There are many on the right who ignore all the things that Israel does though.  In fact you rarely hear about it on the "left-wing" media.


Many countries in the middle east have terrible human rights records.  They execute Christians, Jews, Gays, and Atheists alike.  Their record on women's rights is appalling.  Their sponsorship of terrorism is disgusting.  And the middle east is the best example of why I would never ever ever want a Theocracy.  

 

Is this something that Israel does?  Do they execute Christians, Jews, Gays and Atheists?  Does Israel have a bad record regarding women's rights?

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

Sure.  But a common tactic often done by the left is to redirect the conversation when they feel that they have a losing position.  This thread is about the middle east and specifically Iran.  It has nothing to do with LGBT.

That's a common tactic amongst all of humanity.

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Sure.  But a common tactic often done by the left is to redirect the conversation when they feel that they have a losing position.  This thread is about the middle east and specifically Iran.  It has nothing to do with LGBT.

A common tactic of the right is to use a single instance and call it a common tactic of the left. 

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Is this something that Israel does?  Do they execute Christians, Jews, Gays and Atheists?  Does Israel have a bad record regarding women's rights?

His two sentences were separate thoughts and points. That seems quite clear. 

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Who is Liz Berney? The author of that article, who is she? Is she a noted scholar?

 

My background on the Middle East comes from multiple college history courses and textbooks, including a course specifically on the Middle East, taught by a Jewish professor whose contention (backed up by facts) was the the modern Middle East would not be nearly as bad as it is today if not for western intervention starting with the dismantling of the Ottoman Empire, and that the greatest mistake the west, particularly the US, made was allowing Israel to be formed, to continue to exist, and to support it economically and militarily at the expense of Arabic nations in the region. Her contention, and she backed it up well, is that Israel should not exist, and if it didn't exist, the world would be a very different place.

 

That professor, btw, is Jewish.

 

So to answer your question, no, an article written by Liz Berney will not sway me in the least.

 

So you are presented with an objective historical timeline and your immediate response is to attack the author instead of refuting said facts.  Interesting.  Even more interesting is that your professor ignores thousands of years of recorded history and pretends that Israel was invented yesterday and that Arabs and jews were all sitting in a row singing we are the wrold before 1948.  That does more to beg the question, who was your professor, than it does to prop up the quality of her instruction.

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1. We don't have "international masters", but we are now part of an international community. Insisting unilaterally on the way things are going to be no longer flies.

 

The purpose of US foreign policy is to advance our national interests and maintain national security, not sacrifice the safety of our citizens on the alter of go along to get along.  


 

2. The lead Iranian negotiator was shut down and almost kicked out by Iran for his conduct.

 

That;s just plain laughable.  The idea that someone was yelling and shouting at an international delegation so loudly so often and for so long that it had to be brought up the chain is ridiculous.  The first time that happened John Kerry should have walked out of the room.  The Iranians don't respect us, they care nothing for our interests and you still didn't address the fact that while they purported to negotiate in good faith they threatened the life of a chief international inspector to hide the true nature of the inspections regime.  


 

3. My position has nothing to do with emotion. It has everything to do with the way the world works, and the world is no longer America-centric. Iran doesn't see our prisoners as hostages. If Iranian citizens were arrested in the United States and incarcerated (I'm sure it's happened), would we be inclined to release them as "hostages"? The right wing element of this nation would not be satisfied with any deal that didn't completely cripple Iran, and that wasn't going to happen.

 

I've heard that long enough.  As i have pointed out before, that is a lie.  Don't try to cover up blatant capitulation with simply trying to demonize your opposition.  I have laid out common sense preconditions that should have been met before we sat down at the table.  The idea that those were cast aside is indicative of how weak our negotiating position was.  And when the EU ponies up a large military force to enforce UN mandates or better yet starts funding the majority of the U.N. Then you can call me about a non Amerocentric world.  


 

Iran can posture all they want, but the fact that this was an international agreement makes it that much more likely that the rest of the west will support us if it's violated, up to and including the use of military force depending on how severe the infractions are.

 

Just like the last dozen international aggreements that they have violated with little to no consequences?  Quasim Soelamani illegally traveled to russia to pursue arms.  Where is the EU demanding that he be held accountable?


 

 

4. There are lots of nations that don't like the US, and several of them are already nuclear powers. Should we go to the bargaining table and insist that they disarm and dismantle their nuclear weapons stores as well? How far do you think we'd get? We no longer control who gets a bomb, period. This deal will, at the very least, slow Iran down and give us legal footing to go after them if it becomes apparent that they have a nuke.

 

 

 

Invading a nuclear power is a TAD bit more complicated than that.

