My father as child was forced to drink from colored fountains, go to colored schools, go to colored bathrooms, ride the back of the bus, ETC ETC. He could not go to movies that said "Whites Only", take a [BAD WORD REMOVED] in "White bathrooms". This was less than 60 years ago. 

 

My Grandfather was beaten within inches of his life, his families generational farm stolen from them, had to flee his home country because of his ethnicity and religious affiliation. He lost 6 Brothers to militias and 2 sisters before they made it out of Columbia. My other grandfather was denied work, housing and access to public utilities in Ontario again due to his religious affiliation. One doctor told him to switch churches or fail his physical allowing them to work the mines, the excuse they used was his stomach couldn't handle the fumes of the mine, so he had them put a metal plate in his abdomen and went to work.

 

Once either side came to America they faced all kinds of hardships. My non-English speaking Spanish migrant Grandfather saved for 13 years to make the trip (legally) with my mother her sister and his wife. Sure they faced typical stereotyping, some prejudice hell my Mother at age 15 carried a dictionary through High School as she taught herself English (there was translator in the 70's for her schooling). The other side came poor Irish-Canadian immigrants again my Father's side saved for 7 years to make the move down here so my Grandfather and Grandmother could take a factory line job. My Grandmother was spat on, her car vandalized, their home vandalized, and physically assaulted three times since they both crossed the picket line, immigrants couldn't afford to miss a shift at the factory because the union wanted to strike.

 

You think the discrimination was bad here in the 60's? Try being a protestant in a catholic owned country in the 60's that level of discrimination meant you stood a great chance of facing a firing squad. 

 

You see the problem is when you focus on what the past owes you, you'll never see what the future can be. I'm sure your family saw some horrible stuff, but don't let it define you and how you view the world. I don't walk around thinking Catholics are my enemy loathing the very thought of them, I don't walk around expecting payment of acknowledgement for past sins against my family. We are entitled to nothing, not even a fair life or a fair chance at a good life, we become what we earn in the end.

---

OK...  So I'm just gonna try and say this as nicely as possible...  And I'm not trying to be smug or arrogant about this...

 

But for some reason, as I read these types of threads, the conservatives come off as though they are annoyed by slavery.  As though these discussions about what happened to black people throughout the history of the USA is some sort of inconvenience that the black people should be over because white people have moved on from it.

 

It's really weird to read how upset conservatives get when these types of talks come up.  I just don't understand it.  Again, I'm not being a jerk about it.  But it's clear that this issue is one that should be completely opposite.

 

Black people have a legitimate gripe, and yet it's the conservatives that seem to be really annoyed with even the discussion.  

---

OK... So I'm just gonna try and say this as nicely as possible... And I'm not trying to be smug or arrogant about this...


But for some reason, as I read these types of threads, the conservatives come off as though they are annoyed by slavery. As though these discussions about what happened to black people throughout the history of the USA is some sort of inconvenience that the black people should be over because white people have moved on from it.


It's really weird to read how upset conservatives get when these types of talks come up. I just don't understand it. Again, I'm not being a jerk about it. But it's clear that this issue is one that should be completely opposite.


Black people have a legitimate gripe, and yet it's the conservatives that seem to be really annoyed with even the discussion.

You're spot on. Conservatives will provide every excuse possible to avoid talking about black peoples historical inconvenience.

---

Is it the enslavement that warrants reparations or the disadvantages created because of it? 

 

If it's the latter, then I need a list of disadvantages that deserve monetary compensation because I'm pretty sure a lot of us may be on that list. 

---

What is your educational attainment?

When where you born?

What industry are you in?

Do you still live in Jacksonville?

I might answer your questions if you can provide me with two things.


Number one the relevancy of any of those things and number two where is my white privilege?

---

Is it the enslavement that warrants reparations or the disadvantages created because of it? 

 

If it's the latter, then I need a list of disadvantages that deserve monetary compensation because I'm pretty sure a lot of us may be on that list. 

 

I think the first step, is to begin to acknowledge that things like BLM have a legit gripe.  That the entirety of the history of black folks and the sytemic authority structure for like 75-85% of the history of the USA has been one which has worked and continues to work in some cases to make outcomes for black people much more difficult than for others.

