I've never considered the anthem and the flag to be symbols of the government. Those are symbols of the people and of the sacrifices of their fellow countrymen to me, and I'm betting it's that way with most of the people in this thread.


So I'm not really sure how ironic it is to not be a fan of the federal government, and still love and respect the country and its people.

Well, that's because you aren't a dumb [BLEEP].

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

I've never considered the anthem and the flag to be symbols of the government. Those are symbols of the people and of the sacrifices of their fellow countrymen to me, and I'm betting it's that way with most of the people in this thread.


So I'm not really sure how ironic it is to not be a fan of the federal government, and still love and respect the country and its people.

 

Absolutely.  The flag and the anthem are not at all about government or "symbols of government" except to the "free thinking" liberals educated indoctrinated in university.  Freedom is the first thing that comes to mind when I think about The Flag or the National Anthem.

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

Maybe if they had the Heart to Kneel they would have had the Heart to Win... B)

I'd like to use the flag in your avatar as toilet paper in protest

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Pledging allegiance to a flag and the country it represents are not symbols of the government of said country. Got it.

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Only a chump boos the home team!

Pledging allegiance to a flag and the country it represents are not symbols of the government of said country. Got it.

Congratulations, now you're caught up with the rest of us.

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What in the Wide Wide World of Sports is agoin' on here???

Pledging allegiance to a flag and the country it represents are not symbols of the government of said country. Got it.

 

Perhaps you should read a bit of history and read what The Pledge says.  The "liberty and justice for all" part really throws liberals off.  The other part that liberals really hate is "one nation, under God, indivisible".  Our current President has done everything that he can to divide the country, but it's not happening.

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

Our current president is dividing the country and not the GOP establishment that said they'd do anything in their power to make him a one term president, failed and did everything in their power to block everything he has tried to do. Thanks Obama.

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Only a chump boos the home team!

Perhaps you should read a bit of history and read what The Pledge says. The "liberty and justice for all" part really throws liberals off. The other part that liberals really hate is "one nation, under God, indivisible". Our current President has done everything that he can to divide the country, but it's not happening.

That's the point. Kap feels there's a pretty good argument that justice bit isn't exactly being held up by our elected leaders, so he's exercising his liberty to take a knee. It's not pledging allegiance to amber waves of grain and purple mountains majesty.

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Only a chump boos the home team!

That's the point. Kap feels there's a pretty good argument that justice bit isn't exactly being held up by our elected leaders, so he's exercising his liberty to take a knee.

And no one is stopping him from protesting, but people don't have to agree with him, or keep quiet about the fact that they don't. Freedom of speech and the right to protest is everyones right.

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What in the Wide Wide World of Sports is agoin' on here???

And no one is stopping him from protesting, but people don't have to agree with him, or keep quiet about the fact that they don't. Freedom of speech and the right to protest is everyones right.

Even mine?!?

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Even mine?!?

Even yours.

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What in the Wide Wide World of Sports is agoin' on here???

Even yours.

I hope that flag is two-ply with some sort of pattern.. Makes for good grab action..

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Our current president is dividing the country and not the GOP establishment that said they'd do anything in their power to make him a one term president, failed and did everything in their power to block everything he has tried to do. Thanks Obama.

What exactly are you thanking him for? Minorities are far worse off than they were 8 years ago. Liberals want to keep flooding America with immigrants, which he has endorsed by handcuffing the DOJ from enforcing the law.

 

Finally, Healthcare. Don't even try to debate me on this one. I am a year two stage 4 cancer patient. I have spent more time in hospitals and doctor offices than most will ever see in their entire lives. I hear straight from the horse's mouth what healthcare has become. I am currently waiting to have yet another tumor removed. Live, living, breathing Cancer. This particular tumor you can see through my skin. It has roughly doubled in size in the last 5 weeks. Nobody cares. I have to wait until the wonderful government finally finds and forces a doctor to do the surgery to remove active Cancer. I am in year 2 of a journey of which I have been given a 6% chance of living 5 years or longer. Yeah, healthcare is wonderful. I would be better off being a foreign citizen. I would get better care.

 

Keep thanking him. Your rights, money, and liberties are disappearing by the day. I live it. I know it.

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What lies behind us, and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.







 

Pledging allegiance to a flag and the country it represents are not symbols of the government of said country. Got it.

