Every situation should be looked upon differently.   I mentioned the Reggie White example as an illustration of what a truly great DE in every respect can do for a franchise.

still the 2nd most important position though, GB doesn't win a SB without Favre

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still the 2nd most important position though, GB doesn't win a SB without Favre

 

The Packers might not have won a Super Bowl without Brett Favre. 

 

 However,  I don't think they would have won a Super Bowl w/o Reggie White.    This includes the Super Bowl that Aaron Rodgers won in the 2010 season.    As many great football decisions Ron Wolf and Ted Thompson have made in Green Bay,   Reggie White was a trailblazer for the Packers.    I have serious doubts that Charles Woodson would have signed with the Packers in 2006,  if not for Reggie White signing with them 14 years earlier.

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you gonna keep beating that dead horse or you gonna provide some links?  the main concern/weakness from clowney coming into this season was his strength.

 

His strength? What? Clowney's a tank. Who doubted his strength?

 

And seriously, kid, is Google that hard for you to figure out? You seem to have discovered gifs, but I'm shocked that you even need links. This is the only thing people talked about when criticizing Clowney.

 

http://www.gogamecocks.com/2013/08/13/39...aches.html

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000...-this-fall

http://www.wltx.com/rss/article/245213/2...Resolution

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 However,  I don't think they would have won a Super Bowl w/o Reggie White.   

agreed, but were they even a playoff team without Favre?

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His strength? What? Clowney's a tank. Who doubted his strength?

 

And seriously, kid, is Google that hard for you to figure out? You seem to have discovered gifs, but I'm shocked that you even need links. This is the only thing people talked about when criticizing Clowney.

 

http://www.gogamecocks.com/2013/08/13/39...aches.html

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000...-this-fall

http://www.wltx.com/rss/article/245213/2...Resolution

i meant his strength against the run, he overpursued plenty last season.

 

you said those concerns was there throughout his career  :whistling: but they arosed during the season not before.

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hes been dominant of course but it seems the rest of the defense regressed as with the offense compared to last year. 

 

arod is elite but dont froget flynn had success when he started for him, compared to the reps seneca and tolzien as a packer i can see why they struggled. also look at new orleans with and without payton, and brees is an elite qb.

 

Perhaps, but even if the defense as a whole isn't playing well, there are only eight players in the NFL with a higher sack total than his. His numbers are down from his insane 2012 (20.5 sacks hard to replicate), but he's still on pace for a phenomenal season. If you're a fan of Pro Football Focus, which I tend to like but only as part of the story, they noted this before Sunday: JJ Watt has almost 3x the grade of any other 3-4 DE this season: 61.3 vs 21.0 for the next best.

 

He is undoubtedly a player the offense must account for every time he touches the field.

 

Flynn had success when he started for Rodgers, yes. One time. In Week 17 in 2011. He's also currently on the same Packers team that's opted to play Scott Tolzien instead of Matt Flynn. So why's that?

 

Sure, would Wallace and Tolzien have benefited from additional reps in practice? Probably. But the point remains: Wallace and Tolzien are not, at this point in time, on par with Aaron Rodgers, and the Packers are suffering as a result. I'm not sure why you're arguing this with me. The Packers lost their star QB and haven't looked like the same team since. They've even returned James Jones and Clay Matthews during this stretch.

 

I'm also not clear on your point about Sean Payton and Drew Brees. Are you arguing that Payton is the catalyst that drives Brees' success?

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On Wisconsin.

i meant his strength against the run, he overpursued plenty last season.

 

you said those concerns was there throughout his career  :whistling: but they arosed during the season not before.

 

Ha. Sure you did. Typo, right?

 

And no, they were based on his sophomore season as well. "Ward estimated Clowney played with all-out effort about 80 percent of the time last season. His target for 2013? Ninety percent."

 

Keep moving those goal posts.

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Ha. Sure you did. Typo, right?

 

And no, they were based on his sophomore season as well. "Ward estimated Clowney played with all-out effort about 80 percent of the time last season. His target for 2013? Ninety percent."

if you study most DEs you'll see that they don't see like they're going all out on every play, it's very hard to do

 

really if they make 3-4 impact plays a game, they've done their job extremely well

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if you study most DEs you'll see that they don't see like they're going all out on every play, it's very hard to do

 

really if they make 3-4 impact plays a game, they've done their job extremely well

 

Lorenzo Ward is Clowney's defensive coordinator, not a draftnik making an observation from the bleachers. He knows the amount of effort his players are putting in on every given down.

 

But Clowney at 80% is still the best defensive player in college football.

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Perhaps, but even if the defense as a whole isn't playing well, there are only eight players in the NFL with a higher sack total than his. His numbers are down from his insane 2012 (20.5 sacks hard to replicate), but he's still on pace for a phenomenal season. If you're a fan of Pro Football Focus, which I tend to like but only as part of the story, they noted this before Sunday: JJ Watt has almost 3x the grade of any other 3-4 DE this season: 61.3 vs 21.0 for the next best.

