And that extended check out is by government edict. The same (or worse) would be true of universal single payer.

No it wouldn't, because in single payer everyone is eligible.

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I was wrong about Trent Baalke. 

I don't see how more options would cause more deaths while practicing medicine. Walk me through it

 

It's pretty easy. Why do some businesses succeed while others fail? Because the failing businesses provide inferior service. The problem is how many lives will lost due to poor health care by one provider before the general public realizes another option would be better? It's not like you can return a poorly transplanted kidney and go to a competitor with a better track record.

 

How do you ensure rural, poorer areas will have the same options, or any option, when the more lucrative markets are in cities? Why do think I must drive 35 miles to get to a Walmart?

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If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley


 

The VA isn't single payer anyway.  Which is precisely why it takes so long for Veterans to get care.  VA Clinics try to determine if a veteran is even eligible for care in the first place, thus creating long wait times.  

 

Exactly, the logjam is in the eligibility determination process. If my father's experience is any indication, once they get care it is very good.

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If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley


 

Exactly, the logjam is in the eligibility determination process. If my father's experience is any indication, once they get care it is very good.

 

Not necessarily. My father was in and out of VA hospitals for years. Some were good, some were bad. The worst experience he ever had is when I found him minutes before he would have died because a VA doctor who could barely speak English prescribed him insulin that was too high dosage. He went into respiratory failure a few minutes after arriving at the ER and was comatose for two days.

Overall it's adequate. Like any healthcare system there's inconsistencies. 

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There's bad doctors everywhere.


When I was a kid, I went to a doctor who told my mom I was just faking it to get out of going to school.  This was at our regular clinic.  We then went to a different doctor that same day, and found out that I had Pneumonia.  

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I was wrong about Trent Baalke. 

I purchase a service, as I do with everything else. With taxation it's not a free choice and paternalistic in nature. I know you can't understand the difference, but that's how it goes once you've become a house pet.

Sounds like you rely on a doctor. Whether he is paid by government or privately? The thing is you are so indoctrinated by free markets you don't see that in health you don't really have a free market as there is no alternative.

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Also very ironic on an NFL board talking about how everything should be run as a free market and any control of the market is inherently bad...

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No it wouldn't, because in single payer everyone is eligible.

 

 I wasn't referring to just eligibility. Government imposes many hoops to jump through. With the VA there was no reason determination of eligibility should have taken more than a few minutes per patient. As you said, it took months and people died.


 

That's not bad government, that's just government.

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

The Citizen's of America need to watch the Political Parties (Dems & GOP) as I feel they have been corrupted over the years without real challenge from the people to remind them that they ultimately work for us & not the other way around.

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Wait wait wait. You have vets in a mental care facility for 7 years before they see a doctor... 7 years and you are going to rationalize it as a simple glitch in determining eligibility?


We are a stupid country.

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Wait wait wait. You have vets in a mental care facility for 7 years before they see a doctor... 7 years and you are going to rationalize it as a simple glitch in determining eligibility?


We are a stupid country.

 

Surely they have the option of using the private health system? Why are they choosing to wait 7 years to see a doctor in this terrible system? Or does your system not do a great job for the elderly or vulnerable or those less well off?

 

I suppose they get what they deserve those lazy less well off people should have made some better choices rather than working for the government...

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Surely they have the option of using the private health system? Why are they choosing to wait 7 years to see a doctor in this terrible system? Or does your system not do a great job for the elderly or vulnerable or those less well off?

 

I suppose they get what they deserve those lazy less well off people should have made some better choices rather than working for the government...

 

No, they don't have that option because we are the worst parts of socialized medicine not a free market system at all. Physicians who participate in the government programs are required to abide by the policies of those programs even if the patient doesn't want them to. If a patient has VA or Medicare then the provide is required, by law, to submit a claim to that payer which requires all the clerical work associated with it eg, eligibility verification, referral, pre-cert, benefits determination, etc.

 

The whole VA system is a [BAD WORD REMOVED] that could only have been designed by a government bureaucrat to make sure that he always had a job.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Sounds like you rely on a doctor. Whether he is paid by government or privately? The thing is you are so indoctrinated by free markets you don't see that in health you don't really have a free market as there is no alternative.

 

I know we don't have a free market, the government runs the whole damn thing, that's why it's such a mess.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

What do you think will happen in a health care free market? Do you think that demand will reduce if costs go up? Sometimes free markets are just not for the greater good. Or do you want to get rid of revenue sharing and the NFL draft? Hello London Jaguars.

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What do you think will happen in a health care free market? Do you think that demand will reduce if costs go up? Sometimes free markets are just not for the greater good. Or do you want to get rid of revenue sharing and the NFL draft? Hello London Jaguars.

 

The same thing that happens in every free market: higher quality, greater supply, lower costs. Every. Single. Time.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Hahaha! You really haven't ever studied any economics have you? Shame your government doesn't mandate you guys vacation time to read up on the subject...God bless the free market.

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By the way are you getting rid of all patents to have an actual free market? Or are you going to protect businesses at the expense of the free market. So that guy can't raise his drug price by 1000s without rivals coming in to undercut?

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By the way are you getting rid of all patents to have an actual free market? Or are you going to protect businesses at the expense of the free market. So that guy can't raise his drug price by 1000s without rivals coming in to undercut?

 

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Hahaha! You really haven't ever studied any economics have you? Shame your government doesn't mandate you guys vacation time to read up on the subject...God bless the free market.

 

There you go again, begging your master for hand outs.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Where is this pure free market utopia, the model upon which this guarantee of success is built?

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If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley