No, healthcare is not a right.  That no one should be turned away from receiving medical treatment is called humanity.

 

Among our certain inalienable rights are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.

 

You are such a fan of a single payer system without actually stepping back and thinking about what that really means.  It means that we all would pay money into a big pool (of course run by GOVERNMENT) and the government in turn would pay a set price for health care.  Think about what that means, especially for doctors, nurses and other health care professionals.

 

Look at it this way.  You are an accountant.  You paid your way through school and work in your profession earning what your employer thinks your time and effort is worth.  What if the government suddenly said that you had to do my income tax return and the only compensation is what the government deems is "appropriate", no matter how much effort and time might be required.  Is that "fair"?

 

Spot on.  LOL.. a "right"...

 

Everyone has always had "access."  Always have, always will.  Unless we continue down the current path and get more asinine with meddling with the system that will lead to rationing.

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"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."

I think saying treating the sick and injured is not a right, but being humane is kinda playing with semantics.


I don't know if you read one of my other posts, but I mentioned that based on our modern advances and how our global society has evolved and progressed over the past couple centuries, health care support is part of our rights to life. You said it yourself. Our humanity to one another (based on our abilities and technologies now to do so) requires us to help those that need it. After all--- ALL of us are gonna need that support eventually in our lives!!! Age, illness, and disease catches up with us all.


Now, I've heard this argument before regarding single payer and even universal healthcare and doctors. However, this is an issue that needs resolution. And going back to pre Obama care isn't an option.


There are models in Canada and Europe that can be followed. But the solution is moving forward, but back.

 

No, it's not semantics.  It's the truth.  People don't have the "right" to a professional's services (a doctor) for a cut or a common cold.

 

We have been endowed by our Creator with certain inalienable rights among those Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.  Liberals like you seem to read that as Life, Liberty and Happiness.  That's two different things.

 

Say we go to a single payer system.  Say right now a doctor charges a person (or insurance) $100 to stitch up say a 4" cut.  Under a single payer system, the government decides that to stitch that same cut should cost only $50 and that's all that they will pay.  Is that really "fair" to the professional that went through many years of school?  What is going to happen to the medical profession?  Are people going to be willing to go through years of school in order for the government to dictate how much they should earn for a procedure?

 

Now under that scenario, the government "pays" for it, but how does the government get the money?  Oh that's right, from people that actually work and are productive in society.  What if the person that needed the treatment was some heroine junkie?  What if it happens to be an illegal alien that shouldn't have been here to begin with?  In either case the "patient" doesn't pay anything and you (maybe) and I as tax payers have to pay for it.

 

Sorry but NOPE!

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

So the right to life is only a yes/no thing.


If you are alive, that's all that matters. The quality of your life is of no concern?


I guess that's the literal interpretation.


I tend to disagree.


I think that living a shortened miserable life with a disease that is treatable is situation of a right denied.


I think most people agree. I think as you get older, your need for modern medicine increases. And living through a shortened golden years in pain and suffering the ailments of an aging body when treatments and medications are available is having a right to a positive life denied.

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So the right to life is only a yes/no thing.


If you are alive, that's all that matters. The quality of your life is of no concern?


I guess that's the literal interpretation.


I tend to disagree.


I think that living a shortened miserable life with a disease that is treatable is situation of a right denied.


I think most people agree. I think as you get older, your need for modern medicine increases. And living through a shortened golden years in pain and suffering the ailments of an aging body when treatments and medications are available is having a right to a positive life denied.

 

Food is a more immediate and pressing need, should we have national single payer grocery stores paid directly by the government through taxation? EBT For All?

 

So is homelessness, how about housing, a 3/2 on a quarter acre for everyone?

 

A car?

 

A job?

 

A mandatory Fit Bit and exercise regimen?

 

A Registered Dietician who reviews your daily intake and assesses tax penalties for over or improper consumption?

 

Because if healthcare financing is a human right then those real essentials are more so.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Food is a more immediate and pressing need, should we have national single payer grocery stores paid directly by the government through taxation? EBT For All?


So is homelessness, how about housing, a 3/2 on a quarter acre for everyone?


A car?


A job?


A mandatory Fit Bit and exercise regimen?


A Registered Dietician who reviews your daily intake and assesses tax penalties for over or improper consumption?