 

Let's just start there...  I think the feesablility of 40 Acres and a Mule is not possible.  But let's begin with everyone just acknlowledging that black people still have it hard and it's based on hundreds of years of this thing called slavery.

 

And just leave it at that.  No need to go into a "yeah but..." with it.  Just acknlowledge it and don't get all annoyed about it.  I don't think that's too hard to do...  And I think it's a good start.  But what do I know?  I'm not black.  I'm just assuming that basic decensy and dignity would be something all men and women would like to have acknowledged.

---

This belongs here: The band sublime covered it back in the day - and Boney M made it a pop hit. I prefer the original.



-- Oh by the rivers of Babylon, where he sat down-


And there he wept, when he remembered Zion.


But the wicked carried us away in captivity -


Required from us, a song...


But how can we sing our song in a strange land?


So let the words from our mouth, and the meditation from our hearts-


Be acceptable in thy sight - here tonight...






Simple chords even I can play pretty well.

---

You're spot on. Conservatives will provide every excuse possible to avoid talking about black peoples historical inconvenience.

 

Based on your responses in this thread, I'm assuming you're black/African American...  Which do you prefer to be called?

 

I'm not a black guy, and I don't assume to know the struggle that goes on in any one man's life.  I just think that there's this level of at least acknowledgement that needs to begin with people that are of a conservative ideology.

 

I get the feeling that many conservitives get defensive that they are being blamed for the sins of the past.  I would assume that you don't blame all white people for slavery, right?  I'm also assuming that most black people don't blame all whites, right?

 

I mean, I could be wrong.  But that's just the feeling I get from the few guys I've talked to in depth about this issue that are African American.

---

Hey one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist. I distinctly remember splinter groups causing bombings in England while growing up. Lets face it the majority want to be part of Britain up there not Ireland.


Although we can probably blame Henry VIII for the tension in the first place.

My great uncle Micheal went to prison in England for 17 years for leading the failed bombing campaign in England 1939-1940 and I couldn't be more proud of him for doing what he did for his country.


His actual quote from the stand in the Old Bailey as he was about to sentenced was "I am not a criminal. I am fighting for the freedom of my country. For hundreds of years Irishmen have fought for freedom and will continue to do so as long as any part of the country is occupied by the British"


Don't need to go back that far to see the crimes of the British.

---

Does that take away from the fact this country practiced it for 245 years?

 

And yet we also ended slavery while it's still rampant throughout Africa, the Middle East, and southern Asia.  Not sure why we dont get any credit for that.

---

________________________________________________
Scouting well is all that matters.  Draft philosophy is all fluff.

You see the problem is when you focus on what the past owes you, you'll never see what the future can be. I'm sure your family saw some horrible stuff, but don't let it define you and how you view the world. I don't walk around thinking Catholics are my enemy loathing the very thought of them, I don't walk around expecting payment of acknowledgement for past sins against my family. We are entitled to nothing, not even a fair life or a fair chance at a good life, we become what we earn in the end.

This last paragraph stood out to me.  You can't move forward if you continue to look at the past.  No matter how tragic or unfair it might be.

---

Go Jags!
*To stay up for atleast 2 years 3/6/17
2016 draft players I think will be good

• On the Fournette train, will be best back of his class 3/6/17
  
• Lattimore please,  Lockdowns on both sides would be nice
  
• Engram at TE and the MJD clone Samaje Perine
  

My Grandfather was beaten within inches of his life, his families generational farm stolen from them, had to flee his home country because of his ethnicity and religious affiliation. He lost 6 Brothers to militias and 2 sisters before they made it out of Columbia. My other grandfather was denied work, housing and access to public utilities in Ontario again due to his religious affiliation. One doctor told him to switch churches or fail his physical allowing them to work the mines, the excuse they used was his stomach couldn't handle the fumes of the mine, so he had them put a metal plate in his abdomen and went to work.

