There is no OT close to being worth a top 5 pick in this draft right now. Cam Robinson has off the field issues and some serious problems on the field. He's like a mid/late 1st imo. Generally, most have mocked him there too.

 

What other guys do you seriously think is worth top 5? This draft has a lot of talent but unless Barnett and Tim Williams show out, what DL/OL do you see? We obviously aren't going QB top 5 unless a coach drastically changes Caldwell's opinion.

 

You aren't going to say "no way in hell" to a SS at 3 or 4 if he's "fine" to take at 5. That's just dumb. If there is prospects forcing him to have a ceiling at 5, fine, but otherwise...

 

 

True...he was close. 

 

SS is a lot different right now than it was 10 years ago too. Look at the difference Kam makes on the seahawks. I wouldnt be upset with Adams at all. If he meets his potential he is easily worth the 3. 

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Coughlin when asked if winning will be a focus: "What the hell else is there? This is nice and dandy, but winning is what all this is about."

That's my point.


There's no ifs ands or buts about it I think Barnett will be the pick if both Allen and Garrett are gone. And againt, if any DB gets drafted with our 3rd overall pick, it should be Malik Hooker, not Jamal Adams.

I like Hooker more than Adams too, but he isn't coming out. He's clearly stated it time and time again. I don't think Adams is far behind him though. He is definitely an elite prospect at SS.

 

I love Barnett and I hope he jumps up boards, but currently most put him in the 10-20 range. 

 

What you are saying is to go by need/position instead of talent. I don't think that is how Caldwell is going to approach this draft with what has happened previously when he seems to have done that. Fowler (I like Fowler a lot still, just saying) over Leonard Williams due to Williams at Marks/Odrick's position. Bortles due to needing a QB at 3. Joeckel at the top to help build the line for the QB of the future (he was BPA though I'd say in that draft at the time, hindsight is 20/20).

 

Last year, he luckily was able to grab a guy at a position of need but also the best player available clearly. I think we're better off going that route in the 1st. Go ahead and go a bit for need while not reaching too much in rds 2 and on. Not in the 1st.

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so 5 is ok to draft an elite safety but you dont wanna take that elite safety at 3 because he is a safety? seems a little ignorant and short sighted. 

It is. I hate when people are like this.

 

If the guy is an elite talent, who the hell cares. 

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SS is a lot different right now than it was 10 years ago too. Look at the difference Kam makes on the seahawks. I wouldnt be upset with Adams at all. If he meets his potential he is easily worth the 3. 

Yup. The thing is, he's not just an in the box guy either. He is actually quite solid in coverage. I've been watching a good amount of him with the anticipation of Allen/Garrett being gone...although unless the Bears jump us, I expect Allen to be there.

 

SF taking Allen would be odd. I'm usually not to big on passing on a talent no matter what is on the roster, but just drafting Buckner and Armstead would basically put them in an NYJ situation. I see them going QB or looking elsewhere.

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so 5 is ok to draft an elite safety but you dont wanna take that elite safety at 3 because he is a safety? seems a little ignorant and short sighted.

I'm talking about what's likely and what's not likely. Adams is not getting picked by us at 3 based on the history of the draft, that is my point. We go through this every year. If there is a pass rusher worth a top 10 pick then he has more value than a DB worth a top 10 pick, it is the way it is. It's the same reason Bosa went ahead of Ramsey. I would much rather have an elite edge rusher in Barnett than an elite SS in Adams (who I'm not buying is elite but whatever).
 
As for SS making a difference, no it doesn't. Kam is the tone setter on their defense and the leader, has nothing to do with his position, it's about him. If you're banking on getting the next Kam Chancellor by drafting Jamal Adams then you have the wrong draft philosophy going into the draft.
 
 

I like Hooker more than Adams too, but he isn't coming out. He's clearly stated it time and time again. I don't think Adams is far behind him though. He is definitely an elite prospect at SS.
 
I love Barnett and I hope he jumps up boards, but currently most put him in the 10-20 range. 
 
What you are saying is to go by need/position instead of talent. I don't think that is how Caldwell is going to approach this draft with what has happened previously when he seems to have done that. Fowler (I like Fowler a lot still, just saying) over Leonard Williams due to Williams at Marks/Odrick's position. Bortles due to needing a QB at 3. Joeckel at the top to help build the line for the QB of the future (he was BPA though I'd say in that draft at the time, hindsight is 20/20).
 
Last year, he luckily was able to grab a guy at a position of need but also the best player available clearly. I think we're better off going that route in the 1st. Go ahead and go a bit for need while not reaching too much in rds 2 and on. Not in the 1st.

 I'm not buying Hooker isn't declaring. He said "for right now" he is going back to school and is not making a decision until the season is over after which he will talk to his family and "what happens happens". The guy is coming out. 
 