 

He is undoubtedly a player the offense must account for every time he touches the field.

 

Flynn had success when he started for Rodgers, yes. One time. In Week 17 in 2011. He's also currently on the same Packers team that's opted to play Scott Tolzien instead of Matt Flynn. So why's that?

 

Sure, would Wallace and Tolzien have benefited from additional reps in practice? Probably. But the point remains: Wallace and Tolzien are not, at this point in time, on par with Aaron Rodgers, and the Packers are suffering as a result. I'm not sure why you're arguing this with me. The Packers lost their star QB and haven't looked like the same team since. They've even returned James Jones and Clay Matthews during this stretch.

 

I'm also not clear on your point about Sean Payton and Drew Brees. Are you arguing that Payton is the catalyst that drives Brees' success?

flynn also had one start against brady in 2010 when rodgers got injured and he played really well.  from what ive been reading the reason why the packers waited a week to sign flynn was due to some elbow injury couple that with the seneca injury.

 

well brees is regarded as an elite qb but with and without payton his record hasnt been as good. im just using the plug in an elite qb in a team and theyll be better argument but that wasnt the case with the saints. 

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Lorenzo Ward is Clowney's defensive coordinator, not a draftnik making an observation from the bleachers. He knows the amount of effort his players are putting in on every given down.

 

But Clowney at 80% is still the best defensive player in college football.

not sure how this is a negative though? if hes dominating at 80% how can you question his motor.

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agreed, but were they even a playoff team without Favre?

 

 If the Packers would have had a modern day Alex Smith at QB instead of Brett Favre,  here are thoughts.  In the two consecutive seasons they went to the Super Bowl..........with a Super Bowl victory over the Patriots,   I believe the Packers would have been a playoff team.   However,   they likely wouldn't have advanced to the Super Bowl either season.  

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flynn also had one start against brady in 2010 when rodgers got injured and he played really well.  from what ive been reading the reason why the packers waited a week to sign flynn was due to some elbow injury couple that with the seneca injury.

 

well brees is regarded as an elite qb but with and without payton his record hasnt been as good. im just using the plug in an elite qb in a team and theyll be better argument but that wasnt the case with the saints. 

 

...What?

 

His record last year wasn't that bad, and without Brees the 7-9 Saints would likely have been 3-13.  The Saints were 7-9 in 2007 as well btw with Sean Payton as coach.  8-8 the year after that.  I'm not sure how you're proving your case at all by using the Saints as an example, when Drew Brees absolutely has made them better.  Heck, the Saints went from a 3-13 team in 2005 to a 10-6 team when you added Brees.  

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I was wrong about Trent Baalke. 

...What?

 

His record last year wasn't that bad, and without Brees the 7-9 Saints would likely have been 3-13.  The Saints were 7-9 in 2007 as well btw with Sean Payton as coach.  8-8 the year after that.  I'm not sure how you're proving your case at all by using the Saints as an example, when Drew Brees absolutely has made them better.  Heck, the Saints went from a 3-13 team in 2005 to a 10-6 team when you added Brees.  

what? im just saying hes been the only elite qb to have a losing season while he was elite the past few years if i remember correctly. and if elite qb can make their team a playoff contender and more or less a superbowl contenter then what happened last year with the saints? 

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what? im just saying hes been the only elite qb to have a losing season while he was elite the past few years if i remember correctly. and if elite qb can make their team a playoff contender and more or less a superbowl contenter then what happened last year with the saints? 

 

No here's what you said:   (I'll even color code key words) 

im just using the plug in an elite qb in a team and theyll be
better
argument but that wasnt the case with the saints. 

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I was wrong about Trent Baalke. 

No here's what you said:   (I'll even color code key words) 

im just using the plug in an elite qb in a team and theyll be
better
argument but that wasnt the case with the saints. 

yeah i was talking about with and without payton the previous posts? please understand the context of the conversation before you nitpick  :whistling:

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not sure how this is a negative though? if hes dominating at 80% how can you question his motor.

 

... because he won't be playing against college athletes any more. And yeah, you can sort of question his motor if his own coaches are doing so.

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... because he won't be playing against college athletes any more. And yeah, you can sort of question his motor if his own coaches are doing so.

when youre dominating at 80% theres no point of going 100%, now if he wasnt dominant at 80% then it would be a concern. but hey keep holding on if you want.

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when youre dominating at 80% theres no point of going 100%, now if he wasnt dominant at 80% then it would be a concern. but hey keep holding on if you want.

That would be the moment to bring up level of competition but that's the argument you use to discredit Bridgewater

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when youre dominating at 80% theres no point of going 100%, now if he wasnt dominant at 80% then it would be a concern. but hey keep holding on if you want.

Terrible excuse so it's okay for clowney not to be stellar week in an week out but if bridgewater is not putting up 400 a game he sucks. Clowney is lazy, he's tanking for the draft. You really need to get used to the fact that we will draft a QB in the first.

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