Because if healthcare financing is a human right then those real essentials are more so.

Well, let's take it one step at a time! Lol


But seriously, I get what you're saying. Obviously things need to be worked for. And most markets are better served in a demand/supply approach.


But before I go there, education up to high school is free.


It's important in this day and age to educate and prepare people for adulthood in order for positive outcomes. And the demand/supply approach has been removed from this industry.


I think healthcare is similar. The importance of it, along with the lack of true understanding abs knowledge of the discipline requires a different approach.


My answer is not eloquent, but I think is substantial.


Food can be gotten easily, and let's face it, it is considered so important that if one does not have enough income, the nation fronts them money for it. There is a basic baseline that we all agree must be provided.


Cars, obviously is a luxury and not a right. But we do allow for public transportation for cheap if you need it to go to work.


There are baselines. With healthcare I think it's important to start moving in that direction as well. Especially when the ones that are making a killing are the insurance companies.



I see health care similar to that. Of course it's two different disciplines, the end result is similar.

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So what's the baseline and why should I bother lifting a finger if the baseline is everybody's right?  I currently work to pay for food, housing, education, health care, etc.  If baseline is everything but a car, I'm in!  Why would I need a car anyway?  If I grow to 500 lbs they'll have to deliver all these goods and services.  It's my right. 

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So what's the baseline and why should I bother lifting a finger if the baseline is everybody's right?  I currently work to pay for food, housing, education, health care, etc.  If baseline is everything but a car, I'm in!  Why would I need a car anyway?  If I grow to 500 lbs they'll have to deliver all these goods and services.  It's my right. 

 

If you want to live on the baseline of eating off foodstamps, and getting good healthcare, while living in a studio or 1 bedroom apartment in a section 8 neighborhood, driving a 1989 Ford Escort, who am I to judge?  But if you want more in life, then you can have that as well through hard work and pushing yourself.

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To Byrons point, the idea of subsidizing lifestyles in the absence of the individual contributing something of value to society as a whole is childish.  The idea of deriving this subsidy from compulsory taxation breeds division and animosity. 

 

There is no reason that we should subsidize people watching Maury.  if someone is in need then there are things that they could do to contribute to society through work and that should be fundamentally tied to any form of public assistance.  Even if its internship somewhere education or whatever.

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Police officers aren't going around burning and looting entire towns.

...and shooting unarmed special needs care workers...

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Whether someone has a liberal, or conservative viewpoint, a authoritative figure should not lock a thread for the sole purpose to get the last word in all the while prohibiting someone else from being able to respond.

To Byrons point, the idea of subsidizing lifestyles in the absence of the individual contributing something of value to society as a whole is childish.  The idea of deriving this subsidy from compulsory taxation breeds division and animosity. 

 

There is no reason that we should subsidize people watching Maury.  if someone is in need then there are things that they could do to contribute to society through work and that should be fundamentally tied to any form of public assistance.  Even if its internship somewhere education or whatever.

 

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.

 

Some have been indoctrinated that they are entitled to the fish, fish that were rightfully, honestly earned by others.

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"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."

Even worse they allow people to bash and demean them saying "you know you're too stupid and lazy to fish. Vote for me or you will starve

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Well, let's take it one step at a time! Lol


But seriously, I get what you're saying. Obviously things need to be worked for. And most markets are better served in a demand/supply approach.


But before I go there, education up to high school is free.


It's important in this day and age to educate and prepare people for adulthood in order for positive outcomes. And the demand/supply approach has been removed from this industry.


I think healthcare is similar. The importance of it, along with the lack of true understanding abs knowledge of the discipline requires a different approach.


My answer is not eloquent, but I think is substantial.


Food can be gotten easily, and let's face it, it is considered so important that if one does not have enough income, the nation fronts them money for it. There is a basic baseline that we all agree must be provided.


Cars, obviously is a luxury and not a right. But we do allow for public transportation for cheap if you need it to go to work.


There are baselines. With healthcare I think it's important to start moving in that direction as well. Especially when the ones that are making a killing are the insurance companies.



I see health care similar to that. Of course it's two different disciplines, the end result is similar.

 

Regarding the part in bold, no it isn't.