What I am saying is that the NFL is going to choose a pass rusher 10 times out of 10 over a DB and if there isn't one obviously there then they will choose a guy to jump up draft boards. It's the same thing that happened with Fowler in 2015. Fowler was a projected mid-late first round pick for the longest until after February. There is a pattern and formula to the draft I don't understand how people who have been following this for years still don't get it. I'm not just talking about you guys, but "professionals" as well.
 

It is. I hate when people are like this.
 
If the guy is an elite talent, who the hell cares.

The NFL.

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"A man with no sauce is lost.

<p style="text-align:center;">But that same man can get lost in the sauce."

I'm talking about what's likely and what's not likely. Adams is not getting picked by us at 3 based on the history of the draft, that is my point. We go through this every year. If there is a pass rusher worth a top 10 pick then he has more value than a DB worth a top 10 pick, it is the way it is. It's the same reason Bosa went ahead of Ramsey. I would much rather have an elite edge rusher in Barnett than an elite SS in Adams (who I'm not buying is elite but whatever).

 

As for SS making a difference, no it doesn't. Kam is the tone setter on their defense and the leader, has nothing to do with his position, it's about him. If you're banking on getting the next Kam Chancellor by drafting Jamal Adams then you have the wrong draft philosophy going into the draft.

 

 

 I'm not buying Hooker isn't declaring. He said "for right now" he is going back to school and is not making a decision until the season is over after which he will talk to his family and "what happens happens". The guy is coming out. 

 

What I am saying is that the NFL is going to choose a pass rusher 10 times out of 10 over a DB and if there isn't one obviously there then they will choose a guy to jump up draft boards. It's the same thing that happened with Fowler in 2015. Fowler was a projected mid-late first round pick for the longest until after February. There is a pattern and formula to the draft I don't understand how people who have been following this for years still don't get it. I'm not just talking about you guys, but "professionals" as well.

 

The NFL.

Again, there hasn't been another S prospect on Adams level since Berry. Each draft is different. You keep saying Barnett but currently, no one see's him that high nor views him as an elite talent. If he was, he wouldn't be thought of in the range people are saying.

 

Things can change, but currently, I don't see Barnett getting taken top 5.

 

The NFL also used to say RT's wouldn't get taken top 5. Same with OG's. Well Tunsil played LG last year and Lane Johnson was taken to play RT opposite Peters a couple years ago. Things are changing. 

 

Adams would bring a big hitting Safety that plays good in coverage. That would be HUGE on the back end.

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Im not buying Adams as the best safety to come out since Berry.

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Collins was better in coverage, more of a ball hawk and just as good against the run imo

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As much as i like Adams, i think Mark Barron was a better prospect as well

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Collins was better in coverage, more of a ball hawk and just as good against the run imo

I don't remember many people liking Collins in coverage. Most had him as a VERY good run stuffer, but questions in coverage.

 

This draft is lacking in QB's but it's a strong draft. Yet Adams is being consistently mocked for the most part top 5-8.

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I don't remember many people liking Collins in coverage. Most had him as a VERY good run stuffer, but questions in coverage.


This draft is lacking in QB's but it's a strong draft. Yet Adams is being consistently mocked for the most part top 5-8.

Collins played a lot of single high safety his last year at Ala like Earl Thomas plays and excelled

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Collins played a lot of single high safety his last year at Ala like Earl Thomas plays and excelled

WEAKNESSES  Average hands. Dropped easy interceptions against Texas A&M and Arkansas. Looked much quicker in 2013 than he did in 2014. Can be beaten in a foot race. Average recovery speed. Sometimes shows too much confidence in recovery speed. Gets caught peeking into backfield and can be beaten over the top after a late jump. Inconsistent route recognition. Beaten for game-tying and game-winning touchdowns by Ole Miss. Shows some hip stiffness when asked to open up and run. Might be carrying too much bulk. DRAFT PROJECTION  

 

Round 1 NFL COMPARISON  Johnathan Cyprien BOTTOM LINE

 

Collins is a tempo-setter who can energize a defense with his downhill, aggressive style. He is at his best when he can attack rather than sit back in coverage and process. Collins' tackling, pursuit angles and speed to the sideline can help a defense shut down rushing attacks, but his inconsistencies in coverage will be tested by NFL offenses.

 

                                     

 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/l...id=2552454

 

 

<p style="color:rgb(17,17,17);font-family:'proxima-nova', Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>WEAKNESSES:</b> Trusts his eyes and can be deceived with good play-action or by savvy quarterbacks who will look one way and fire the other. Much more effective coming downhill in run support or protecting the middle on crossing routes than with his back turned to the quarterback. Possesses good but not elite speed and doesn't show the burst to recover when beaten initially. Doesn't possess great hands for the interception, dropping multiple potential interceptions over his career. Struggles of past Saban-coached defensive backs in the NFL is reason for concern.