The pledge is to the ideals of the flag and of the country itself. Not the politics, not the government, not the activists, not the lobbyists, not the fearmongers, not the hatemongers. 

 

The flag itself is a symbol of the things listed in the pledge, and only those things. You confuse the opinions and agendas of people who will use the flag and the pledge and the anthem to their own end with what those things actually represent, and it could be anyone. If you don't think justice is being done go to the people who can make a difference and talk to them. Donate money to organizations. Get involved in your community. Protesting is fine and brings awareness to a cause, but it doesn't do anything tangible. We can say all day long how bad it is that people are hungry, but if we don't donate our time and money to provide for the soup kitchen or food pantry then all of our 'outrage' is false. 

 

And we're going to blame a flag, a pledge and a song for it all. 

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Finally, Healthcare. Don't even try to debate me on this one. I am a year two stage 4 cancer patient. I have spent more time in hospitals and doctor offices than most will ever see in their entire lives. I hear straight from the horse's mouth what healthcare has become. I am currently waiting to have yet another tumor removed. Live, living, breathing Cancer. This particular tumor you can see through my skin. It has roughly doubled in size in the last 5 weeks. Nobody cares. I have to wait until the wonderful government finally finds and forces a doctor to do the surgery to remove active Cancer. I am in year 2 of a journey of which I have been given a 6% chance of living 5 years or longer. Yeah, healthcare is wonderful. I would be better off being a foreign citizen. I would get better care.

 

 

This makes me so sad, Dakota. I am so sorry you're going through this. You're in my prayers. 

 

And you're right about the state of healthcare. Friends of mine had their premiums go up 1000% from last year and they were on one of the exchanges. Needless to say they had to drop it. Others I know are getting treated the same as you but for different conditions. My husband's uncle was just diagnosed with colon cancer last week and they're already wondering how treatment is going to go because they've heard stories like yours and others.  

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This makes me so sad, Dakota. I am so sorry you're going through this. You're in my prayers. 

 

And you're right about the state of healthcare. Friends of mine had their premiums go up 1000% from last year and they were on one of the exchanges. Needless to say they had to drop it. Others I know are getting treated the same as you but for different conditions. My husband's uncle was just diagnosed with colon cancer last week and they're already wondering how treatment is going to go because they've heard stories like yours and others.  

I take only 40% of the meds I should because those are the cheaper ones I can afford. I cut my pain meds in half and try to be thankful that I'm not hurting as bad as I was. Look no farther than this board. Not long ago I was loved and friends with just about all. Now I am a mean, angry son of a ______. That's what months of pain end on end do to you. I know that, and it bothers me. People I used to call friends here have nothing to do with me. Real life isn't much different. I tend to stay away from people because I am usually in great pain and mean, mean, mean. I don't want to be. I just am.

 

Look, I don't know if things would be different had the ACA never happened. I just know that a lot of days I would prefer amputation or death to some of what I deal with. I am just sick of hearing how everything is so "fixed" when I am still so broken, and cannot even find the comfort of pain relief.

 

It is what it is. Cliche', I know, but I don't know what else to say.

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What lies behind us, and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.







 

Pledging allegiance to a flag and the country it represents are not symbols of the government of said country. Got it.

 

 

The pledge is to the ideals of the flag and of the country itself. Not the politics, not the government, not the activists, not the lobbyists, not the fearmongers, not the hatemongers. 

 

The flag itself is a symbol of the things listed in the pledge, and only those things. You confuse the opinions and agendas of people who will use the flag and the pledge and the anthem to their own end with what those things actually represent, and it could be anyone. If you don't think justice is being done go to the people who can make a difference and talk to them. Donate money to organizations. Get involved in your community. Protesting is fine and brings awareness to a cause, but it doesn't do anything tangible. We can say all day long how bad it is that people are hungry, but if we don't donate our time and money to provide for the soup kitchen or food pantry then all of our 'outrage' is false. 

 

And we're going to blame a flag, a pledge and a song for it all. 

