But didn't Jaqen appear as the Waif or vice versa earlier in the season? That would mean one one them is dead, right? If they can only use faces of the dead? And didn't Arya appear as the Waif or vice versa at some point as well? This stuff is getting confusing.

Lol, I think you're right. Jaqen drank the poison and Arya pulled a dozen faces off of him, and the she turned to the waif and she was Jaqen.

---

Good points. It just doesn't add up to me. For her to break character that BADLY. After all the cautious behavior and attempts and efforts it took to survive essentially on her own or with a band of kids with no experience like Gendry and Hot Pie. It just bothers me that she would be so foolish and easily taken advantage of or take unawares like that. I still feel like Jaqen sees something in her. And I still think the Waif messed up monumentally by her actions with the dagger. Maybe the Faceless men do have the ability to heal or revive others though.

After thinking about it more today, I think we're getting Houdini'd somehow. I don't think it was Arya or Jaqen that was stabbed.


Maybe Arya had a double secret deal with Jaqen. I don't know anymore!

---

You all bring up great points. I had completely forgotten about the poison scene where masks of the waif and Jaqan were both used. So this leads us to one of two conclusion I think. 

 

1. They can use magic (or something of the like) in lieu of physical faces when they want to. This does not pass muster for me. If that was the case why do they need the hall of faces?

 

2. The waif and Jaqan are dead as Jaqan says he is and whoever these two are have been wearing faces from the hall the entire time, swapping them out as needed to mess with Aria. 

---

HBO just confirmed that Episode 9 will be 60 mins long and solely focused on the Battle at Winterfell and episode 10 will be 69 minutes make it the longest GoT episode so far. Both will be directed by the Director who directed the Hardhome episode last season, which in my opinion was the best GoT episode to date. Pretty excited.

---

HBO just confirmed that Episode 9 will be 60 mins long and solely focused on the Battle at Winterfell and episode 10 will be 69 minutes make it the longest GoT episode so far. Both will be directed by the Director who directed the Hardhome episode last season, which in my opinion was the best GoT episode to date. Pretty excited.

Hardhome was the best episode IMO as well. 

---

You all bring up great points. I had completely forgotten about the poison scene where masks of the waif and Jaqan were both used. So this leads us to one of two conclusion I think. 

 

1. They can use magic (or something of the like) in lieu of physical faces when they want to. This does not pass muster for me. If that was the case why do they need the hall of faces?

 

2. The waif and Jaqan are dead as Jaqan says he is and whoever these two are have been wearing faces from the hall the entire time, swapping them out as needed to mess with Aria.

I totally agree with you on 1. Very convoluted.


Agreed on 2 as well. No way Jaqen was caught way back when wearing his own face. They're physically completely different people.

---

You all bring up great points. I had completely forgotten about the poison scene where masks of the waif and Jaqan were both used. So this leads us to one of two conclusion I think. 

 

1. They can use magic (or something of the like) in lieu of physical faces when they want to. This does not pass muster for me. If that was the case why do they need the hall of faces?

 

2. The waif and Jaqan are dead as Jaqan says he is and whoever these two are have been wearing faces from the hall the entire time, swapping them out as needed to mess with Aria. 

 

It's like I was saying and the more I think about it, the more I'm starting to think I might be on to something.  To become a faceless man, one must first die.  I think when they die, their faces are taken and then they're brought back.  The term "faceless men" is more literal then we've been led to believe.

---

I'm condescending. That means I talk down to you. 
Check out the Jag's Forum Alternative: Duval Football Fans.

I usually watch each episode twice each week but a few weeks ago I went back to the very first episode and have been watching the series over again (I would probably never do that with other TV shows).  I just finished season 3 again.  This show really wastes no dialog.  Almost every little thing that is said is relevant to what is going on at that time or foreshadows events that are going on now.  I've never read the books, but the show is easily my all-time favorite TV series.

 

Regarding Arya, I don't think the faceless men can take the face of someone who is still living, as was previously pointed out, so I'm pretty sure that was indeed Arya that got stabbed.  The comment about one must die before being able to become a faceless man is interesting though.

 

Also, there is a widely held fan theory that many of you may be familiar with that holds that Tyrion might actually be a Targaryen and not a Lannister (sorry if this was discussed earlier in the thread, I only read back a few pages).  Having gone through the first 3 seasons again and having paid closer attention to the dialog between Tywin and Tyrion and Tywin's treatment of Tyrion, I would say that this theory is highly probable.  Couple that with the fact that Tyrion walked into the dragon chamber and freed the dragons earlier this season and wasn't eaten in the process, I'd say it's almost a lock that he is actually Targaryen much like Jon has to be.

 

Whatever happens in the Snow Bowl, I think Jon lives.  If he's Targaryen which I'm sure he is, then I think that needs to be revealed first and there really isn't time for that right now.  And why bring him back only to fall to Ramsey?  And then there is the 3 headed dragon prophecy which would almost certainly require Jon Snow to live.  The problem if he wins is who then becomes the primary villain once Ramsey is gone?  Cersei would be the most hated one left, but she's been significantly humanized over the past couple of seasons.  Ramsey inspires hatred of his character like no other.  I don't think anyone left does so to the same extent. If he dies, maybe that means the white walkers will now become the primary focus for everyone as they march on the Wall. 

 

If Jon is a Targaryen, Bran will likely be the one to discover it and then will have to run into Jon and reveal it to him.  Something is going to have to happen (likely his heritage being revealed) to send Jon across the Narrow Sea to meet Daenerys, in my opinion, and him ruling Winterfell doesn't mesh with that idea.  The Snow Bowl is meaningless for Jon aside from seeing Ramsey get his due which given the show's history we may not even get.  The more I think about it, the more I think Jon loses but survives.