 

Liberals seem to think that just because it's funded by the government it's "free".  If I was a young parent and wanted to give my child the best education, I can't "opt out" of paying the portion of my taxes that goes towards funding government education and use the savings to send my child to a private school.

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

To Byrons point, the idea of subsidizing lifestyles in the absence of the individual contributing something of value to society as a whole is childish. The idea of deriving this subsidy from compulsory taxation breeds division and animosity.


There is no reason that we should subsidize people watching Maury. if someone is in need then there are things that they could do to contribute to society through work and that should be fundamentally tied to any form of public assistance. Even if its internship somewhere education or whatever.

I didn't mention that a contribution to society should be a part of the social contract, but yes, I agree.


Now in our new economy on the usa where wealth is no longer created by manufacturing (fur the most part) services are needed. So yes, it's agreed that a contribution to the society allows fur the baseline.


I think this is something that we all can get behind. Thoughts?

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I didn't mention that a contribution to society should be a part of the social contract, but yes, I agree.


Now in our new economy on the usa where wealth is no longer created by manufacturing (fur the most part) services are needed. So yes, it's agreed that a contribution to the society allows fur the baseline.


I think this is something that we all can get behind. Thoughts?

 

Your idea of the "social contract" is extremely vague.  Why don't you try specifying what's in the contract?  What do we get out of the contract and what are our responsibilities?  And what happens if one party doesn't honor their end of the contract? 

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Your idea of the "social contract" is extremely vague.  Why don't you try specifying what's in the contract?  What do we get out of the contract and what are our responsibilities?  And what happens if one party doesn't honor their end of the contract? 

 

I keep using that term from some of my political science classes I took back in the day.  I'm using the term to mean the tacit agreement between citizens and residents withing the society and the governing entities that hold the power within said society.  With us, the contract is pretty much outlined by The Constitution.  Rights of the citizens and residents are outlined and power and authorities are granted to the government with exceptions and limitations.

 

So currently, within the scheme of our nation, the social contract (on paper, of course we all know that alot of these rights are fading and the powers of the government are increasing) allows for our taxes that we contribute goes to the safety and well being of the society as a whole.  The safety aspect is seen within our police and military expansion.  The well being can be seen in such things as public education, medicare, and even to an extent the commerce laws that allow for businesses to thrive (relatively speaking, of course this topic can be expounded upon to show weakensses that exist).  

 

Agree?  Disagree?  Do you see it differently?

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I keep using that term from some of my political science classes I took back in the day.  I'm using the term to mean the tacit agreement between citizens and residents withing the society and the governing entities that hold the power within said society.  With us, the contract is pretty much outlined by The Constitution.  Rights of the citizens and residents are outlined and power and authorities are granted to the government with exceptions and limitations.

 

So currently, within the scheme of our nation, the social contract (on paper, of course we all know that alot of these rights are fading and the powers of the government are increasing) allows for our taxes that we contribute goes to the safety and well being of the society as a whole.  The safety aspect is seen within our police and military expansion.  The well being can be seen in such things as public education, medicare, and even to an extent the commerce laws that allow for businesses to thrive (relatively speaking, of course this topic can be expounded upon to show weakensses that exist).  

 

Agree?  Disagree?  Do you see it differently?

 

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

Give[/size]

 a man a [/size]

fish[/size]

 and you feed him for a day; [/size]

teach[/size]

 a man to [/size]

fish[/size]

 and you feed him for a lifetime.[/size]



 

Some have been indoctrinated that they are entitled to the fish, fish that were rightfully, honestly earned by others.

You forgot the most important part: give a man his neighbor's fish and you create a Democrat voter for life.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

You really are dream citizens. You all pay taxes but expect absolutely nothing in return.

 

Other countries pay similar tax amounts and get a fully funded health care in return oh and decent public transport etc...

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So you think the Constitution is an accessory to armed robbery.  OK.  Fair enough.

 

I think the Constitution is a social contract.  

 

I think I'll go with my opinion.  

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So you think the Constitution is an accessory to armed robbery. OK. Fair enough.


I think the Constitution is a social contract.


I think I'll go with my opinion.

The Congress forbade such activity for a loooong time until certain politicians learned to use it for their own gain and became powerful enough to implement their nefarious ideas.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato