I watched both qbs today, and Blake looked MUCH better than Mariota this week. It wasn't even close. Mariota was getting throws around "like a ragdoll," and he was erratic as heck. His best throw came late in the game when he practically threw a duck up for grabs, and fortunately for him a TItans player came up with it. Ultimately the game was lost when he fumbled handing it back over to the Browns to sit on the ball.


 

While I admit he suffered from several drops, his passes aren't exactly easy to catch. He throws darts similar to the kind of passes Byron Leftwich used to throw when he threw short, and they smack the receiver's hands. The guy has no touch. Blake has suffered drops with passes practically floating right into their hands. Blake throws perfect arcs with outstanding touch. Mariota throws a football like he's throwing darts.

 

Your last claim is so subjective its hard to even evaluate. You talk about his 'perfect arc' and how Mariota throws 'too low to get over defenders' but ignore when Blake had a throw knocked down by Grimes (only 5'10) because he didn't get the ball high enough over him. You can say he throws perfect throws all day long but that doesn't make it true. How about we look at the statistics thus far for the 2015 NFL season.

 

Including preseason (to extend the sample size):

 

Mariota - 55/83 66% completion rate, 792 yards 9.5 YPA

Bortles - 79/133 59% completion rate, 917 yards 6.9 YPA

 

Never mind that this is Bortles' second season in the NFL, with a supporting cast that the majority of poster's on this forum would consider to be much better than the Titans' offensive group going into this season.

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So let me get this straight.  Jags receivers drop more passes than Titans receivers.  The passes the Jags receivers drop are thrown with perfect velocity, arc, and placement and float beautifully to their hands.  The passes the Titans receivers drop are thrown too hard and like darts.  So Bortles is obviously a superior QB to Mariota.  Why didn't I see it before?

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We learned in the Sunday School who made the sun shine through.  I know who made the moonshine too, back where I come from.

So let me get this straight.  Jags receivers drop more passes than Titans receivers.  The passes the Jags receivers drop are thrown with perfect velocity, arc, and placement and float beautifully to their hands.  The passes the Titans receivers drop are thrown too hard and like darts.  So Bortles is obviously a superior QB to Mariota.  Why didn't I see it before?

 

 

I don't know that the Jaguars have dropped more passes. Mariota had a lot of drops yesterday, but I can see why. Leftwich had the same issue with his short passing game. The Jaguars young receivers are quickly improving. ARob did a find job of catching the ball last year, and was outstanding catching the ball this past Sunday, but last week and in the preseason it was like he was distracted. He was dropping passes that he had no business dropping. It's just hard to explain, as are virtually all of the drops Blake has suffered considering the touch on his delivery.

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'02

Your last claim is so subjective its hard to even evaluate. You talk about his 'perfect arc' and how Mariota throws 'too low to get over defenders' but ignore when Blake had a throw knocked down by Grimes (only 5'10) because he didn't get the ball high enough over him. You can say he throws perfect throws all day long but that doesn't make it true. How about we look at the statistics thus far for the 2015 NFL season.

 

Including preseason (to extend the sample size):

 

Mariota - 55/83 66% completion rate, 792 yards 9.5 YPA

Bortles - 79/133 59% completion rate, 917 yards 6.9 YPA

 

Never mind that this is Bortles' second season in the NFL, with a supporting cast that the majority of poster's on this forum would consider to be much better than the Titans' offensive group going into this season.

 

 

Fair enough. It's been tough to argue Bortles cause from a statistical standpoint against Mariota, Derek Carr or Bridgewater. We'll see how the season goes with respect to the stats. I'm talking more about what I see in them as I watch with my eyes. Blake can stand in pocket and elude pressure while showing the ability to make virtually any throw. He looks more like a classic qb than any of the above, and I do believe he's got what it takes to be this team's long-term franchise qb capable of winning the big game. What I see in Mariota is impressive as far as pure production so far, but at the same time would scare me as a fan. Those darts he throws remind me of several qbs who never quite worked out in the NFL, and his game against the Browns actually did remind me of Blaine Gabbert.

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'02

It's like some Jags fans just can't stand the thought of another team in the division having any success at QB just because of the Jags' bad luck with QBs since #8 was suiting up.  Hell, we've had our struggles since #9 played.  Still WAY too early to determine hit or bust for any of these guys.  Laugh all you want, but Titans fans are pretty excited about Mariota.

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We learned in the Sunday School who made the sun shine through.  I know who made the moonshine too, back where I come from.

Fair enough. It's been tough to argue Bortles cause from a statistical standpoint against Mariota, Derek Carr or Bridgewater. We'll see how the season goes with respect to the stats. I'm talking more about what I see in them as I watch with my eyes. Blake can stand in pocket and elude pressure while showing the ability to make virtually any throw. He looks more like a classic qb than any of the above, and I do believe he's got what it takes to be this team's long-term franchise qb capable of winning the big game. What I see in Mariota is impressive as far as pure production so far, but at the same time would scare me as a fan. Those darts he throws remind me of several qbs who never quite worked out in the NFL, and his game against the Browns actually did remind me of Blaine Gabbert.

 

But when did Gabbert ever have a rough looking day yet still throw for 250 yards, 2 TDs, and no picks?  

 

Since I was the one who started the comparison I should probably rephrase my statement that Mariota's first two games were as good as Bortles best two.  I said that before the Jags game yesterday where Bortles played his best game as a pro but a wide margin.  I still stand by the fact that as of 4pm yesterday, Mariota's first two games were as good as Bortles best two.  

 

Maybe people still dont like his potential but so far the production is hard to ignore.  

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________________________________________________
Scouting well is all that matters.  Draft philosophy is all fluff.

But when did Gabbert ever have a rough looking day yet still throw for 250 yards, 2 TDs, and no picks?  

 

Since I was the one who started the comparison I should probably rephrase my statement that Mariota's first two games were as good as Bortles best two.  I said that before the Jags game yesterday where Bortles played his best game as a pro but a wide margin.  I still stand by the fact that as of 4pm yesterday, Mariota's first two games were as good as Bortles best two.  

 

Maybe people still dont like his potential but so far the production is hard to ignore.  

 

Or how about Bortles for that matter? This was only the first time in his career he threw for 2 TDs while not throwing an INT. Not counting the game against the Dolphins, Bortles has only 3 games where he didn't throw an INT, where he threw for 2 TDS, 426 yards, 48/94 51% completion rate 4.5 YPA combined. Yesterday was hands down the best game Bortles has every played and he was still very mediocre.

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Or how about Bortles for that matter? This was only the first time in his career he threw for 2 TDs while not throwing an INT. Not counting the game against the Dolphins, Bortles has only 3 games where he didn't throw an INT, where he threw for 2 TDS, 426 yards, 48/94 51% completion rate 4.5 YPA combined. Yesterday was hands down the best game Bortles has every played and he was still very mediocre.

 

eh... he was a lot better than mediocre yesterday.  the only real complaint was his comp% was low but a lot of that wasnt his fault.

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________________________________________________
Scouting well is all that matters.  Draft philosophy is all fluff.

Caldwell has always said that he believes that guys like Bridgewater will, initially in their careers, play better than Bortles.  Bortles was very raw coming out of college. He was selected because he has a higher ceiling than all the QBs coming out in 2014.  The plan was to have him sit last year and learn, and I still don't know why they didn't do that.  He played behind an awful OL, was sacked 60 times, and had mostly rookie receivers. 

 

Yesterday, with an improved line and Lee back, I believe we saw a glimpse of good Bortles is going to be. He's still a work in progress, and will get even better, and that's what excites me.  I do think he'll be a top QB in this league.

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I watched both qbs today, and Blake looked MUCH better than Mariota this week. It wasn't even close. Mariota was getting throws around "like a ragdoll," and he was erratic as heck. His best throw came late in the game when he practically threw a duck up for grabs, and fortunately for him a TItans player came up with it. Ultimately the game was lost when he fumbled handing it back over to the Browns to sit on the ball.


 

While I admit he suffered from several drops, his passes aren't exactly easy to catch. He throws darts similar to the kind of passes Byron Leftwich used to throw when he threw short, and they smack the receiver's hands. The guy has no touch. Blake has suffered drops with passes practically floating right into their hands. Blake throws perfect arcs with outstanding touch. Mariota throws a football like he's throwing darts.

