You're absolutely entitled to your opinion.  Bush was a disaster, and historians are already pointing this out.  However you want to try and rationalize it.  9/11 wasn't his fault, but he was asleep at the wheel.  Katrina wasn't his fault, but he was asleep at the wheel.  
 
That should be on is tomb stone:  War Criminal, asleep at the wheel from 2001 - 2009.  
 
Cheny's will just say "War Criminal".  
 
Your analysis of the Iraq war is so full of nothing that I'm questioning either your honesty about how much you remember about the run up to the war or your intelligence for knowing so little about it.  Either way, it's a bad look for you.
[/



Bush also signed the treaty to have ALL military out of Iraq by 2011... so the blaming anyone else for ISIS due to our military being pulled out, may be the fault of this treaty

---

Blakes Life Matters

I won't derail this thread but I disagree Lincoln didn't wage war to free anyone only to force states to stay in a union they wished to leave.

They wished to leave because slavery was about to be abolished. The idea that the Civil War was about states' rights and not about slavery is some of the most insidious revisionist history of the past few decades. The Texas articles of secession include the words slave or slavery 21 times, it mentions "rights" 4 times, once in the context of "rights of the slave-holdings States". 

---

What does George w Bush have to do with this thread?

 

As bad as he was as President, you have to admit that Obama has been worse overall... all the scandals & abuse of power.. come on..

---

"He's getting there," the Republican presidential candidate told Fox News' Bill O'Reilly in a taped interview on "The O'Reilly Factor," when asked if he thought Obama was the worst president in the history of the country.

"I think he's right there," Christie said. "Really, he's clinched it in the last 12 months. Iran, Syria, I think has clinched it for him."

 

He had once said in the past that the country had the worst two Presidents in US History back to back.

---

They wished to leave because slavery was about to be abolished. The idea that the Civil War was about states' rights and not about slavery is some of the most insidious revisionist history of the past few decades. The Texas articles of secession include the words slave or slavery 21 times, it mentions "rights" 4 times, once in the context of "rights of the slave-holdings States". 

 

It was the "how" it was to be abolished as well as the Peculiar Institution itself at issue, as it had been for the entirety of the country's history to that point. Slavery was abolished everywhere else in the western world, mostly without bloodshed, through the actions of various groups. It could've been the same here.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

"He's getting there," the Republican presidential candidate told Fox News' Bill O'Reilly in a taped interview on "The O'Reilly Factor," when asked if he thought Obama was the worst president in the history of the country.

"I think he's right there," Christie said. "Really, he's clinched it in the last 12 months. Iran, Syria, I think has clinched it for him."


He had once said in the past that the country had the worst two Presidents in US History back to back.

Oh if Chris Christie said it, it must be true. Why didn't you say so in the first place???

---

Nonsense.


Nobody, not even the mayor of New Orleans who failed to evacuate the city although he had thousands of school buses at his disposal, was asleep at the wheel. New Orleans survived the hurricane. A day later the levees gave way, which is what caused the disaster. If you want to blame anyone blame the government bureaucrats who failed to reinforce the levees when money was allocated for that purpose a decade earlier. The federal government sent aid to New Orleans as soon as the governor declared a state of emergency, and shipments of relief supplies were on their way awaiting the DEMOCRAT governor to act. It was illegal to take action before then.


 

9/11 was enabled by Jamie Gorelick (Clinton appointed bureaucrat) when she created a directive that all but blocked the coordination of the CIA, FBI, and NSA. Pieces of the information needed to stop the attack were there, but couldn't be put together, because GOVERNMENT. Clinton also had the opportunity to take out Bin Laden but decided against it. About all you can say about Bush as far as 9/11 was that his response was misguided. The federal bureaucracy made sure that any information prior to the attack was not accessible.


 

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2004...758-5267r/

 

 

Bingo.

---

There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

I love the hypocrisy. Always complaining about the lack of accountability in America, then the minute someone points out lack of accountability of a president on your side, you find other scape goats. It's your mental weakness.


There's plenty of blame to go around, but no that would go against your dogmatic world view you cling to like methadone for an addict.


That's my opinion. You are more than welcome to your own.

---

As bad as he was as President, you have to admit that Obama has been worse overall... all the scandals & abuse of power.. come on..

There is no doubt that there are missteps in Obama's time as our president.