 

I am sure you know the pledge is not only to the flag but also 'to the Republic for which it stands'. Ultimately we all are responsible for what gets done, so by trying to raise awareness of all of us to things he believes should be better, it seems he is doing exactly what you are saying he ought to be. Bringing awareness is not tangible? Seems to me the first step in finding solutions is recognizing that there is a problem. I am a bit curious, though, about how successful his 'raising awareness' actually has been. You seem to think that his action of not standing during a pledge or an anthem really solves anything. While that much is true, what did you think of his remarks in the press conference afterwards (I linked the remarks a good while ago in the thread, the complete transcript was an article on ESPN).

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<p class="bbc_left">Education is the cheap defense of nations. - Edmund Burke

<p class="bbc_left"> 

<p class="bbc_left">Or is it from Burke? I tried finding the source, and looked through some of his writings, no luck. Anybody with google-fu got a citation of the source?

What exactly are you thanking him for? Minorities are far worse off than they were 8 years ago. Liberals want to keep flooding America with immigrants, which he has endorsed by handcuffing the DOJ from enforcing the law.


Finally, Healthcare. Don't even try to debate me on this one. I am a year two stage 4 cancer patient. I have spent more time in hospitals and doctor offices than most will ever see in their entire lives. I hear straight from the horse's mouth what healthcare has become. I am currently waiting to have yet another tumor removed. Live, living, breathing Cancer. This particular tumor you can see through my skin. It has roughly doubled in size in the last 5 weeks. Nobody cares. I have to wait until the wonderful government finally finds and forces a doctor to do the surgery to remove active Cancer. I am in year 2 of a journey of which I have been given a 6% chance of living 5 years or longer. Yeah, healthcare is wonderful. I would be better off being a foreign citizen. I would get better care.


Keep thanking him. Your rights, money, and liberties are disappearing by the day. I live it. I know it.

Illegal immigration is actually down under Obama. Obama care is not great, but it was a plan he put into effect to try to solve the fact out healthcare costs were way out of control well before he took office. I had a nearly fatal freak incident that hospitalized me and I nearly went bankrupt (had to short sell my house). But that was well before Obama care. (Sidenote: if you have been treated at Orange Park Medical Center, they will not only do their best to kill you -- they sent me home with massive internal bleeding.. ten hours later I was at Baptist South and hospitalized for 10 days -- they also jack up their prices and are one of the most expensive hospitals in the country). I cannot blame Obama for healthcare costs that have been spiralling out of control for decades. I don't know what rights I have lost under Obama, but nothing could come close to the rights I lost under W with the Patriot Act. My money situation has actually gotten better under Obama although I don't know that it is tied at all to record high numbers with the S&P or the fact he has decreased the deficit. I don't think he has been the perfect president, but there hasn't been a president in my lifetime who has come into office with our country in worse shape. I think he did okay under the circumstances he was dealt and history will show that, even if the right wing has tried to take a dump on his head since the first day he took charge. Oh.. and that bin Laden thing. So.. Thanks Obama.

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Only a chump boos the home team!

Decreased the deficit? Are you completely mad?? And do you know why healthcare costs are spiraling out of control? Because insurance keeps rising, has been for years, and under Obamacare insurance premiums are skyrocketing due to the younger generations not buying into it which the authors of the ACA counted on to help the high cost of care for senior citizens. The insurance companies have to recoup somehow so they raise their premiums, some by 1000% this year.


And I don't know what tax bracket you fall into but his time in the WH has done nothing to improve our finances.

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I take only 40% of the meds I should because those are the cheaper ones I can afford. I cut my pain meds in half and try to be thankful that I'm not hurting as bad as I was. Look no farther than this board. Not long ago I was loved and friends with just about all. Now I am a mean, angry son of a ______. That's what months of pain end on end do to you. I know that, and it bothers me. People I used to call friends here have nothing to do with me. Real life isn't much different. I tend to stay away from people because I am usually in great pain and mean, mean, mean. I don't want to be. I just am.

 

Look, I don't know if things would be different had the ACA never happened. I just know that a lot of days I would prefer amputation or death to some of what I deal with. I am just sick of hearing how everything is so "fixed" when I am still so broken, and cannot even find the comfort of pain relief.

 

It is what it is. Cliche', I know, but I don't know what else to say.

Well we are still friends Mr. Cranky Pants so don't you worry about it. And the folks here who don't like you anymore have obviously never dealt with serious chronic pain (something I know a bit about) with cancer on top of that so screw them. You deal with what you can and let the rest deal with itself.

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