 

While I didn't really see anything I liked about Mariota in this game, I disagree about touch. He uses it when he needs to and threads the needle when he needs to.

 

My take on the Bortles vs Mariota thing going on here: I was pretty high on Bortles coming out, but I think he has been massively disappointing. He did have a great game, in my opinion, against the Dolphins who stand a decent chance at fielding a top 5 defense this year. It's a great game worth talking about to be sure and if I were a Jaguars' fan, I would hope this is a sign that things are turning around. It is just one game, however, and it doesn't erase a consistent track record of disappointment. He plays like that consistently, however, and all those other games will be forgotten.

 

I wasn't very high on Mariota coming out but I believe in giving him a chance. That said, I saw a lot of things about his game yesterday that I didn't like. He also played against a stout defense that I think will definitely be top 10. The things I saw Mariota do that I didn't like were mostly how he reacted to pressure. He stared down blitzes. I even saw him do the good ole Jake Locker duck and pivot. His pocket presence was lacking. They pretty much never broke the huddle fast enough to make any pre-play changes. He played uninspired football and even had the appearance of giving up at times. He had lucky break after lucky break to get back in the game, but didn't truly take command. And again, it was just one game. I still look forward to what he will do next week because one bad game will not erase what he has accomplished or take away from the opportunity to prove himself.

 

Those are my opinions anyway.

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While I didn't really see anything I liked about Mariota in this game, I disagree about touch. He uses it when he needs to and threads the needle when he needs to.

 

My take on the Bortles vs Mariota thing going on here: I was pretty high on Bortles coming out, but I think he has been massively disappointing. He did have a great game, in my opinion, against the Dolphins who stand a decent chance at fielding a top 5 defense this year. It's a great game worth talking about to be sure and if I were a Jaguars' fan, I would hope this is a sign that things are turning around. It is just one game, however, and it doesn't erase a consistent track record of disappointment. He plays like that consistently, however, and all those other games will be forgotten.

 

I wasn't very high on Mariota coming out but I believe in giving him a chance. That said, I saw a lot of things about his game yesterday that I didn't like. He also played against a stout defense that I think will definitely be top 10. The things I saw Mariota do that I didn't like were mostly how he reacted to pressure. He stared down blitzes. I even saw him do the good ole Jake Locker duck and pivot. His pocket presence was lacking. They pretty much never broke the huddle fast enough to make any pre-play changes. He played uninspired football and even had the appearance of giving up at times. He had lucky break after lucky break to get back in the game, but didn't truly take command. And again, it was just one game. I still look forward to what he will do next week because one bad game will not erase what he has accomplished or take away from the opportunity to prove himself.

 

Those are my opinions anyway.

I can't disagree with anything you said. In Bortles defense, I would simply point out what I stated earlier: he wasn't supposed to play last year. He was too raw, and his mechanics needed to be fixed, and it obviously showed.  I may be in the minority, but I think he would have been better served spending last season at the same camp he went to this summer to work on his mechanics.

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Or how about Bortles for that matter? This was only the first time in his career he threw for 2 TDs while not throwing an INT. Not counting the game against the Dolphins, Bortles has only 3 games where he didn't throw an INT, where he threw for 2 TDS, 426 yards, 48/94 51% completion rate 4.5 YPA combined. Yesterday was hands down the best game Bortles has Boevery played and he was still very mediocre.

 

 

Bortles is a different qb this year. As a rookie he was prone to throw INTs early, and then later in the season his arm gave way to fatigue. This offseason he put in countless hours improving his arm and his mechanics. So quite frankly I don't even want to hear about his stats last year. At least in my mind, he has a clean slate to start this season to see where he's at.

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'02

EDIT: I screwed up my response to Psychop's post which is shown in a different font below with my reply immediately folowing

 

...

I saw a lot of things about his game yesterday that I didn't like. He also played against a stout defense that I think will definitely be top 10. The things I saw Mariota do that I didn't like were mostly how he reacted to pressure. He stared down blitzes. I even saw him do the good ole Jake Locker duck and pivot. His pocket presence was lacking. ...


 

Those are my opinions anyway.