 

Once either side came to America they faced all kinds of hardships. My non-English speaking Spanish migrant Grandfather saved for 13 years to make the trip (legally) with my mother her sister and his wife. Sure they faced typical stereotyping, some prejudice hell my Mother at age 15 carried a dictionary through High School as she taught herself English (there was translator in the 70's for her schooling). The other side came poor Irish-Canadian immigrants again my Father's side saved for 7 years to make the move down here so my Grandfather and Grandmother could take a factory line job. My Grandmother was spat on, her car vandalized, their home vandalized, and physically assaulted three times since they both crossed the picket line, immigrants couldn't afford to miss a shift at the factory because the union wanted to strike.

 

You think the discrimination was bad here in the 60's? Try being a protestant in a catholic owned country in the 60's that level of discrimination meant you stood a great chance of facing a firing squad. 

 

You see the problem is when you focus on what the past owes you, you'll never see what the future can be. I'm sure your family saw some horrible stuff, but don't let it define you and how you view the world. I don't walk around thinking Catholics are my enemy loathing the very thought of them, I don't walk around expecting payment of acknowledgement for past sins against my family. We are entitled to nothing, not even a fair life or a fair chance at a good life, we become what we earn in the end.

 

I'm always amazed by these posts. It's always the same story. Black person talks about the legacy of slavery, Jim Crow, institutionalized racism, discrimination, and civil rights and there is always some white person that attempts to make it seem like their history of oppression wasn't all that bad. It seems every time a black person tries to communicate these very real, tangible, historical struggles it is met with "But", "But" and accusations of victim mentality. Black people can't even have serious dialogues with some whites (mostly Conservatives), on race because these issues aren't even real to them. Whenever we do bring up race, we are chastised for playing the "race card". I don't know of a time I've ever brought up race and someone said, "Yea I can see that". You simply cannot have this discussion. It's like the wife who is consistently abused emotionally, but has a man that swears he is the nicest husband in the world. No matter how often she tells him, he always finds a way to reverse the blame. He can't even offer an apology because he simply refuses to acknowledge there is a problem. 

 

My three times great grandfather was a slave, working on a farm in the Deep South during the 1840s. He owned nothing, not even his own name. He had a wife and kids but they were slaves too (thank you Ancestry.com). He didn't have an option of leaving, or escaping persecution. His only option was to work and survive. That is it. There was no making it out of the confines of the Georgia farm that he labored on. Where would he go? If he ran a way he was a dead man walking. A black man can hide his thoughts but not his skin. He was what he was. When slavery ended, can you guess what he continued doing? He continued working on the farm because most blacks couldn't find anything other than unskilled work. Eventually, he made his way down to Florida. Hardships followed. He had my two times great grandfather sometime in the late 1890s, and he lived a long life of laboring. But he never owned anything. There are no records of how many times he was chastised, or called the N-Word, or beaten up, or harassed by racists. People in his day, and in his father's day had to be real careful what they uttered. At some point during, the Great Depression he had my Grandfather which was significantly worst for African Americans. Poverty was a way of life. Saving money was out of the question. Survival was all that mattered. My Grandfather eventually served in WW2 and Korea, and was able to make a decent life after. He bought a house in a quiet black neighborhood, but would always tell me about how badly whites treated him. You couldn't go to their pools, watch movies in their theaters, even looking at a white woman could get you in serious trouble. Trying to vote meant taking ridiculous tests. My father born in 1950, a full decade and a half before the Civil Rights era faced much of the same things. He told me many a time as a child how he'd go to public bathrooms and signs would say "Whites"and "Colored". A fountain would be in the middle. One pipe split into either direction. It was segregation at it's finest. My father struggled too. He worked hard, and studied as best as he could. Jacksonville had an extremely racist climate during the 1950 through 1970s but eventually he was able to land a job working with JEA and then Fire and Rescue in the mid 70s. He had a very long and successful career but that opportunity would likely not have been there without Affirmative Action. Whites simply controlled everything. My father didn't go to college. Many black families are just recently having college graduates (I will be the first to receive three degrees in science). Many are still fighting, clawing, and doing the best they can to be good Americans. We simply want to be happy and live in peace like everyone else and although racial tensions have cooled it seems that some of the hostility toward us is returning. Police brutality, multiple shootings, racist rhetoric from certain politicians. It's hard to understand unless you are black. 

---

Solid snake...people from Columbia are Hispanic.