I could name a few. However the country has recovered under Obama after the collapse caused by Bush.


Whether you agree with how the recovery occurred, if you cannot admit that the country is better now as compared to prior to January 2009, then you are lying to yourself. To clarify, overall the nation is better off now after 7.5 years of Obama compared to where we were after 7.5 years of Bush


So tell me, besides Obama care, which we have debated endlessly, what policies and actions have you found to be mistakes?

---

There is no doubt that there are missteps in Obama's time as our president.


I could name a few. However the country has recovered under Obama after the collapse caused by Bush.


Whether you agree with how the recovery occurred, if you cannot admit that the country is better now as compared to prior to January 2009, then you are lying to yourself. To clarify, overall the nation is better off now after 7.5 years of Obama compared to where we were after 7.5 years of Bush


So tell me, besides Obama care, which we have debated endlessly, what policies and actions have you found to be mistakes?

 

What recovery would that be and how exactly did President Bush cause a collapse?

 

How exactly is the country better now?  Take a look at any metric that you want starting with President Bush and going forward 7.5 years, then compare it with President Obama going forward 7.5 years.  Growth?  Jobs?  Military strength?  GDP?  National Debt?  Explain.

---

There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

What recovery would that be and how exactly did President Bush cause a collapse?

 

How exactly is the country better now?  Take a look at any metric that you want starting with President Bush and going forward 7.5 years, then compare it with President Obama going forward 7.5 years.  Growth?  Jobs?  Military strength?  GDP?  National Debt?  Explain.

GDP in 2008: 14.72 trillion.

GDP in 2013: 16.77 trillion.

 

GDP had recovered from the recession by 2010. Growth of public debt as a percentage of GDP was roughly similar under Bush and Obama (both just over 20 %-points).

 

Unemployment in Nov 2000: 3.9%

Unemployment in Nov 2008: 6.8%.

Unemployment in May 2015: 5.5%.

---

GDP in 2008: 14.72 trillion.

GDP in 2013: 16.77 trillion.

 

GDP had recovered from the recession by 2010. Growth of public debt as a percentage of GDP was roughly similar under Bush and Obama (both just over 20 %-points).

 

Unemployment in Nov 2000: 3.9%

Unemployment in Nov 2008: 6.8%.

Unemployment in May 2015: 5.5%.

 

However, look at GDP as it relates to the National Debt.  Also look at how unemployment numbers are calculated now vs then.

 

Another thing that is interesting about your post, why post GDP numbers from 2013?

---

There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

Oh if Chris Christie said it, it must be true. Why didn't you say so in the first place???

<a class="bbc_url" href='https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.politico.com%2Fglobal%2Fpolitico44%2F110928_christie_obama_shake_522_ap_regular.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.politico.com%2Fpolitico44%2Fperm%2F0911%2Fsecrets_secrets_58dd7bf8-6455-4794-a0f5-84572b4843ab.html&docid=me2ZZJ5jM4SsbM&tbnid=FtThYkkn4aJeMM%3A&w=523&h=283&hl=en&client=safari&bih=928&biw=768&ved=0ahUKEwio16611_PMAhVLOCYKHSfeB5oQMwglKAgwCA&iact=mrc&uact=8'>https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.politico.com%2Fglobal%2Fpolitico44%2F110928_christie_obama_shake_522_ap_regular.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.politico.com%2Fpolitico44%2Fperm%2F0911%2Fsecrets_secrets_58dd7bf8-6455-4794-a0f5-84572b4843ab.html&docid=me2ZZJ5jM4SsbM&tbnid=FtThYkkn4aJeMM%3A&w=523&h=283&hl=en&client=safari&bih=928&biw=768&ved=0ahUKEwio16611_PMAhVLOCYKHSfeB5oQMwglKAgwCA&iact=mrc&uact=8</a>


This opportunist piece of piss has no credibility, except for his filled up punch cards at Dunkin Donuts.

---

Blakes Life Matters

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt...mrc&uact=8



Lol....he seems to like back ground photo ops.

---

Blakes Life Matters

They wished to leave because slavery was about to be abolished. The idea that the Civil War was about states' rights and not about slavery is some of the most insidious revisionist history of the past few decades. The Texas articles of secession include the words slave or slavery 21 times, it mentions "rights" 4 times, once in the context of "rights of the slave-holdings States".

No it wasn't about to be abolished there was no movement to end slavery in slave states only debate about which new states would be slave states and which would be free states. It was about control of Congress and having one party out of balance with the other party.


Trying to resist derailing the thread.....


Damn it if it was about slavery justify union slave states, justify lincolns own admission had no intention of freeing anyone, explain all the non-slave holding Confederates, explain why the proclamation wasn't made at the start of the war but instead when public support was dwindling. Slavery was an issue that divided the agriculture territories and the industrial territories no one denies that. Slavery was amount the issues that pushed the country to division no one denies that. It was not the cause of the war, some states no longer desired to be apart of the union they voluntarily joined ( the reason doesn't matter it could have been because they didn't like top hats) Lincoln then took arms and murdered more Americans than any other president in history to force federal compliance of a now mandatory union. He used foreign mercenaries in his tyrannical March through the south.


That's it I'm done I won't derail it anymore Lincoln was a tyrant I spit on his grave if I could. And no I don't support slavery it was a violation of civil rights and personal property rights in everyway but the actions Lincoln took where inexcusable.

---

No it wasn't about to be abolished there was no movement to end slavery in slave states only debate about which new states would be slave states and which would be free states. It was about control of Congress and having one party out of balance with the other party.


Trying to resist derailing the thread.....


Damn it if it was about slavery justify union slave states, justify lincolns own admission had no intention of freeing anyone, explain all the non-slave holding Confederates, explain why the proclamation wasn't made at the start of the war but instead when public support was dwindling. Slavery was an issue that divided the agriculture territories and the industrial territories no one denies that. Slavery was amount the issues that pushed the country to division no one denies that. It was not the cause of the war, some states no longer desired to be apart of the union they voluntarily joined ( the reason doesn't matter it could have been because they didn't like top hats) Lincoln then took arms and murdered more Americans than any other president in history to force federal compliance of a now mandatory union. He used foreign mercenaries in his tyrannical March through the south.


That's it I'm done I won't derail it anymore Lincoln was a tyrant I spit on his grave if I could. And no I don't support slavery it was a violation of civil rights and personal property rights in everyway but the actions Lincoln took where inexcusable.

I don't know how you can rationalise that last sentence at all considering some these states rights you hold so dear were about the ability to have people as property. A tyrant is defined as a cruel oppressive ruler. Kind of like the person that owns people as property.


You can say Lincoln was a tyrant all you want but in the end the southern leaders were traitors and he put an end to their rebellion that very well could have turned us into a pair of Nations with animosity similar to North and South Korea.

---

I don't know how you can rationalise that last sentence at all considering some these states rights you hold so dear were about the ability to have people as property. A tyrant is defined as a cruel oppressive ruler. Kind of like the person that owns people as property.


You can say Lincoln was a tyrant all you want but in the end the southern leaders were traitors and he put an end to their rebellion that very well could have turned us into a pair of Nations with animosity similar to North and South Korea.

 

I have no love for the slave holders, it's not a one or the other conversation. The slave holders and their supporters where among the most evil our country has ever seen to date. That doesn't change the actions of the president that trampled over every single protection we had in the constitution to enter and leave the union voluntarily as needed. Not all confederates where slave supporters just like all of the union wasn't opposed to slavery. To make it a simple slavers vs freemen conflict is attempting to paint the entire conflict with a good triumph over evil narrative that just simply didn't exist. 

---

I have no love for the slave holders, it's not a one or the other conversation. The slave holders and their supporters where among the most evil our country has ever seen to date. That doesn't change the actions of the president that trampled over every single protection we had in the constitution to enter and leave the union voluntarily as needed. Not all confederates where slave supporters just like all of the union wasn't opposed to slavery. To make it a simple slavers vs freemen conflict is attempting to paint the entire conflict with a good triumph over evil narrative that just simply didn't exist.

You're right it doesn't and it wasn't. Maybe long term he will be viewed as tyrant. If Texas has its way and gets slavery out text books they can make that happen. But to try and pretend it wasn't about slavery at all is just not true. That's what people take umbrage with.

---

Were all just 40 to 50% slaves to the feds now.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Were all just 40 to 50% slaves to the feds now.

Living under rules and regulations you disagree with =/= slavery. You are perfectly free to leave. Which means you are 0% a slave and to say otherwise is insulting to people that lived under actual slavery are currently living in slavery. 

---