---

I usually watch each episode twice each week but a few weeks ago I went back to the very first episode and have been watching the series over again (I would probably never do that with other TV shows). I just finished season 3 again. This show really wastes no dialog. Almost every little thing that is said is relevant to what is going on at that time or foreshadows events that are going on now. I've never read the books, but the show is easily my all-time favorite TV series.


Regarding Arya, I don't think the faceless men can take the face of someone who is still living, as was previously pointed out, so I'm pretty sure that was indeed Arya that got stabbed. The comment about one must die before being able to become a faceless man is interesting though.


Also, there is a widely held fan theory that many of you may be familiar with that holds that Tyrion might actually be a Targaryen and not a Lannister (sorry if this was discussed earlier in the thread, I only read back a few pages). Having gone through the first 3 seasons again and having paid closer attention to the dialog between Tywin and Tyrion and Tywin's treatment of Tyrion, I would say that this theory is highly probable. Couple that with the fact that Tyrion walked into the dragon chamber and freed the dragons earlier this season and wasn't eaten in the process, I'd say it's almost a lock that he is actually Targaryen much like Jon has to be.


Whatever happens in the Snow Bowl, I think Jon lives. If he's Targaryen which I'm sure he is, then I think that needs to be revealed first and there really isn't time for that right now. And why bring him back only to fall to Ramsey? And then there is the 3 headed dragon prophecy which would almost certainly require Jon Snow to live. The problem if he wins is who then becomes the primary villain once Ramsey is gone? Cersei would be the most hated one left, but she's been significantly humanized over the past couple of seasons. Ramsey inspires hatred of his character like no other. I don't think anyone left does so to the same extent. If he dies, maybe that means the white walkers will now become the primary focus for everyone as they march on the Wall.


If Jon is a Targaryen, Bran will likely be the one to discover it and then will have to run into Jon and reveal it to him. Something is going to have to happen (likely his heritage being revealed) to send Jon across the Narrow Sea to meet Daenerys, in my opinion, and him ruling Winterfell doesn't mesh with that idea. The Snow Bowl is meaningless for Jon aside from seeing Ramsey get his due which given the show's history we may not even get. The more I think about it, the more I think Jon loses but survives.

I think Euronext Greyjoy will take Ramsey's place as the main villain, however, I don't think Ramsey is going to die in the Bastard Bowl.


I think Jon will win (with a little help) and will stay in the North. They are setting him up to lead against the White Walkers so I don't think he will be going anywhere.

---

Jon was never going to go over the NS. His entire character is duty. Dany is coming to westeros, but she's gonna carve up Essos before she leaves.

---

"Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other." Galatians 5:26

2015 NFL Draft - Analyzing Targets www.jungle.jaguars.com/index.php?/topic/7892-2015-nfl-draft-analyzing-targets/

It's like I was saying and the more I think about it, the more I'm starting to think I might be on to something.  To become a faceless man, one must first die.  I think when they die, their faces are taken and then they're brought back.  The term "faceless men" is more literal then we've been led to believe.

I really like this idea. This seems to fit quite well with what we have been shown so far. 

---

I love reading these theories.

---

I love reading these theories.

I second this. How often does a show or book yield such abundance of conversation about it?

---

I second this. How often does a show or book yield such abundance of conversation about it?

Maybe like, Twin Peaks? That's about all I got. Nothing current comes to mind really. Martin has done an amazing job with this world he has created. It's pretty impressive when you think about it with the point you just made in mind. 

---

I love reading these theories.

Well then - I heard another interesting one.


At Jon's camp, Davos made quite a few remarks about Stannis being a great military mind and how he choose this supremely defensible position, etc.


Everyone assumes Sansa was writing Littlefinger at the end BUT... what if she was writing her own version of the pink letter to Ramsey? In order to draw him out onto their field.

---

I love reading these theories.

 

Me, too. I read all the novels and have watched every episode and am still amazed at the details I've forgotten or missed that contributors here bring up.

---

If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley


 

Me, too. I read all the novels and have watched every episode and am still amazed at the details I've forgotten or missed that contributors here bring up.

Try rewatching it.  As was previously pointed out there are no wasted words.  Everything is foreshadowing.  I just started season 3 and so much then points to what is happening now.  Amazing job Martin and HBO have done.

---

Original Season Ticket Holder - Retired  1995 - 2020


At some point you just have to let go of what you thought should happen and live in what is happening.
 

It's like I was saying and the more I think about it, the more I'm starting to think I might be on to something.  To become a faceless man, one must first die.  I think when they die, their faces are taken and then they're brought back.  The term "faceless men" is more literal then we've been led to believe.

 

I read an interesting theory out there that suggests Arya and the Waif are one and the same.  Alter egos of her "as is" (who she was and still is) and her as "a girl"/faceless (if she were to submit.)

 

I don't think she's ever come close to becoming "a girl."  She's just been suppressing it to please Jaqen and learn what she needs to carry out revenge on her hit list.  She proved that she's still Arya in refusing to kill the actress, still having her own free will.

 

An interesting point is that the two are never spoken to directly when together in the same room, as the Waif is ushered off whenever Arya speaks with Jaqen, and appears after he's finished addressing her.  It also explains how she knows all that Arya knows, when she is lying etc...

 

If the Waif were a true assassin, she wouldn't have left the job unfinished - and Arya wasn't wounded until she got her Needle back.

 

So maybe that's what ties your theory together.  She can't kill herself (let go of who she truly is, cannot kill her current self) to become one of the faceless.

---

"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."

Sad to see the Blackfish go.

---

Well, Arya's arc was quite a letdown for me.


Also, Edmure sucks.

---