---

What in the Wide Wide World of Sports is agoin' on here???

Solid snake...people from Columbia are Hispanic.

Colombia* is Hispanic


Columbia is the romanticized name of the United States.

---

Colombia* is Hispanic

Columbia is the romanticized name of the United States.

Nothing romanticized about not paying attention to my spelling, that's all on me.

---

What in the Wide Wide World of Sports is agoin' on here???

I'm always amazed by these posts. It's always the same story. Black person talks about the legacy of slavery, Jim Crow, institutionalized racism, discrimination, and civil rights and there is always some white person that attempts to make it seem like their history of oppression wasn't all that bad. It seems every time a black person tries to communicate these very real, tangible, historical struggles it is met with "But", "But" and accusations of victim mentality. Black people can't even have serious dialogues with some whites (mostly Conservatives), on race because these issues aren't even real to them. Whenever we do bring up race, we are chastised for playing the "race card". I don't know of a time I've ever brought up race and someone said, "Yea I can see that". You simply cannot have this discussion. It's like the wife who is consistently abused emotionally, but has a man that swears he is the nicest husband in the world. No matter how often she tells him, he always finds a way to reverse the blame. He can't even offer an apology because he simply refuses to acknowledge there is a problem.


My three times great grandfather was a slave, working on a farm in the Deep South during the 1840s. He owned nothing, not even his own name. He had a wife and kids but they were slaves too (thank you Ancestry.com). He didn't have an option of leaving, or escaping persecution. His only option was to work and survive. That is it. There was no making it out of the confines of the Georgia farm that he labored on. Where would he go? If he ran a way he was a dead man walking. A black man can hide his thoughts but not his skin. He was what he was. When slavery ended, can you guess what he continued doing? He continued working on the farm because most blacks couldn't find anything other than unskilled work. Eventually, he made his way down to Florida. Hardships followed. He had my two times great grandfather sometime in the late 1890s, and he lived a long life of laboring. But he never owned anything. There are no records of how many times he was chastised, or called the N-Word, or beaten up, or harassed by racists. People in his day, and in his father's day had to be real careful what they uttered. At some point during, the Great Depression he had my Grandfather which was significantly worst for African Americans. Poverty was a way of life. Saving money was out of the question. Survival was all that mattered. My Grandfather eventually served in WW2 and Korea, and was able to make a decent life after. He bought a house in a quiet black neighborhood, but would always tell me about how badly whites treated him. You couldn't go to their pools, watch movies in their theaters, even looking at a white woman could get you in serious trouble. Trying to vote meant taking ridiculous tests. My father born in 1950, a full decade and a half before the Civil Rights era faced much of the same things. He told me many a time as a child how he'd go to public bathrooms and signs would say "Whites"and "Colored". A fountain would be in the middle. One pipe split into either direction. It was segregation at it's finest. My father struggled too. He worked hard, and studied as best as he could. Jacksonville had an extremely racist climate during the 1950 through 1970s but eventually he was able to land a job working with JEA and then Fire and Rescue in the mid 70s. He had a very long and successful career but that opportunity would likely not have been there without Affirmative Action. Whites simply controlled everything. My father didn't go to college. Many black families are just recently having college graduates (I will be the first to receive three degrees in science). Many are still fighting, clawing, and doing the best they can to be good Americans. We simply want to be happy and live in peace like everyone else and although racial tensions have cooled it seems that some of the hostility toward us is returning. Police brutality, multiple shootings, racist rhetoric from certain politicians. It's hard to understand unless you are black.

Thank you for taking the time to write this.

---

I'm always amazed by these posts. It's always the same story. Black person talks about the legacy of slavery, Jim Crow, institutionalized racism, discrimination, and civil rights and there is always some white person that attempts to make it seem like their history of oppression wasn't all that bad. It seems every time a black person tries to communicate these very real, tangible, historical struggles it is met with "But", "But" and accusations of victim mentality. Black people can't even have serious dialogues with some whites (mostly Conservatives), on race because these issues aren't even real to them. Whenever we do bring up race, we are chastised for playing the "race card". I don't know of a time I've ever brought up race and someone said, "Yea I can see that". You simply cannot have this discussion. It's like the wife who is consistently abused emotionally, but has a man that swears he is the nicest husband in the world. No matter how often she tells him, he always finds a way to reverse the blame. He can't even offer an apology because he simply refuses to acknowledge there is a problem. 

