The sun's not yellow, it's chicken.

You really should stay out of philosophy class. Probably theology, ethics, and law as well; you clearly can't handle the concept.

just because you don't understand, doesn't mean I don't...it's quite obvious you have no clue to much of anything we have talked about

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just because you don't understand, doesn't mean I don't...it's quite obvious you have no clue to much of anything we have talked about

 

soap_box: "My thoughts on the unknowable are RIGHT! And your thoughts on the unknowable are WRONG!"

 

Keep pumpin' yourself up buddy.   

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

soap_box: "My thoughts on the unknowable are RIGHT! And your thoughts on the unknowable are WRONG!"

 

Keep pumpin' yourself up buddy.   

Don't need to, you just keep on showing your ignorance of certain subjects every time you type...

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Don't need to, you just keep on showing your ignorance of certain subjects every time you type...

 

:thanks:

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Answer this question:

 

"Can a dog be happy?"

 

 

Enjoy!

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Answer this question:

 

"Can a dog be happy?"

 

 

Enjoy!

 

No, only Gilmore can be Happy.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."