<p style="color:rgb(17,17,17);font-family:'proxima-nova', Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"> 

<p style="color:rgb(17,17,17);font-family:'proxima-nova', Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Compares To: T.J. Ward, Broncos - If allowed to attack, Collins' aggression, physicality and knack for creating big plays could lead to him becoming a star in the NFL. He isn't a top-notch cover safety, however, and therefore should be complemented with other speedier options in the secondary.

 

<p style="color:rgb(17,17,17);font-family:'proxima-nova', Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"> 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/playe...on-collins

 

Collins isn't like Earl Thomas when it comes to coverage skills even today.

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Adams is fantastic if Garrett and Allen are gone I would be just fine with him or Tim Williams or maaaybe Barnett as the pick. I might like Williams more than Allen even to be honest. 

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<a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/landon-collins?id=2552454'>http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/landon-collins?id=2552454</a>



<a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/2000901/landon-collins'>http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/2000901/landon-collins</a>


Collins isn't like Earl Thomas when it comes to coverage skills even today.

Who said his coverage skills is like Earl Thomas? Cmon man, i know you can read better than that. I said he played a lot of the same single high safety that Thomas does in Seatle in his last year at Ala. and excelled at it. Might be some of the worst scouting reports i have seen lol

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Who said his coverage skills is like Earl Thomas? Cmon man, i know you can read better than that. I said he played a lot of the same single high safety that Thomas does in Seatle in his last year at Ala. and excelled at it. Might be some of the worst scouting reports i have seen lol

Landon Collins was widely viewed as a guy who struggled in coverage with bad hands but is going to lay wood when it comes to run support. Literally don't remember anyone saying he excelled in the role you suggested (I read what you said wrong regardling Earl Thomas). 


I remember people saying he did decent in zone coverage for the most part. But the single high safety aspect you talk about? I just remember hearing how he got burned a lot. I didn't watch a ton of Bama games but most thought that class was weak as heck when it came to safety. Most thought he'd go mid/late 1st, but I know the Giants had a huge safety problem prior to getting Collins.


Regardless, I'm pretty sure prospect wise I'd take what Adams was prior compared to what people generally said about Landon Collins.

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I'd be really disappointed if the draft were to go like this, but disappointment is nothing new to a Jaguars fan.

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Landon Collins was widely viewed as a guy who struggled in coverage with bad hands but is going to lay wood when it comes to run support. Literally don't remember anyone saying he excelled in the role you suggested (I read what you said wrong regardling Earl Thomas).

I remember people saying he did decent in zone coverage for the most part. But the single high safety aspect you talk about? I just remember hearing how he got burned a lot. I didn't watch a ton of Bama games but most thought that class was weak as heck when it came to safety. Most thought he'd go mid/late 1st, but I know the Giants had a huge safety problem prior to getting Collins.

Regardless, I'm pretty sure prospect wise I'd take what Adams was prior compared to what people generally said about Landon Collins.

here is a good article on Collins, out of over 900 snaps, 490 of them were at high safety. He was a huge part why that Ala defense was so good. He flew all over the place. It is showing this year why teams regret passing on him

<a class="bbc_url" href='https://www.profootballfocus.com/cff-player-profile-landon-collins-s/'>https://www.profootballfocus.com/cff-player-profile-landon-collins-s/</a>

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Man Adams is not the best safety prospect since Berry. He isn't even the best safety prospect THIS YEAR.

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"A man with no sauce is lost.

<p style="text-align:center;">But that same man can get lost in the sauce."

Adams is fantastic if Garrett and Allen are gone I would be just fine with him or Tim Williams or maaaybe Barnett as the pick. I might like Williams more than Allen even to be honest.

Apparently Williams has some off field stuff that could seriously drop him. Also, when I watch him on tape, he seems to struggle to bend at times. Barnett is by far the best edge bender in this class.

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"A man with no sauce is lost.

<p style="text-align:center;">But that same man can get lost in the sauce."

<a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/sd-sp-nfl-mock-draft-2017-first-round-20161221-story.html'>http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/sd-sp-nfl-mock-draft-2017-first-round-20161221-story.html</a>


If the draft fell like this and Dave couldnt get any good trade offers who would you guys take in the 1st and 2nd round? My wish is Dave can get a decent trade back offer staying in the top 10 and picking up an extra 2nd round pick. If not and it falls like this who do yall got in the first 2 rounds?

I agree about trading down for a 2nd if Garrett and Allen are gone.


I'd look at Barnett, Williams, and maybe Foster. I'd then move back into the 1st for Foreman if he is within reach

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