 

My three times great grandfather was a slave, working on a farm in the Deep South during the 1840s. He owned nothing, not even his own name. He had a wife and kids but they were slaves too (thank you Ancestry.com). He didn't have an option of leaving, or escaping persecution. His only option was to work and survive. That is it. There was no making it out of the confines of the Georgia farm that he labored on. Where would he go? If he ran a way he was a dead man walking. A black man can hide his thoughts but not his skin. He was what he was. When slavery ended, can you guess what he continued doing? He continued working on the farm because most blacks couldn't find anything other than unskilled work. Eventually, he made his way down to Florida. Hardships followed. He had my two times great grandfather sometime in the late 1890s, and he lived a long life of laboring. But he never owned anything. There are no records of how many times he was chastised, or called the N-Word, or beaten up, or harassed by racists. People in his day, and in his father's day had to be real careful what they uttered. At some point during, the Great Depression he had my Grandfather which was significantly worst for African Americans. Poverty was a way of life. Saving money was out of the question. Survival was all that mattered. My Grandfather eventually served in WW2 and Korea, and was able to make a decent life after. He bought a house in a quiet black neighborhood, but would always tell me about how badly whites treated him. You couldn't go to their pools, watch movies in their theaters, even looking at a white woman could get you in serious trouble. Trying to vote meant taking ridiculous tests. My father born in 1950, a full decade and a half before the Civil Rights era faced much of the same things. He told me many a time as a child how he'd go to public bathrooms and signs would say "Whites"and "Colored". A fountain would be in the middle. One pipe split into either direction. It was segregation at it's finest. My father struggled too. He worked hard, and studied as best as he could. Jacksonville had an extremely racist climate during the 1950 through 1970s but eventually he was able to land a job working with JEA and then Fire and Rescue in the mid 70s. He had a very long and successful career but that opportunity would likely not have been there without Affirmative Action. Whites simply controlled everything. My father didn't go to college. Many black families are just recently having college graduates (I will be the first to receive three degrees in science). Many are still fighting, clawing, and doing the best they can to be good Americans. We simply want to be happy and live in peace like everyone else and although racial tensions have cooled it seems that some of the hostility toward us is returning. Police brutality, multiple shootings, racist rhetoric from certain politicians. It's hard to understand unless you are black. 

I see your argument and point but it is not 1840, 1890, 1920, 1950, or 1970 anymore there are opportunities to be had.  For the most part anyone of working age today has had equal opportunity.  Affirmative action is not a fix all but its a step in the right direction.  Police have targeted your communities and that does need to be dealt with but there is no one saying you can't go to a school because its whites only or holding anyone back from going to a library to learn.  There is nothing stopping anyone from joining the military and getting training there.  If police truly are the enemy and you feel all they are trying to do is get you in trouble for no good reason then stay the hell away from the police.  The older generations did not have the opportunity people have today but today the opportunity is there for the taking.


If hostility is returning its because of groups like black lives matter or seeing large groups of black people burning down cities.  The other problem is just about  every city you burn down turns out to be for a guy whose actions got him shot, not his skin color.  I'll agree the Tulsa cop was completely overzealous with her shooting and Eric Garner in Ny were killed completely unjustly.  Some of these other shootings though.  Man with a weapon attacking clerk..  felon with a gun brandishing towards officer, felon with a gun repeatedly told to put the gun down.  What the heck did they expect to happen?


Yeah there are problems but at the same time there are things this country is doing right.


Maybe its because I'm only 31 and I didn't live through times when blacks were not equals but I don't see the persecution.  I don't see cops going around rounding up all the black people and bragging to their friends about holding them back.  I don't see the families snickering about an interracial couple in the stores.


No one can change the past and it is on everyone to fix the future but to continue to complain about something out of your control generations removed seems like a waste of effort.  Compared to taking the opportunity they didn't have and running with it.

