I'd like to add that there hasn't been an MVP for a non playoff team since 1973 when OJ Simpson rushed for 2003 yards. Also, 18 of the last 26 MVPs were QBs and the other 8 were RBs.


Does Rodgers win MVP if the tinhorns make the playoffs last year? I still think he would have, although it would've been closer.


Ultimately, I agree with Rico and Seldomrite the most. Watt had an unprecedented season, but still couldn't lead his team to the playoffs. Meanwhile, we all know what happens to the Packers if they lose Aaron Rodgers to injury after their 1-2 start last year. He hobbled around on one leg for most of December and still finished with an insane TD/Int ratio of 38:5. Watt was deserving, but not more deserving than Rodgers, or any other QB that throws around 40TDs in a season.


It's awfully hard to be more valuable than someone who's contributing 2-3 TDs a week on average, especially since points wins games (or so I learned in "rocket science school").

 

Of course Rodgers would have still won in spite of the texans slipping into the playoffs as a wildcard, because it's clear that he's the straw stirring the drink to make the packers a perennial Superbowl candidate. Watt is really good as defensive players go, really good. Still not good enough, though, to control the game from the DE spot the way an elite QB controls the game. Like I said, the texans would trade Watt straight up for any of the elite QBs with the possible exceptions of Manning Brady and Brees just based on their age. They'd wet themselves if the colts dangled Andrew Luck in front of them. It's nice to talk about a player other than a QB winning MVP, but it would either take an absolutely incredible year from Watt (think 25+ sacks and without most of them coming against really bad teams in games the texans have no business losing with multiple defensive scores from him and the texans winning the division in spite of their QB being horrible) and also a year of down QB play, like no QBs throwing more than 30 TDs and 4000 yards and winning their division. If the texans ever find a QB I'd say that Watt's chances of winning MVP go in the toilet because at that point he wouldn't be the guy winning games for them.

---

The "Watt isn't that good" crew remind me of the "Wilson is better than Luck" group.


Such foolish opinions wouldnt bit muttered if they played in a different division. But, alas, they are in the AFCS so we must pretend like they are overrated.


That being said I actually appreciate a lot of Treestone's arguments here. I'm okay with saying he is dominant but probably not THE best player in the league. Damn close though.

---

And while we are on the subject, let's ask Mr Tinhorn fan if he would rather have Watt or Luck right now....

---

The "Watt isn't that good" crew remind me of the "Wilson is better than Luck" group.


Such foolish opinions wouldnt bit muttered if they played in a different division. But, alas, they are in the AFCS so we must pretend like they are overrated.


That being said I actually appreciate a lot of Treestone's arguments here. I'm okay with saying he is dominant but probably not THE best player in the league. Damn close though.

 

The idea that Watt "isn't that good" is absurd, he's obviously a great player at his position. Most of the argument hasn't been over whether he's playing on a hall of fame level, because so far he is, the argument has been over the question of whether a DE can be valuable enough to actually win the MVP award, and so far he hasn't been.

---

Watt is crazy, but if all teams started over the first 3 picks would skip him. You build a team from the QB out.

---

If you've only seen him play against the Jaguars you'd certainly be forgiven for thinking so.

 

He literally had 10 of his sacks between the four games against the Jaguars and titans. If he could only play against us and the titans he'd almost double up the NFL record.

 

Fortunately he can be handled by good offensive lines.

 

0 sacks against Dallas

0 sacks against Buffalo

0 sacks against Cincinnati

1 sack against Cleveland

1 sack against Baltimore.

 

3 sacks twice against the Jaguars

2 sacks twice against the titans.

 

So, he's good, but he's definitely not unstoppable, and he's made his reputation against the dregs of the league.

The man does a lot of things that stats do not show.

---

Jaguars | Pacers | Purdue | Team USA

 

 

 

If you've only seen him play against the Jaguars you'd certainly be forgiven for thinking so.

 

He literally had 10 of his sacks between the four games against the Jaguars and titans. If he could only play against us and the titans he'd almost double up the NFL record.

 

Fortunately he can be handled by good offensive lines.

 

0 sacks against Dallas

0 sacks against Buffalo

0 sacks against Cincinnati

1 sack against Cleveland

1 sack against Baltimore.

 

3 sacks twice against the Jaguars

2 sacks twice against the titans.

 

So, he's good, but he's definitely not unstoppable, and he's made his reputation against the dregs of the league.