 

You guys have seen that before too huh? And I thought Jacksonville fans were the only ones who had to put up with that.

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I'm trying to make myself more informed and less opinionated.

Stop saying whatever stupid thing you're talking about and pay attention to all the interesting things I have to say!

I laughed when people were going crazy over his week 1 performance against the Bucs. This guy is going to have major problems and will be lucky to be a middle of the pack QB.

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Bortles is a different qb this year. As a rookie he was prone to throw INTs early, and then later in the season his arm gave way to fatigue. This offseason he put in countless hours improving his arm and his mechanics. So quite frankly I don't even want to hear about his stats last year. At least in my mind, he has a clean slate to start this season to see where he's at.

 

That guy last year was supposed to ride the pine until the guy we have this year showed up, but that didn't work out. Fortunately that other guy hit the bricks and the new guy is pretty good.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Or how about Bortles for that matter? This was only the first time in his career he threw for 2 TDs while not throwing an INT. Not counting the game against the Dolphins, Bortles has only 3 games where he didn't throw an INT, where he threw for 2 TDS, 426 yards, 48/94 51% completion rate 4.5 YPA combined. Yesterday was hands down the best game Bortles has every played and he was still very mediocre.

It's clear you're just looking at stats and don't actually watch him week to week so why are you trying to argue with people who do? You're not going to win.

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"A man with no sauce is lost.

<p style="text-align:center;">But that same man can get lost in the sauce."

Bortles is a different qb this year. As a rookie he was prone to throw INTs early, and then later in the season his arm gave way to fatigue. This offseason he put in countless hours improving his arm and his mechanics. So quite frankly I don't even want to hear about his stats last year. At least in my mind, he has a clean slate to start this season to see where he's at.

 

Ok sure ignore the disastrous start to his career, but at what point does the body of work for a player become indicative of his overall ability and trajectory? Luck has had a rough start to the new season, does that mean its fair to write off everything he has done before that? What about when Brady/Manning struggled last year? It seems you have to include a player's overall body of work to get an accurate depiction of their abilities, and one mediocre game doesn't change Bortles' overall outlook in my opinion. Recall the original point was that Mariota's first two games of his career were as good or better than Bortles' two best games, and I'm still willing to defend that point. What do you think were the two best games of his career?

 

It's clear you're just looking at stats and don't actually watch him week to week so why are you trying to argue with people who do? You're not going to win.

 

This is obviously false, because I do in fact watch the games on a week to week basis. But humor me and explain your reasoning and how you drew this inference. 

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Ok sure ignore the disastrous start to his career...

 

 

I'm giving Bortles a clean slate because of all the work he put in this offseason to improve. What I'm saying is that I see an entirely different qb, so I choose to judge him as the qb he's become since putting in that work.


 

As for Mariota, I need to see if he has more games like he had week one before calling him the greatest rookie of all time. Teams now have some tape on him.

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'02

This is obviously false, because I do in fact watch the games on a week to week basis. But humor me and explain your reasoning and how you drew this inference. 

By the fact you're throwing out arbitrary stats and using that as justification for saying he's terrible and making wide generalizations (multiple INTs every game=pure trash, nope, nothing good about him) instead of talking about the nuances of the games and the context of what happened that resulted in those stats. I could literally go through every single game he played last season and give you the details of each pick and every play he made and why in context of what happened his play and the start to his career is not nearly as "disastrous" as you're making it out. Just from the way you talk about him I highly doubt you actually watch the games from start to finish week to week. Looking at cut ups of the game or switching back and forth from games or something and calling that "watching them every week" does not count.

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"A man with no sauce is lost.

<p style="text-align:center;">But that same man can get lost in the sauce."

I'm giving Bortles a clean slate because of all the work he put in this offseason to improve. What I'm saying is that I see an entirely different qb, so I choose to judge him as the qb he's become since putting in that work.


 

As for Mariota, I need to see if he has more games like he had week one before calling him the greatest rookie of all time. Teams now have some tape on him.

He does not look completely different from last year. Only difference is that his mechanics are tightened up again like they were at the beginning of last year and the play around him is pretty vastly superior.

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"A man with no sauce is lost.

<p style="text-align:center;">But that same man can get lost in the sauce."