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Invading a nuclear power is a TAD bit more complicated than that.

Complications don't matter much when you are living in fear. 

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Complications don't matter much when you are living in fear.

And facts don't matter when you believe Iran wants peace.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

And facts don't matter when you believe Iran wants peace.

Facts don't matter when you believe the GOP wants peace. Since you might not get what I am saying, I am saying the GOP does not want peace much the same way the Iranian leadership does not want peace. 

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Is this something that Israel does?  Do they execute Christians, Jews, Gays and Atheists?  Does Israel have a bad record regarding women's rights?

Look around here first. Killings? Every day. Kids. Whites. Blacks. Cops. Thugs. Innocents. Some are Christians,Jews,Gays and Atheists. Right here at home. Woman's rights? Was it that long ago in our short history women couldn't vote?


We sit around and point fingers at other parts of the world...and all they need to do is pick up a US newspaper and think...why should we look up to these guys as an example?


I just can't see taking care of my neighbors problems...many who don't like me...while my own problems aren't taken care of.


Reminds me of Jimmy Swaggert.

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Blakes Life Matters

Facts don't matter when you believe the GOP wants peace. Since you might not get what I am saying, I am saying the GOP does not want peace much the same way the Iranian leadership does not want peace.

Not if peace means surrender. What you are getting is a fantasy and reality will be a mushroom shaped cloud where a million Americans used to live.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Look around here first. Killings? Every day. Kids. Whites. Blacks. Cops. Thugs. Innocents. Some are Christians,Jews,Gays and Atheists. Right here at home. Woman's rights? Was it that long ago in our short history women couldn't vote?

We sit around and point fingers at other parts of the world...and all they need to do is pick up a US newspaper and think...why should we look up to these guys as an example?

I just can't see taking care of my neighbors problems...many who don't like me...while my own problems aren't taken care of.

Reminds me of Jimmy Swaggert.

Yes, yes Murica turrible. We know.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Not if peace means surrender. What you are getting is a fantasy and reality will be a mushroom shaped cloud where a million Americans used to live.

The apocalyptic attitude would be hilarious if it was not so sad and in some cases welcomed on the right. 

 

Yes yes, be afraid, be very afraid. Thankfully some people are trying very hard to avoid the blood soaked fantasy the warmongers are angling for. 

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The apocalyptic attitude would be hilarious if it was not so sad and in some cases welcomed on the right. 

 

Yes yes, be afraid, be very afraid. Thankfully some people are trying very hard to avoid the blood soaked fantasy the warmongers are angling for.

Yes there are. Then you have the other guys trying like Hell to give Iran the bomb.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Yes there are. Then you have the other guys trying like Hell to give Iran the bomb.

Nothing like baseless rhetoric to stoke up the fears and anger of the yokels.

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Nothing like baseless rhetoric to stoke up the fears and anger of the yokels.

The facts of this matter have been presented ad nauseum. Iran is being given the path to the bomb, just as North Korea was. That people believe the results will be different this time is either naivete, ignorance, or self delusion.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

The facts of this matter have been presented ad nauseum. Iran is being given the path to the bomb, just as North Korea was. That people believe the results will be different this time is either naivete, ignorance, or self delusion.

Please present facts that Iran is being given a path to the bomb. What's that? You have no facts only opinions or assumptions in direct contradiction to non proliferation experts but supported by fear and hatemongers? Well gee

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Facts don't matter when you believe the GOP wants peace. Since you might not get what I am saying, I am saying the GOP does not want peace much the same way the Iranian leadership does not want peace. 

 

Why do liberals have to lie to try and make their points?  If there was a law against disingenuous attempts at moral relativism what would you guys do with your time?

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Please present facts that Iran is being given a path to the bomb. What's that? You have no facts only opinions or assumptions in direct contradiction to non proliferation experts but supported by fear and hatemongers? Well gee

 

What are you talking about?  The president of the United States said that the break out time in 10 years is a 0.  This isn't in dispute. 

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Look around here first. Killings? Every day. Kids. Whites. Blacks. Cops. Thugs. Innocents. Some are Christians,Jews,Gays and Atheists. Right here at home. Woman's rights? Was it that long ago in our short history women couldn't vote?


We sit around and point fingers at other parts of the world...and all they need to do is pick up a US newspaper and think...why should we look up to these guys as an example?


I just can't see taking care of my neighbors problems...many who don't like me...while my own problems aren't taken care of.


Reminds me of Jimmy Swaggert.

 

This masochistic self deprecation is getting trite.  "Michael Brown got shot so we should stand by and let Christians be beheaded on a beach somewhere."  Imperfection vs. evil ladies and gentlemen.   

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