---

Go Jags!
*To stay up for atleast 2 years 3/6/17
2016 draft players I think will be good

• On the Fournette train, will be best back of his class 3/6/17
  
• Lattimore please,  Lockdowns on both sides would be nice
  
• Engram at TE and the MJD clone Samaje Perine
  

I see your argument and point but it is not 1840, 1890, 1920, 1950, or 1970 anymore there are opportunities to be had.  For the most part anyone of working age today has had equal opportunity.  Affirmative action is not a fix all but its a step in the right direction.  Police have targeted your communities and that does need to be dealt with but there is no one saying you can't go to a school because its whites only or holding anyone back from going to a library to learn.  There is nothing stopping anyone from joining the military and getting training there.  If police truly are the enemy and you feel all they are trying to do is get you in trouble for no good reason then stay the hell away from the police.  The older generations did not have the opportunity people have today but today the opportunity is there for the taking.


If hostility is returning its because of groups like black lives matter or seeing large groups of black people burning down cities.  The other problem is just about  every city you burn down turns out to be for a guy whose actions got him shot, not his skin color.  I'll agree the Tulsa cop was completely overzealous with her shooting and Eric Garner in Ny were killed completely unjustly.  Some of these other shootings though.  Man with a weapon attacking clerk..  felon with a gun brandishing towards officer, felon with a gun repeatedly told to put the gun down.  What the heck did they expect to happen?


Yeah there are problems but at the same time there are things this country is doing right.


Maybe its because I'm only 31 and I didn't live through times when blacks were not equals but I don't see the persecution.  I don't see cops going around rounding up all the black people and bragging to their friends about holding them back.  I don't see the families snickering about an interracial couple in the stores.


No one can change the past and it is on everyone to fix the future but to continue to complain about something out of your control generations removed seems like a waste of effort.  Compared to taking the opportunity they didn't have and running with it.

You, me, and almost everyone else here can say whatever and it won't matter because some folks already have their minds made up that unless we're black we will never understand any kind of hardship, pain or suffering at all. Because according to them only they can suffer, have any hardship or pain- ever. They have no interest in doing anything other than crying in their beer for things that didn't even happen to them personally but feel they are are owed nonetheless. They have no interest in moving forward and will forever be bitter and angry toward people not of their race. It's sad, really, but I'm done with this. 

---

You, me, and almost everyone else here can say whatever and it won't matter because some folks already have their minds made up that unless we're black we will never understand any kind of hardship, pain or suffering at all. Because according to them only they can suffer, have any hardship or pain- ever. They have no interest in doing anything other than crying in their beer for things that didn't even happen to them personally but feel they are are owed nonetheless. They have no interest in moving forward and will forever be bitter and angry toward people not of their race. It's sad, really, but I'm done with this.

You pretty much spoke for me as well.. Nice post..

---

You pretty much spoke for me as well.. Nice post..

 

This is the argument that I just don't understand.  Where in any of the discussions that Rashean or Solid provided in this thread created an atmosphere that white people can't or don't want to understand the struggle.  Maybe I missed it, but neither of them have used words which come off as antagonistic or ostracizing to the entire race of white people.  

 

Is it possible that conservatives just cannot remove themselves from the guilt of America's sins, maybe?  When someone tells you a story about thier experience, it's not an indictment of your innaction or apathy, or anything.  

 

"They have no interest in moving forward".  You created a straw man to be upset with.  An entire group of black people that you can then equate to being the problem, and therefore you are no longer the problem when it comes to their struggles.  This type of straw man allows one to remove themselves from the discussion and thus maintain thier own opinions without considering the opinions and experiences of those that may challenge those opinions.  

 

There are two black people that are discussing this issue right here, and are not indicting or even looking to attack white people.  They are just discussing the struggle.  Why ignore the two people you are actually discussing this topic with?  You are making blanket statements that are clearly false based on the fact that 2 black people have several times mentioned they are moving forward in this very thread. 

 

However, the history is long, entrenched, and still affecting the present.  Moving forward begins with acknowledgement.  It seems like that's something Conservatives have a hard time doing.  

 

Again, just my observations.  But as an outside observer, it's just weird to read this thread.  It seems that Rashean and Solid are trying to explain their experience, and the conservatives are talking right past them.

---