But how many TDs and INTs did he get those games he didn't get sacks.

 

Plus pressures and hurries count for a lot.

 

I'm not a big Watt is the best guy... I don't think he was MVP worthy, and I don't think he is the best "player" in the NFL.

I also think last year was his peak and anyone expecting him to break the sack record or post gaudy stats again are silly...

---

But how many TDs and INTs did he get those games he didn't get sacks.

 

Plus pressures and hurries count for a lot.

 

I'm not a big Watt is the best guy... I don't think he was MVP worthy, and I don't think he is the best "player" in the NFL.

I also think last year was his peak and anyone expecting him to break the sack record or post gaudy stats again are silly...

 

   Out of curiosity...what makes you think he cant repeat last years stats?

The dudes only 26 and it's not like offenses are just now catching on to his abilities,they've been double and triple teaming him for years now....to no avail.

    The guy will end up with at least one more twenty sack season,a record that will stand for a long,long time. In fact it may never be broken.

---

One could also make the argument that QB's accomplishments aren't as great as their stats because of the position they are in. Look at the top 5 DE's and compare their stats to Watt. Look at the top 5 QB's and compare them to Rodgers. Whose resume is more impressive?

---

One could also make the argument that QB's accomplishments aren't as great as their stats because of the position they are in. Look at the top 5 DE's and compare their stats to Watt. Look at the top 5 QB's and compare them to Rodgers. Whose resume is more impressive?

You can argue that, but more impressive and more valuable are 2 different things. It's pretty hard to be more valuable than a QB who throws 2-3 tds per week on average. No matter how cheap the stats are, QB's score points and points win games. If points were given out per sack, things would be different.

---

One could also make the argument that QB's accomplishments aren't as great as their stats because of the position they are in. Look at the top 5 DE's and compare their stats to Watt. Look at the top 5 QB's and compare them to Rodgers. Whose resume is more impressive?

 

You're going more and more off point with this argument. The fact that the rules are heavily skewed to favor elite QBs only makes them more VALUABLE. The stats on their own you can discount if you like, and think of them like the HR figures from the steroid era of baseball, but the value of an elite QB has never been higher. That's why, like I said, we probably won't see a player at a different position as MVP until either the rules are changed to reduce the value of the position, or there is a season where no QB has an elite kind of year AND someone like Watt has a career season.

---

   Out of curiosity...what makes you think he cant repeat last years stats?

The dudes only 26 and it's not like offenses are just now catching on to his abilities,they've been double and triple teaming him for years now....to no avail.

    The guy will end up with at least one more twenty sack season,a record that will stand for a long,long time. In fact it may never be broken.

Clowney will steal some sacks from Watt.

I don't think he'll be lining up at TE or whatever they did in goal line situations like last season a few times.

 

I just think the odds of a repeat season are against him

---

I was just making a point.

---

Clowney will steal some sacks from Watt.

I don't think he'll be lining up at TE or whatever they did in goal line situations like last season a few times.

 

I just think the odds of a repeat season are against him

Why wouldnt he be lining up at TE when it worked so well last year? 

---

Why wouldnt he be lining up at TE when it worked so well last year? 

"fool me once..."

 

plus, why risk injury to your star defensive player?

They won't NEED him to line up at TE this year.

 

Or shouldn't...

---

"fool me once..."


plus, why risk injury to your star defensive player?

They won't NEED him to line up at TE this year.


Or shouldn't...

If they believe In a goal line situation he will help them get a td then he'll line up. And he does help them. Hell he could probably play TE better than anyone they have on their roster and that's consistently mentioned.

---

If they believe In a goal line situation he will help them get a td then he'll line up. And he does help them. Hell he could probably play TE better than anyone they have on their roster and that's consistently mentioned.

We'll see...

:no:

---

He's the Texans best QB

---

We'll see...

:no:

I'd happily make a bet that he gets at least one receiving TD this year?

---

The arguments in this thread are hilarious.


I think what MVP means is the key. Watt may be the 'most valuable player' to his team. But the problem is, Houston isn't all that good of a team, so how much 'value' does he really hold in the league.


I hate Brady, but you take him away from the Pats and they're toast. You take Watt away and Houston is still the average to below average team they started out as.


Could a NFL defensive player win MVP? Absolutely. But I think it's got to be for a better team.

that makes sense. But under that same logic, Peyton should have won mvp almost every year he was in the league.

---